Cambelt life

[56vrs]

Hi

I know the dealers try and persuade you to replace your cambelt after 4 years with tales of massive engine repair bills, and it was common place for neglected engines in the 1990s for engines to let go, but is it really the case today?

The Ford Mondano belt is said to last 100k miles, so why not the Octavia?

The manufactures must have improved the quality of the components in this time.

Are the dealers just being over cautious and making a nice tidy profit on an £15 rubber belt and 4+ hours of labour?

How many people have actually had a cambelt let go or tensioner/waterpump cause a top end failure?

What is the longest time or mileage someone has gone without having the belt replaced?

If it does go, is it the belt, tensioner or water pump that goes first?

Does anyone know anyone whose engine has lunched from a cambelt failure in a VRS.

Well I am going to run with mine for at least 5 years, I will look at the condition this year when it is 4 years and only get it replaced if it is cracking up. It still looks new now.

I intend to keep my car for 10 years and keep it out of the dealers as much as possible by doing as much as the servicing myself.

When its 10 years old the price difference between a car with full service history and one that has not is a lot less than the cost all those services.

We need to know the truth.

What do you think....

[rotodiesel]

The VAG "4 year" rule is a UK generated scam. It doesn't appear in the printed service literature supplied with the vehicle and it seemingly doesn't apply anywhere else in the world.

I changed the cambelt, tensioner, idler and water pump on my AWX-engined Superb after 5 years. It was a complete waste of time and materials. The only marginal component was the small belt idler which was dry and a bit rattly due to the grease being centrifuged out of it. As it's very lightly loaded, it hardly matters. It's well worth fitting a pattern water pump when this job is done though.

I used to test engines for a living and have seen hundreds of belt drives. I would suggest 60k miles or 6 years for a PD cambelt but would happily run one to 80k if pushed. Fit only a Conti belt, Litens tensioner and INA idler. (All included in the Conti kit from ECP).

Watch the stated torque/tightening specification for the tensioner stud. There's a real risk of pulling the stud out if you adopt VAG's figures.

rotodiesel.

[stevensmith91]

Hi

I know the dealers try and persuade you to replace your cambelt after 4 years with tales of massive engine repair bills, and it was common place for neglected engines in the 1990s for engines to let go, but is it really the case today?

The Ford Mondano belt is said to last 100k miles, so why not the Octavia?

The manufactures must have improved the quality of the components in this time.

Are the dealers just being over cautious and making a nice tidy profit on an £15 rubber belt and 4+ hours of labour?

How many people have actually had a cambelt let go or tensioner/waterpump cause a top end failure?

What is the longest time or mileage someone has gone without having the belt replaced?

If it does go, is it the belt, tensioner or water pump that goes first?

Does anyone know anyone whose engine has lunched from a cambelt failure in a VRS.

Well I am going to run with mine for at least 5 years, I will look at the condition this year when it is 4 years and only get it replaced if it is cracking up. It still looks new now.

I intend to keep my car for 10 years and keep it out of the dealers as much as possible by doing as much as the servicing myself.

When its 10 years old the price difference between a car with full service history and one that has not is a lot less than the cost all those services.

We need to know the truth.

What do you think....

Looking at the condition of a cambelt will tell you nothing , I have seen them breaking and when examined there was no sign of any cracks or degradation , just the fact it was 1 year past the date it should have been changed but the car owner deluded himself into thinking that because the vehicle was low mileage (33,000 miles) at 7 years of age it would be ok .

The bill to repair the damage was eye watering , served him right for being to tight fisted to pay for the belt to be changed after being alerted to the fact it was due

[rotodiesel]

It is quite easy to assess the condition of these components if you have the necessary experience - otherwise you could never do any component life testing.

Apart from this, how do you explain the lack of the "4 year rule" in the printed service literature supplied with the vehicle and the fact that this time limit seems only to apply in the UK?

VAG M-K must think the Brits are mugs for falling for it. Brilliant scam - scare tactics never fail.

rotodiesel.

