Swapping Tyres Round - Against "Advice" of Tyre Fitter

[MartynVRS]

Just to add Skoda fitted two Bridgestone Potenzas to the front of my vRS and didn't question me about fitting them to the back instead. Got Conti's on the back with about 5mm on

[Ootohere]

Been reading the 'Fabia Owners Manual'. on a rainy day, (about to phone the Samaritans.)

Page 180.

'Changing wheels around.'

"If significantly greater wear is present on front tyres, we recommend changing the

front wheels around with the rear wheels.You will then obtain approximatly the same

life for all tyres.

It may be advantages to swap the tyres over 'crosswise' when certain types of wear

characteristics arise on the running surface of tyres (but not in the case of unidirectional

tyres). Specialist garages are familiar with details.

We recommend that you change the wheels around every 10,000km in order to achieve

even wear on all wheels and to obtain optimal tyre life."

We no doubt all listen to what they tell us anyway having read the book from cover to cover.

george

[VWD]

Or maths, the English language, how to jack up VAG cars, and personal hygiene

One tyre depot I know of, couldn't tell the difference between tyres by looking at them . Van had ABS problems. Cause - three correct size etc tyres( eg 205/size/speed) plus one smaller ( 185/same size /same speed rating).

Then we move on to the MOT testers in their depots, who in my si****ion couldn't tell the difference between the spare and rear near side tyre( the nail in the rear NS had moved into the spare when I got home ,and had become a screw). Recently had a look at another FAIL certificate from another car from another depot. Last time I went there , they failed mine on low headlamps and advisory of nail in rear tyre . This oher car had an identical FAIL/advisory . Coincidence - :wonder: .Personally I don't go much on coincidences .

Took car to a place I trust - lights, spot on . And the nail -see above. Even Paul Daniels would be hard pressed to magic that up .

[Aspman]

I think (don't ask me for proof) that big fat low profiles when they do break away they'll do it fast. Mainly because you have top be going that much faster to lose grip than if you were running on hard skinny rubber such as you'd have had 30yr ago.

Best way to crash a car is going to be straight on into something, so it's better to have a car that will understeer and plough straight on into a tree than to spin and hit it with the drivers door.

[matt_theforce]

Been reading the 'Fabia Owners Manual'. on a rainy day, (about to phone the Samaritans.)

Page 180.

'Changing wheels around.'

"If significantly greater wear is present on front tyres, we recommend changing the

front wheels around with the rear wheels.You will then obtain approximatly the same

life for all tyres.

It may be advantages to swap the tyres over 'crosswise' when certain types of wear

characteristics arise on the running surface of tyres (but not in the case of unidirectional

tyres). Specialist garages are familiar with details.

We recommend that you change the wheels around every 10,000km in order to achieve

even wear on all wheels and to obtain optimal tyre life."

We no doubt all listen to what they tell us anyway having read the book from cover to cover.

george

That is also Skoda's answer to the sawtoothing problem on the rear tyres. Just swap them front to back every year (don't worry about your safety)

For the last few years I've always had new tyres fitted to the rears and then moved to the front when the fronts have worn to approx 3mm, seems to work well for me with our awfull conditions in the Peaks

[Kiwibacon]

That is also Skoda's answer to the sawtoothing problem on the rear tyres. Just swap them front to back every year (don't worry about your safety)

The saw-toothing isn't just a skoda thing. I've had it happen on my fwd Nissan. I think it's simply because the rear tyres do nothing but brake, there is no force acting the other way. A 4wd Nissan I have with exactly the same suspension as the fwd doesn't wear it's rear tyres in the saw-tooth pattern.

[Ootohere]

Can i ask which Nissan comes in 'Permanent All Wheel drive with centre diff' (not Part Time only AWD) & also comes in Front Wheel Drive only?

george

Edited 4 July, 2012 by sk4gw

[KenONeill]

I think some of the Cashcows are 4wd aren't they?

[Ootohere]

The Qashqai are part time 4wd as i understand, 2wd, auto or lock,

so i did not think that would be any diifferent from part time AWD Yeti, Freelanders etc on Tarred surfaces as it only runs in Front Wheel Drive, only driving rear wheels once there is slip unless in 'lock' hence doing little on sealed surfaces or where there is traction at the rear in general warm weather driving.

Newer Grand Vitaras are permanent 4wd, but then the older RWD & select AWD ones never suffered from Saw-toothing.

george

Edited 4 July, 2012 by sk4gw

[G.P]

I think it's simply because the rear tyres do nothing but brake, there is no force acting the other way.

In a striaght line your right. .

