Question for James at Allams

[CFB]

i'm considering having Shark do a remap on my 110 4x4.

what would the warranty implications be if there was to be an engine problem, not caused by the remap, but affecting engine electronics?

would the remap show up on any diagnostics?

thanx in advance James

[bahnstormer vrs]

Sorry, but IMHO this is a bit of an unfair question to ask James in a 'public forum'. He may give you an answer if you send him a PM.

However; I think though the answer, from what I have learnt, will be that the Skoda Technicians will be able to detect that 'something' has been done to the ECU from the 'flash count' but I doubt they will be able to work out what.

Of course the give-away will be when the car is in for a service and it gets taken for a 'test drive' and feels like a CR140; you then have the technicians checking the data to see if they've service the wrong car.

[rockhopper]

Sorry, but IMHO this is a bit of an unfair question to ask James in a 'public forum'. He may give you an answer if you send him a PM.

However; I think though the answer, from what I have learnt, will be that the Skoda Technicians will be able to detect that 'something' has been done to the ECU from the 'flash count' but I doubt they will be able to work out what.

Of course the give-away will be when the car is in for a service and it gets taken for a 'test drive' and feels like a CR140; you then have the technicians checking the data to see if they've service the wrong car.

Better whach it with yours then once you have visited Ben, what will they think it is? a Cayane?

Mike

[Superbalicious]

I agree it's unfair to ask James, as all he can say would be along the lines of "any tampering will invalidate the warranty"

Any potential link to the new mapping would enable Skoda to dodge any potential claim, whether it's clearly linked or not.

It's a risk, and perhaps nothing would go wrong at all and you'll enjoy better performance with a possible improvement in economy... although personally I'd wait three years.

[rockhopper]

It's a risk, and perhaps nothing would go wrong at all and you'll enjoy better performance with a possible improvement in economy... although personally I'd wait three years.

Then it will be time to change cars........

So I've done it at one month old & 2000 miles.

Mike

[Superbalicious]

Hmm, I see your point

[stanjackos]

i'm considering having Shark do a remap on my 110 4x4.

what would the warranty implications be if there was to be an engine problem, not caused by the remap, but affecting engine electronics?

would the remap show up on any diagnostics?

thanx in advance James

While you are at it, I would also get an insurance quote, they are getting a bit touchy about "Mods" especially performance enhancing alterations.

[stanjackos]

i'm considering having Shark do a remap on my 110 4x4.

what would the warranty implications be if there was to be an engine problem, not caused by the remap, but affecting engine electronics?

would the remap show up on any diagnostics?

thanx in advance James

While you are at it, I would also get an insurance quote, they are getting a bit touchy about "Mods" especially performance enhancing alterations.

[rockhopper]

While you are at it, I would also get an insurance quote, they are getting a bit touchy about "Mods" especially performance enhancing alterations.

My insurance company have charged me an extra 10% which is fine by me.

Mike

[dstev2000]

If it came down to it, they could pull the ECU from the car and send it back to the factory or to a specialist for in depth testing, that would undoubtedly uncover a remap.

If there were several thousand pounds worth of potential warranty work at stake, I wouldn't put it past a manufacturer to do something like that.

The wording of the warranty documentation probably states that any tampering will invalidate all sorts of things so an unrelated warranty claim may also be compromised.

I've had warranty work done on a car with a flash count of about 30 (readable on VCDS) and nothing was ever said - luck of the draw.

[bahnstormer vrs]

Better whach it with yours then once you have visited Ben, what will they think it is? a Cayane?

Mike

..... Shhhhh!

[bahnstormer vrs]

While you are at it, I would also get an insurance quote, they are getting a bit touchy about "Mods" especially performance enhancing alterations.

I went with Skoda Insurance (Allianz) and declared a remap, suggesting it would take my CR140 to a CR170.

They said that's fine but plus 10% - fair enough.

Edited 16 February, 2011 by bahnstormer vrs

[Merlinman]

Map fully declared here with Skoda Ins - no problem - just a 10% premium hike - and I think you'll find several others here who have had a similar experience?

[Trekker]

Did the original poster understand the pros and cons of getting the remap of his diesel 110bhp engine?

I see pros: more enjoyable drive, possibly more mpg, low insurance hike, cons: warranty fail, cost of remap.

I understand the increased torque (low rev range engine power) could lead to increased mpg if driven softly, but doesn't the remap just configure the engine management parameters to use an increased amount of turbo boost? It seems like a paradoxical situation where mpg can not be increased as the amount of fuel used at lower revs is increased anyway...

....can somebody give a theory as to why mpg might be improving despite the increase in fuel usage at lower revs?

[stanjackos]

My insurance company have charged me an extra 10% which is fine by me.

Mike

Insurance hike sounds good, one other thing I am desperate to know, it seems you are quite garrulous about your re-map, have you cleared it with Skoda. If not, lets hope they do not monitor these posts.

[bilun777]

As I understand it,more fuel at lower RPM results in more turbo boost,therefore more power.You can drive around using less revs for better performance,therefore saving a bit of fuel. As an example:- Sit in your car,and hold the engine at 2000RPM in neutral.Now increase the RPM to 2500....you achieve that by putting your foot down a bit more on the throttle pedal ,therefore using more fuel. I also believe the DSG gearbox has the potential for more fuel saving ,because the engine is producing more torque at lower RPM,so the box will change up to a higher gear earlier. :yes:

[rockhopper]

Insurance hike sounds good, one other thing I am desperate to know, it seems you are quite garrulous about your re-map, have you cleared it with Skoda. If not, lets hope they do not monitor these posts.

