Swapping Tyres Round - Against "Advice" of Tyre Fitter

[skodanorman]

Hello all.

Hoping you can all confirm what I believe to be true here.

I'm working out of the country so my missus is at home using the Octavia daily. The rear tyres were due for renewal so I ordered 2 x new tyres online.

I told her to have them fitted to the front and the front tyres moved to the back - as I'm aware this is general common practice for FWD cars.

Anyway, when she went in and asked the tyre fitter to do this she was told that it was "against advice" to do so as the car could end up going sideways under heavy breaking due to uneven grip levels??? Despite her protests, the 3 male mechanics eventually managed to persuade her to have them fitted to the rear.

As far as I can see, it was because he was too lazy to spend the time doing it and was more bothered about his commission.

I hate it when men decide they can b/s a woman.

So does anyone know if there is any "advice" to the above effect? I intend to go and complain when I return to the UK in a couple of weeks so would like other opinions.

Thanks.

[slider]

fitting the best tyres to the rear is generally the best advice for "average" drivers. Just as the tyre fitter advised heavy breaking with poor rear tyres can cause the tail to "let go".

Of course the best tyres on the front of a FWD will always provide more grip and this would be my advise to a competent and better than average driver who has the reactions, experience and ability to control a tail slide.

[gadgetman]

As above it is always recommended and advised to fit the best tyres to the rear. Main reason being you cant tell as easily as the fronts if a tyre is slipping or about to break away, and a front skid is easier for most drivers to cope with than the rear breaking away.

There are plenty of videos on YouTube to explain why the new should always go on the back - a good one with VBH.

[Ootohere]

??Can i ask how the Rear tyres were due for renewal,

had they been on the Front last time you had fitted New tyres to the Front,

& they got moved to the rear,

or was it just they were the originals or something?

Yes best tyres to the rear, & fit new tyres to the rear usually.

(obviously not if the fronts are almost illegal & you can only afford a pair of tyres this month and you are going to be getting another pair the month later, or other variations on things, so it is not a hard and fast rule. Most tread on a rubbish pair does not always equate to 'Best pair')

BUT,

when you have 4 nice tyres fitted to a FWD car that is gong to use a front pair up within 10,000 miles possibly,

its good to extend the life of the 4 tyres by moving the not yet worn or scrubbing fronts to the rear,

and do this every few months or couple of thousand miles.

Then you can make plans or budget to Get 4 nice upgraded or better quality tyres the next time instead of having 2 rubbish standard issue good tread left tyres on the back that just end up getting scrapped or sold to the fitters mates, when you do need those 4 nice new quality tyres.

george

Edited 17 June, 2012 by sk4gw

[gadgetman]

A set in 10k? If you cant get around 20 from a set either you need to clam down your driving, learn not to spin the wheels,.or stop buying cheap rubbish rubber in the words of my old man.

As for extending wear, how?

[Ootohere]

Read what you see in a post and do not make up your own stories.

No place in my post did i mention my cars or my tyres.

I did not say i used a set in 10,000 miles. I do not buy or use poor performance or cheap tyres on the road even on a run about, but i do not waste money, so if a car i buy say comes with Dunlop Sport Max and are in OK condition i will get the use out of them instead of wearing the front 2 and then needing to just dump a decent pair from the back, or give them away.

I change tyres on performance cars from front to rear on a regular basis and change wheels/and tyres to suit Winter or Summer or 1/4 mile use etc.

(i will buy a set of Cheap Halford Alloys with poor performance tyres and scrub them in and have tyres to use on a 1/4 mile strip or Autotest, £400 for wheels and tyres & when the tyres are passed being used the wheels get sold and cost is minimum,

you can get 2 sets of different size tyres to suit the gearing, which will give 4 pairs and last a couple of seasons or might not get used and can be sold as new at little cost.

i would not use those tyres on wet or winter roads on my cars, even when new.)

Regularly in the Fabia vRS section you will see comments in posts on the short life of tyres on peoples cars.

Obviously cars being ragged.

george

Edited 17 June, 2012 by sk4gw

[skodanorman]

I bought the car last year with 4 mixed tyres. I changed the fronts in March for some Avon ZZ3s as their tread was gone. The rear tread was okay actually but the sidewalls were all cracked so I changed them this month (Pirelli's). Didn't do at the same time because of the cost.

Seems to have worked out okay then. I did always think it would be best to have the "best" tyres at the front. Learn something new every day.

[gadgetman]

Was based on your post and saying using in 10k possibly.

Still don't understand logic in swapping. If you replace 1.5 tyre on the front for every rear tyre, you're not saving anything it extending wear surely? Only increasing the chances of ending up with very low tyres (assuming only changing one axle at a time) or needing 4 in one hit.

I also only buy decent tyres. The works car can only have conti-seal tyres and they'll be shot around 20k at a push. I'd prefer Michellin which cost less and can easily get 30k on fronts, but the car has to have conti-seals as no spare and no inflation kit. Told I can't use Michellin :(

[Volvomeg]

I just think they were been lazy and didnt want to swop wheels about, they would have been able to tell tyres were stil quiet new on front.

At work we always try to put best tyres on front as front tyres get most hammer and i know where i woukd want most grip when breaking hard

[Ootohere]

Gagetman,

I know what you are saying,

Its best if you dont understand the logic or do not believe that it works or will work for your needs then dont do it,

or pay any attention to others opinions or experiences.