[darrenw]

Like anything, you are free to choose whether you change it at 4 years or not.

If you don't and your engine is reduced to a lump of scrap, please post lots of pictures and a copy of the repair bill.

[mac1944]

Hi

I am just browsing this site because, as a pensioner, I am wrestling with the same problem. My 2006 Octavia Elegance 1.9 diesel has 25,500 miles and is 4 and half years old. It tends to be used for gentle trips of 50 or 80 miles with not many stop start journeys. I tend to drive everywhere pitching the rev counter on max torque (2000 ish, and seldom up the 3000rpm) and end up with around 60mpg plus.

Like 56vrs I intend to keep the vehicle indefinitely and I’d love to believe his point of view – but I’m nervous – and realize that I aught to be doing something about the cam belt (and water pump?). A local garage who advertises that they specialize in VAG vehicle services have quoted me around £350 for a genuine VAG cam belt fitted, whereas a capable one man garage offers to fit the cam belt for £80 if I provide the cam belt kit. Am I being prudent or frivolous and do I search out the cost of genuine Skoda kit from a main dealer parts dept., on the basis that German parts are better? (Or is this another tale to which we’ve become conditioned to believe) Or do I pick up SKF or ContiTech for £90 + £35 and potentially get the job done for £205

Edited 29 September, 2010 by mac1944

[mac1944]

[Hi

I am just browsing this site because, as a pensioner, I am wrestling with the same problem. My 2006 Octavia Elegance 1.9 diesel has 25,500 miles and is 4 and half years old. It tends to be used for gentle trips of 50 or 80 miles with not many stop start journeys. I tend to drive everywhere pitching the rev counter on max torque (2000 ish, and seldom up the 3000rpm) and end up with around 60mpg plus.

Like 56vrs I intend to keep the vehicle indefinitely and I’d love to believe his point of view – but I’m nervous – and realize that I aught to be doing something about the cam belt (and water pump?). A local garage who advertises that they specialize in VAG vehicle services have quoted me around £350 for a genuine VAG cam belt fitted, whereas a capable one man garage offers to fit the cam belt for £80 if I provide the cam belt kit. Am I being prudent or frivolous and do I search out the cost of genuine Skoda kit from a main dealer parts dept., on the basis that German parts are better? (Or is this another tale to which we’ve become conditioned to believe) Or do I pick up SKF or ContiTech for £90 + £35 and potentially get the job done for £205

[pinkcupra]

From the experience of someone I know don't skimp on this, belt alone may be £40 but a failure @ 17k on a Leon TFSI shoould not be taken lightly.......

Obviously you can make you own decisions but my friend would happily of paid for the job @ 4yrs only to find by good fortune Mr Warranty replaced the complete engine.

[xman]

From what I read it was usually the tensioner or roller that fails. VAG had some very poor quality cheap plastic based designs in the early 2000's - the water pump with the plastic impeller that detaches being a classic.

As for those 1.8T engines - IIRC it was the tensioner on the short VVT chain that fails and screws the engine and not the cambelt. VAG have a bit of history of poor tensioner design (e.g. pre 2004 1.2 3cyl cars) - their camchains are hydraulically tensioned by oil pressure and if your oil is low and you lose pressure going round a corner too fast.........*****

Only the UK has the 4 year rule as a result of failures in the early 2000's on PD engines. If you tell a european dealer about the 4 year rule they will look at you as if you are pulling their legs.....

VAG UK have put the rule in place to wash their hands of any liability beyond 4 years.

Continental claim their belts are lifetime components and I for one accept their claims.

Please note there is also some evidence on other forums to suggest engine problems are quite common after a cambelt change, particularly when using independents, as they dont follow procedures or have the required training/knowledge and the timing gets cocked up.

[roadhawk]

Absolutely agree with xman i used 1 man band and had a tensioner snap 4 days after job was done for being over tightened very lucky belt only jumped 6 teeth had it been 7/8 goodbye cylinder head.