[Kiwibacon]

Can i ask which Nissan comes in 'Permanent All Wheel drive with centre diff' (not Part Time only AWD) & also comes in Front Wheel Drive only?

george

None in the UK market that I know of. There were several JDM.

Some of the mid 90's cars (bluebirds etc) were true full-time 4wd, this one I have is fwd with a viscous coupling driving the rear wheels. It's essentially the X-trail system (similar to early Haldex) but with a viscous coupling in place of the electric clutch. Because the viscous is never clutched out, it spends enough time in corners pushing that rear tyres have so far worn flat instead of saw-toothed.

In a striaght line your right. .

In corners I'm also right. The rear tyres in a fwd car never see a force acting opposite to braking.

[Ootohere]

Cheers for that,

i take it much as on the Original Freelanders then.

http://www.bellengineering.co.uk/5.html

george

[Kiwibacon]

Cheers for that,

i take it much as on the Original Freelanders then.

http://www.bellengin...ng.co.uk/5.html

george

Presumably, I haven't driven or worked on a freelander to be certain.

[G.P]

The rear tyres in a fwd car never see a force acting opposite to braking.

So, if I could fit plastic wheels to the rear of a fwd car, and drive around a corner, the car would not go into an oversteer slide. .

[Mort]

So, if I could fit plastic wheels to the rear of a fwd car, and drive around a corner, the car would not go into an oversteer slide. .

To be pedantic, that's sideways and not opposite to braking. The rear wheels in a FWD car will never see an force opposite to braking as they are never driven.

[Ootohere]

To be more pedantic,

i watch 5th Gear this morning and Tiff Needell do a comparison on a Golf GTI & an Octavia vRS.

He reversed the length of the track and did a time of around 90 seconds each time.

So what forces were being introduced to the non driven or steered wheels in that s,ituation?

george

[Mort]

I'd say the rears (or forward in that case) still only have braking forces applied even if they're going backwards - just in the opposite direction. The only control you have of the non-driven wheels is to resist/stop their rotation (braking) regardless of whether they're going forwards or backwards. You can't increase their rotation (which would be the opposite of braking) by changing their direction.

[G.P]

I think it's simply because the rear tyres do nothing but brake,

To be pedantic, that's sideways and not opposite to braking. The rear wheels in a FWD car will never see an force opposite to braking as they are never driven.

To be pedantic yes it's sideways, but rear tyre's do more than just brake. .

[gadgetman]

Well Kwik fit don't seem keen on swapping the tyres around and putting the new ones on the rear.

Sigh

[Ootohere]

But then they sometimes are not keen to put on a new crush washer on a sump plug even if you give them notice before the oil change that it is an awkward washer to get & they say they will order it in.

But on the day think they can find it kicking about in a box or tool chest and when they can not, just do not bother fitting a new one.

(not important

& 'whats the worst that can happen', just a little leak, they never were given any teaching 'Capillary action' maybe.)

They sometimes even think if they, wipe clean the filter, that you will think its had a filter change,

some even think if they wipe clean and then put some prints on it it will be more convincing.

The Actors/performers they use on adverts are good dancers,

they should see if they are any good as 'Fitting Centre Technicians & Fitters'!

george

[gadgetman]

Well, after asking and asking they've reluctantly swapped them.

Given the car is alway fully laden, and the current weather, I don't fancy the rear breaking away.

Also glad they're not alloys given the way the guys treating the wheels!

[Kiwibacon]

Well, after asking and asking they've reluctantly swapped them.

Given the car is alway fully laden, and the current weather, I don't fancy the rear breaking away.

Also glad they're not alloys given the way the guys treating the wheels!

If it's always fully laden it'll be harder to get the back out than unladen. Are you getting a bit of water at the moment?

[Ootohere]

Try and get a look at F1 practice from Silverstone. bitty wet.

Then 'T in the Park' weekend,

Wimbledon etc.

Wet Weather tyre time, and as they say, 'only travel if your journey is essential.'

Suns splitting the pavement in Forfar today!

george

[KenONeill]

Try and get a look at F1 practice from Silverstone. bitty wet.

Then 'T in the Park' weekend,

Wimbledon etc.

Wet Weather tyre time, and as they say, 'only travel if your journey is essential.'

Suns splitting the pavement in Forfar today!

george

It's no' too bad over on the West side either.

[@Lee]

Thread Revival!

Having acquired some 16" wheels from an L&K Octy, which had tyres with too high a sidewall for the Furby (205 55 16 when I need 205 45 16 due to rubbage on the N/S/R) I put the original 185/60/14s back on. This time I had the new Uniroyal Rain Experts on the back and the older (still with 4-5mm) Good-Years up front. Last night, while driving home in the wet, there was a very noticeable difference. I'll be swapping them back tomorrow.