It will not be necessary for you to do anything different from what you do if your tyres and tyre wear suit your use.

You are driving different cars and using them in a different way from me or the cars i am working on are being used,

and things work for me, but then i am working with various cars and tyres & am changing stuff on a daily basis.

george

[Babs]

I'd always have the better tyres at the front

[@Lee]

seeing as front wheel drives have the weight of the engine, the steering and ~60% of the braking to deal with, I always make sure the better tyres go on the fronts, and move the front to the rear if they have enough life left.

[VladSoilerOfCarpets]

seeing as front wheel drives have the weight of the engine, the steering and ~60% of the braking to deal with, I always make sure the better tyres go on the fronts, and move the front to the rear if they have enough life left.

Snap. And my rear tyres always last for much longer than the front ones, because I do drive hard around corners mostly. So I suck it up and buy decent partworns from someone I know & trust... save myself tonnes on retail for tyres that have 6-7mm on them. Job done.

My Civic I used to have got 80,000 (yes, 80,000) miles from the rear tyres. Never carried rear passengers or heavy loads in the boot, and it was quite a light car. The fronts I used to get around 15,000-20,000 miles from. Think I've done pretty well on the Octy's ones so far, despite a simply huge increase in torque (150lb/ft or so).

[Lazy Daisy]

Like Lee has said I always thought the best should go on the front but a friend pointed me here

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/care-guide/ten-tyre-care-tips

With the front wheels you have a measure of control with the throttle and steering but with the rear you have no influence over it's behaviour so you want as much control as you can give it.

[moley]

_{I used to believe that it was best to have the best set on the front of a FWD car.}

_{I have since seen the evidence that hard breaking in the wet with worn rear tyres can cause the back end to break loose, there was a video posted on here recently showing that the 'best' tyres should be on the rear.}

[Lazy Daisy]

i know where i woukd want most grip when breaking hard

So do I, at the rear, so I don't end up in a spin.

[gadgetman]

http://youtu.be/-rvAJSMT5jc

[sharkrider]

your car has ESP its not going to go sideways. if the above vehical was dont with a new octy vRS it wouldnt loose control. on snow there is miles less grip than slightly more worn rear tyres on the OP car in the rain... watch this from 6:40 ... until 10 minutes...

I always put the best tyres on the front. they do the most work on a FWD car, this is where I want the best performance..

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

I`v never seen the point in swapping tyres about, as said, just means you end up needing 4 all at once instead of 2 at a time.

[@Lee]

So I suck it up and buy decent partworns from someone I know & trust...

you'll have to put me in touch with him.

[mdon]

I'll admit I've only read the first couple of replys but I can't understand the logic of fitting the best tyres to the rear? I always put the best ones on the front and when they are 2/3 done I swap them with the bread so eventually I end up replacing all 4 at the same time.

The whole best grip to the rear due to all the weight is at the front doesn't make any difference to an average driver doing average driving, I can see how it may make a difference to a rally driver or something, but on Tarmac?

All my opinion obviously.

[slider]

The whole best grip to the rear due to all the weight is at the front doesn't make any difference to an average driver doing average driving, I can see how it may make a difference to a rally driver or something, but on Tarmac?

All my opinion obviously.

Unfortunately the facts are that the "average" driver is more likely to get caught out if a car skids. Many "average" drivers will never have experienced a rear and skid and unfortunatly a fair number will not react correctly and in fact will not even know how to react correctly.

Don't forget that those using forums like this are car enthusiasts and, on the whole, are more likely to have had experience of skid control.

I am sure you do not mean to imply that wet tarmac is never going to be slippy!

For that reason an average car needs to be set up to prevent it skiding in the first place - hence grippy tyres on the back.

[mdon]

Unfortunately the facts are that the "average" driver is more likely to get caught out if a car skids. Many "average" drivers will never have experienced a rear and skid and unfortunatly a fair number will not react correctly and in fact will not even know how to react correctly.

Don't forget that those using forums like this are car enthusiasts and, on the whole, are more likely to have had experience of skid control.

I am sure you do not mean to imply that wet tarmac is never going to be slippy!

For that reason an average car needs to be set up to prevent it skiding in the first place - hence grippy tyres on the back.

I reason why I'm unsure about this is because I would rate myself as a average driver and despite living in the wettest place in England I've never known a FWD oversteer.

[jrw]

I reason why I'm unsure about this is because I would rate myself as a average driver and despite living in the wettest place in England I've never known a FWD oversteer.

haha, i got caught out once with oversteer in my old Polo sport. Going round an island a little too fast with a back end rammed full of stuff and the back end just went....was raining and the island was by a tip so likelyhood of diesel and other rubbish spilt onto road but i managed to control it surprisingly well and naturally, so much so i did the same on the next island 'cos i was young and it was fun'!

Saying that, the car had only done probably less than 10k at the time so the better tyres were on the back and clearly didn't make a difference in this case (no esp) but i would always but the newer tyres on the front being driven wheels and steering.

[apd007]

I always go best tyres on front. I'm no great driver but I'd rather spin the car than hit a child as the front tyres were worn and not gripping as well as they could.