Was also told if genuine belt and tensioner kit is supplied it carrys the 4 year 60k warranty with it so any damage to engine occuring due to cam belt failer VAG will cover the damage.

Patterns do not carry this guarantee apparently.

[andyvee]

Just had mine done - geniune VAG parts (full kit) and an indy to fit. Cost me £240 including the water pump (genuine, metal impellor) and fresh antifreeze.

The old belt looked like new after 40K since last change BUT showed signs of stretching as the muppets (main dealer!) who fitted the last belt didn't set the tensioner correctly. It had run 40K on absolute full tension on the belt!!

Having a had a cam belt go on me many years ago anyone who ignores the service interval does so at their peril. I don't think 4 years is an unreasonable interval for a belt change, but nowadays surely 6 or even 8 shouldn't be a problem, depending on mileage.

Personally 6 years or 60k would seem reasonable if you don't mind taking a risk.

[JohnMorr]

Had mine done at 4 years - better safe than sorry. But it did seem very early - never had anything like that with previous cars - what do other manufacturers recommend? And am I right in thinking that chain cam drives go on for ever? If so, why don't VAG fit them?

[kenbo]

Had mine done at 4 years - better safe than sorry. But it did seem very early - never had anything like that with previous cars - what do other manufacturers recommend? And am I right in thinking that chain cam drives go on for ever? If so, why don't VAG fit them?

Chain Drives, while generally safer, can also break. Certain VW engines (6 cyl I believe) were prone to go, as were some of the 2.2 Vauxhall engines. I was advised by a friend to avoid the 2.0 VAG engine when looking for a Skoda as some of these were chain drive direct from the crankshaft and prone to failure. He had got caught twice for replacement engines on cars he had sold and since only buys 1.9's (Diesels)

I replaced the belt on my 2008 Octavia myself at 93,000 miles as the Main Dealer thought the interval was 120000 miles and hadn't done it for the previous owner. For the 1.9 PD engine it's a reasonably straight forward job if you know of a good independent mechanic. To me there's no excuse for tensioning wrongly as the tensioner is spring loaded and you tighten it until two marks line up.

[cheezemonkhai]

The 2.0 TDI has a cambelt, just like the 1.9TDI, so that's not correct I'm afraid.

In terms of the belt, I had it done at 4 years and just a touch under 80k miles, which I had no issue with as it was a reasonable mileage.

I have to say that of the PSA cars I've owned, they only seem to have specify a mileage, although you will notice that the services were x miles or 1 year apart, which would mean that when the x mile service was done, there was implicitly a time limit of n years. Saying that I don't remember the belts ever being less than 60'000 miles apart, so that would be a fair number of years on the old 5-6k service intervals.

[sdwilliams72]

Had my vRS Mk 1 belt changed after 6 years and 70'000 miles

I was told I was lucky as the water pump fell apart as they removed it

So I was told, I never saw the part as it had been binned by the time i got there

Steve

[skodafang]

My wifes Altea FR TDI PD has a change interval of 80,000 miles or 4 years.

[xman]

Had my vRS Mk 1 belt changed after 6 years and 70'000 miles

I was told I was lucky as the water pump fell apart as they removed it

So I was told, I never saw the part as it had been binned by the time i got there

Steve

No, VAG were lucky that you didnt suffer a serious and expensive breakdown due entirely to poor design/manufacturing quality that might have put you off the VAG brand completely.

[mac1944]

[Thank you to everyone who kindly took time to offer their point of view. I have decided to book car in for next Wednesday and have proper job done!!

[sherlocks VRS]

[Thank you to everyone who kindly took time to offer their point of view. I have decided to book car in for next Wednesday and have proper job done!!

