vRSy's Mk2 Fabia vRS project and build

[vRSy]

Stock wheels wont fit. prob need a spacer of around 5mm.

Brakes are 323mm 6 pots.

these alloys are 7.5" x 17" ET35 so need for a spscer.

[vRSy]

Caliper comparisons!!!

OEM single pot caliper and 280mm discs 13.5kg

Tarox 6 pot Caliper and 323mm discs 12.5Kg!!

So ive saved myself a kilo off each wheel which isnt a huge saving by any means, but considering there are an extra 10 pistons available now and nearly 45mm extra diameter on each disc that's pretty impressive i think. I might look into upgrading to two piece discs at a later date because thats where the weight savings will be really noticed but not in a huge rush.

Just about to order a set of new pads. Currently running Tarox Corsa pads which are pretty good, but are essential a road biased small track compound. Believe it or not, this pad is a rebranded Ferrodo DS2500 pad. Something a bit more aggressive is need i think. Speaking to Tarox this morning, they have confirmed that the pad is an identical shape to that found in the Mk1 Leon Cupra R so LOADS of options available on the market

[stu_mcl]

How close are they to the diameter of the wheel?

The r32 brakes are 340 something mm so im not sure if the wheel will fit over them

[vRSy]

Which wheels, stock or TD1.2's?

Pretty sure R32 brakes are 323mm iirc. There is loads of clearance for the discs to the outside of the wheels, you have no worries there even for a 350mm disc. I reckon you could just about squeeze a 360mm set under there.

The clearance problem s between the caliper and the rims.

[TrevorB33]

Looking great si, love the wheels and brakes, just for ref r32's are 334mm discs off the mk4 ,

[vRSy]

Near enough though . Should still fit with loads of room though.

[Confide]

Yeah, the only difference is spacewise for calipers.

I counted on my D2 and they seemed to want about 12-15 mm spacer on the stock rim...

Got that sorted out on the current rims as those are quite abit wider !

Looks excellent with the build and I hope the performance will come to you, vRSy!

Wonder if GIAC knows anything about the misfires at highboost tho, they seemed to be able (atleast according to their salesman in Sweden) to make 280 bhp already !

Will try to get that in writing (think there is one in the thread "500 bhp in 1.4 golf?" over at uk mkiv that are at around 320 bhp crank-horses!).

[vRSy]

Yeah but they were greek Hp. Greeks, Turks, Cypriots etc all seem to get these huge horsepower figures despite the really high temperatures and altitude. I personally dont believe alot of their claims especially when cards with identisl software and hardware to us allegedly make an extra 20-30hp. Stage 1 cars with 240hp Their horses must be much smaller than ours which means they get to have more of them lol.

The power is there for the taking, but they wont do it until the misfire is removed. I like theat mentality personally. Id rather have a reliable setup as it does get used properly lol

Didnt know GIAC were working on this engine.

[Confide]

GIAC has alot off companys that cooperate with them in the south part off Europe, mainly Cyprus.

Thing is tho that they have actually a dyno-sheet for it, linking it here :

I know they usually have it hotter down there, but if they got more experience off the engine...

Don't you actually think that they might even have a chance to actually make more horses?

And if you compare it to the dyno that was linked in the Fabia 2 section :

Your seeing ALOT more corrected power in this one despite that the wheel-power is alot lower.

I'd say that the Cyprus-papers looks better imo and that they look more plausable.

Understand what I mean? Not meant to be rude or anything.

Just don't like when people name and shame .

[vRSy]

Double post

[vRSy]

Not slating any one. merely said i think most quoted figures from the like if greece are massive compared to identical cars with matching softwsre and hardware in uk

You prefer the top curve with that horrendous dip? the figures look great but the curve is terrible. i agree about the whp on mine being low. doesnt seem right but all the cars read low whp there for some reason. ill be testing on another dyno soon anyway.

What i do know is that my car matches a porsche 911 Carrera with 325hp in a straightline which adds up as it has the same power to weight ratio as my car assuming 250hp/1150kg and 325hp/1450kg. Have video proof as well for any non believers hence why im pretty sure its currently hovering around the 250hp region

[H17YD_L]

Mine read a really low WHP figure on APR's maha dyno too, I think they know this and have altered the correction figure to accommodate this as it read spot on for the flywheel horsepower

[Confide]

That's because they run ALOT more torque on their car, ofc it will be spikier in the mid-range.

I'd prefer mid-range grunt over not having it at all tbh but that's just me =).

They will have to back it off since the turbo for instance maybe can't push more air.

Also, since it can provide so much mid-range it kinda proves that fueling won't be a problem either on another sidenote for myself =D!

Not trying to slate you, but I just don't think it's fair with just brushing it off and calling it ponys instead, get what I'm saying?

Weight-ratio doesn't necessarly means it will be an even race, I've managed to beat a 911 Carrera 4S with my old SAAB from 100-200 km/h (before he started to brake) and my car had more weight (50 kg) and less power (approximatly 15 bhp).