I am not hiding it. What is the point? there are many ways for them to find out the car has been remapped, one being to drive it.

The remap is written so that it doesn't affect any of the cars components, just brings it into line with other vehicles within the VAG group that use this engine in a higher power output form.

I have it on good authority that Skoda does read Briskoda.

Mike

[jan25]

what would the warranty implications be if there was to be an engine problem, not caused by the remap, but affecting engine electronics?

/quote]

I asked my dealer this question when, 5 or 6 yrs ago, I bought a new PD140 Octy Est. He said there would not be a problem unless the modified map was responsible for the fault.

At first sight, this seems very reasonable, but I suspect there may be a lot of scope for the supplier to cry foul!

Use a reliable re-mapper for some peace of mind!

[dibujo]

Now don't go upsetting people by suggesting the Yeti might need work done under warranty. lol

[Frank Bullitt]

I understand the increased torque (low rev range engine power) could lead to increased mpg if driven softly, but doesn't the remap just configure the engine management parameters to use an increased amount of turbo boost? It seems like a paradoxical situation where mpg can not be increased as the amount of fuel used at lower revs is increased anyway...

....can somebody give a theory as to why mpg might be improving despite the increase in fuel usage at lower revs?

Firstly, turbochargers don't increase the amount of fuel in an engine, they increase the amount of air; exhaust gases being pushed out turn a 'impellor' on a common shaft, the other end of that shaft being a propellor that forces more air into the engine. Increased boost means that use all the fuel in the cylinder efficiently rather than pushing unburned fuel out of the exhaust (increase in air to the combustion chamber makes the spark and fuel usage more efficient) - remapping generally increases the amount of air into the engine and this can allow for an increase in fuelling at times. The beauty of turbo's is that unless they are being called for, they just lay dormant - so when cruising on the flat, sat at idle and so-on they make not the blindest difference to economy; the bonus is that when faced with an incline or the need to accelerate, they allow the engine to get the car to speed quicker with minimal increase in fuel consumption if at all - it's for this reason that non-turbo diesels are rarely more economical than comparable TD's (as anyone spending over a minute with their foot through the bulkhead getting an Astra 1.7D from 30-70mph will testify)- best off getting there in half the time using a little more fuel for 30 seconds than a slightly smaller amount p/s for 60 seconds...

The downside is that turbo's can suffer from lag (most modern ones don't really) and what people often refer to as 'lag' when they actually mean 'threshold' where at low-revs it takes time for the exhaust gases to build sufficient pressure to turn the impellor, thus turbo's don't really perform at low revs unless they are ultra-low pressure units (less pressure required to turn them but also very little boost when they are turning). Superchargers (where the shaft and propellor are powered via the crank rather than exhaust gases) don't suffer from lag or threshold but they are continuously engaged making them less efficient when cruising; most supercharged engines now have a clutch that disengages them though, although they can be re-engaged almost instantly.

With 'charging', you have less need to change down at higher speeds to regain speed, a quick turbo-boost and off we go. My economy didn't change with a remap, but I rarely venture out of top gear over 40mph (before it was 50mph) and any time I need to get up to speed it happens in much less time so whilst I use a bit more fuel than before giving it the berries, my foot is to the floor substanitally less time.

Simples.

[Yeti_Man]

The remap is written so that it doesn't affect any of the cars components, just brings it into line with other vehicles within the VAG group that use this engine in a higher power output form.

Surely no other VAG car uses the 140's combination of block/injectors and turbo running the boost similar to your remap? Im confused if thats what you are suggesting as the 170 isnt just tweaked in the software/ECU, it uses a physically more capable turbo charger. :S

Although I do agree to the principle; other vag vehicles do 'limit' the figures in the ECU only - a good (older) example being the 1.8T lump in 150/180bhp outputs - however, they used the same ancillaries and engine components whereas the 140CR doesnt.

[bahnstormer vrs]

Surely no other VAG car uses the 140's combination of block/injectors and turbo running the boost similar to your remap? Im confused if thats what you are suggesting as the 170 isnt just tweaked in the software/ECU, it uses a physically more capable turbo charger. :S

Although I do agree to the principle; other vag vehicles do 'limit' the figures in the ECU only - a good (older) example being the 1.8T lump in 150/180bhp outputs - however, they used the same ancillaries and engine components whereas the 140CR doesnt.

I know there was a difference on the PD engines with the PD170 using piezo injectors but the PD140 not. I don't know if there was/is a difference in the turbo.

On the CR engines, I had occasion to look through the brochure for the VW Tiguan at one time and noted that the description of the engine's technical spec was the same for the three variants of the 2.0L TDI CR. I therefore thought that it is a straight question of ECU programming to get the different levels of tune; but perhaps not if there are subtle differences in the actual turbo or injectors.

Anyone fancy looking up part numbers on EKTA to confirm/deny the differences?

[Yeti_Man]

If the 140 uses the same turbo as the 170... I'll eat my Yeti! (Sorry Beti!)

[CFB]

i don't see the problem with asking on the forum.

he represents skoda and they are responsible for deciding the answers to the questions i asked.

i have never dealt with him personally, but several members here have done and value his efforts and integrity.

if anyone was to give a proper answer then i am sure james would be that man.

i was merely curious as to the implications and thought it may benefit others who were also considering having a remap done.

on balance it would seem that skoda don't mind it being done and even their insurance co are being reasonable, although it would not affect them if there was a warranty claim.

now if i've offended anyone with my original post, then i apologise. it was not my intention.

[Llanigraham]

i don't see the problem with asking on the forum.

he represents skoda .

No he doesn't, he works for Allams, a Skoda dealer, who happen to sponser this site.