Good man, I work in a skoda main dealership and i fit cambelts on a daily basis and i would strongly stick to the intervals as ive seen the aftermath of belt failures and its not a pretty sight. have a waterpump fitted as well as the impellors do fall apart. There is an awfull lot of opinions regarding belt life and i do agree that other manufactures have different intervals, and yes vag may be sideing on caution but when you see a octy vrs tfsi with holes in the pistons where the valves have tried to kiss the gudgeon pin due to belt failure you can see why. look at it another way you pay £250. - £300 pounds now or take the advise of other people on here who say leave it it will be ok and then get a bill for 2 to 3k when it ends in tears as it fails. At the end of the day my friend its your car your money and your choice.

[andyvee]

Had mine done at 4 years - better safe than sorry. But it did seem very early - never had anything like that with previous cars - what do other manufacturers recommend? And am I right in thinking that chain cam drives go on for ever? If so, why don't VAG fit them?

I used to work at a Vauxhall main dealers in the early 90's and most Vauxhalls were 40k or 4 years at that point, but then magically out of the blue IIRC they bacame at 80K overnight on the same engines with the same belt.

Go figure!

[sherlocks VRS]

Had mine done at 4 years - better safe than sorry. But it did seem very early - never had anything like that with previous cars - what do other manufacturers recommend? And am I right in thinking that chain cam drives go on for ever? If so, why don't VAG fit them?

Some chain drives have service intervals as well, Ford twin cams fitted in the sierras and scorpios were chain driven and had a replacement interval of 100,000 miles, My mate drives a Renault espase v6 petrol and the cambelt will be a nightmare as the engine and box has got to be removed as its imposible to get to, Big money.

[jalopy]

How many people have actually had a cambelt let go or tensioner/waterpump cause a top end failure?

I had a tensioner go recently. But it wasn't the old one, oh no. It was 11 months old and had done 17,000 miles. This was a Goodyear kit using a Litens tensioner (the part that failed).

I wrote to Litens some time ago enclosing photographs and have heard precisely nothing from them.

Two months before the MoT man commented how good the engine was and how exceptionally low the emissions were.

Not any more

The moral? I'm undecided but in this case I certainly wished I'd not bothered changing the belt and tensioners! The old ones looked absolutely fine.

Does anyone know whether VAG factory fit Litens?

[eccleshill]

OUCH!!!

Similar thing happened to a guy I work with a few years ago. He had his Audi diesel cambelt changed by an Audi dealer and 500 miles later the tensioner disintegrated at motorway speed and the engine was totally wrecked - con rod through the block - the lot!! I'm pretty sure he had an independant engineer involved from the start because diagnosing what had caused the failure was not an easy task! I think the case finally collapsed for Audi when they "lost" various components that they had insisted were sent to them for examination. It took him over a year of fighting but in the end he got a complete new engine out of Audi.

Doesn't always happen that way though. About 5yrs ago my trusty 8yr old Punto was taken for service and MOT. As it had done 80k miles I asked for the cambelt to be changed but only if it passed the MOT without too much to spend.

The cambelt snapped when the mechanic started it up to drive it into the MOT bay. Luckily the 1100 Punto engine is a non-interference engine and no damage was done.

It sailed through the MOT and a year later after I was offered a pi$$potical £150 part ex I gave it to my daughter who got another 2 years out of it. Final cause of death was still not the engine but a catastrophic electrical failure coupled with suspension bushes, CV joints and more :'(

Edited 3 November, 2010 by eccleshill

[Aspman]

Just had mine done - geniune VAG parts (full kit) and an indy to fit. Cost me £240 including the water pump (genuine, metal impellor) and fresh antifreeze.

For £240 it's a no-brainer even if 4yr does seem a bit early. Good price that.

When it's £400-500 I can understand why people think twice.

I'll be searching out a good indy unless my Skoda dealer is feeling generous with his quotes.

Edited 3 November, 2010 by Aspman

[bond007]

the chain driven ones from the earlier post are the 2.0's fitted to the audi a4's and passats, the chain is no longer available so you end up buying a whole new set up at £1000+, most taxi drivers avoid these liek the plague and opt for the 1.9. as for the the cambelt is it worth risking? a genuine skoda kit is only around £100 depending what engine you have, i know i'd rather have it done than everytime i got in the car have it in the back of my mind