Gearing for an example will be something that's pretty different between the cars for an example, I had a more favorable gearing then he had since my gearing went 50/100/155/210/265 instead off the standard 60/120/195/255/300 .

[vRSy]

Im pretty certain NONE of the main tuners would release a map which had a power delivery like that. I certainly wouldn't buy a map that delivered it like that irrelevant of its ultimate output.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

We have a different turbo anyway so in all fairness their not comparable. His might flow alot more. There isn't an issue with fueling. The problem is the misfires. We're running 1.1bar at the redline currently. This turbo can maintain 1.8 bar at the redline but it misfires at that boost so the plan is resolve the misfire then turn it all up. Don't forget this is far from complrte. It should be done by The end of November

FWIW I was advised by two guys from greece with hybrid 1.4TSI's that the way to resolve the misfire was to reduce the knock sensor settings and a few other bits. But that doesn't resolve the misfire, it hides it. APR don't work like that.

[Guest Sib-rs]

The top curve is pretty shocking to be fair

[Richf]

FWIW I was advised by two guys from greece with hybrid 1.4TSI's that the way to resolve the misfire was to reduce the knock sensor settings and a few other bits. But that doesn't resolve the misfire, it hides it. APR don't work like that.

Be interested to know what the other bits are because a knock sensor is just a microphone and reducing the settings to the ECU is a risky move since if the ecu doesnt know the engine is knocking it cant adjust the settings to compensate, in fact my last ECU would start to alter the map if knock settings rose above a count of 8 , but I set the ecu up to flash the CEL if the counts rose above 3

[vRSy]

Exactly. i guess thier tuners chose to ignore it rather than fix the issue. APR plan to rectify it if possible. tbh i am happy with my current output. any more power is a bonus

[Jabozuma]

IMHO and from what I read about high performance engines and torque/power curves the top one is much better for drag racing as it will accelerate the car constantly all the way to red line while the bottom curve flats out, it is referred to as under curve area or something like that and the bigger it is the better. Suspicious is the fact that power and torque curves do not intersect at 5727 (or whatever RPM number it is) as they have to.

I am not an expert but I would look at your spark being blown off at high boost. Either due to spark plug properties, spark energy or mechanical geometry of your intake system. The latter may be configured in such a way as it promotes spark blowing off above certain boost pressure. I can't remember what is you charge cooling setup? With good water to air cooling installed just before the manifold you ill be able to run more boost as the effective pressure would drop due to charge being cooled better me thinks .

[vRSy]

Ill leave it to the professionals mate. They're the biggest VAG tuner in the world for good reason lol.

Everything you say has been done already. 5 different brands and settings of plugs at varying gaps, 3 brands of coilpacks including High output OKADAs. These cars do not have charge coolers. They have air to air intercoolers. There is a new intercooler to be fitted imminently with alot more volume.

As for power curves just because there is a plateau of power it doesn't mean the car no longer accelerates to the redline!!!

[vRSy]

regarding the graphs crossing at 5250rpm. they both do. for this to work the scales need to match and it needs to be bhp and lbft. My graph does anyway, but if you convert the torque on the top graph to lbft at 5250rpm you'll see it has the same figures as the hp at the same rpm do would infact cross

[Jabozuma]

If you say spark plug route has been exhausted then you need something done with your cylinder intake geometry. I do assume that injectors and fuelling is sorted (too lean a mixture and you will get misfires) as a starting point? All right, let's leave it to them but as they seem to be stuck one begins to wonder ... Keep us posted with your fan build project!

As far as overtaking Porsches etc if a pro was driving then it had probably something do with it as they they can carry rather more speed through corners than casual rich (old)boy racers . I of course do not dare intimating here that you might be anyhow inferior in your driving capabilities compared to pro drivers .

Ah, bigger volume will cause big pressure drop and less pressure at the manifold, combined with less pressure from cooler charge. I'd ditch air-to-air and have a single water to air just before the intake manifold. Leave the air to air rad as is to cool the water from the charge cooler. Dramatic decrease in volume and charge temp will deliver high boost levels of low temp charge = lots of O2 to burn more fuel

[Jabozuma]

regarding the graphs crossing at 5250rpm. they both do. for this to work the scales need to match and it needs to be bhp and lbft. My graph does anyway, but if you convert the torque on the top graph to lbft at 5250rpm you'll see it has the same figures as the hp at the same rpm do would infact cross

Thanks, All I could see was graphs and did not think about them possibly being non corrected or in different units lol. Sorry!

[Jabozuma]

Forgot to say that lesser volume means lesser lag

[Jabozuma]

Si, how much did you pay for that track day at SS?

[vRSy]

i was keeping up with the carrera but jonny cocker was flying past them them like they were going backwards.

who said APR are stuck, i have faith and theres loads more work to be done. , Maybe they can hire you lol all problems solved