I had a 2.3 Audi 90 which came with remoulds on. I changed the fronts for decent tyres and was waiting until I could afford to do the rears. Went around a corner in the wet, lifted slightly. bad idea!

Rear started to come around, I steered into it, went the other way. up a 6" kerb and stopped.

Blown new front tyre, wheel scraped, alignment way out.

I will never buy cheap tyres and I like to put the best ones on the rear.

I say it's rubbish.

It is very difficult to spin a car and if/when you do the difference in tyre tread is never going to be what caused it. It is never going to happen braking in a straight line.

There is no significant difference in grip between full tread and low tread unless you are in gravel, snow or deep water. If you are in gravel, snow or deep water there are a multitude of other things to worry about.

I haven't met many tyre fitters who understand physics that well. My car, I make the decisions and I pay them to do what I want. I rotate my tyres to try and wear out a set evenly. This also involves swapping wheels from side to side which most tyre fitters also hate.

But if I don't rotate tyres, I have to replace them sooner. Which is where the tyre industry makes more money.

I had a 2.3 Audi 90 which came with remoulds on. I changed the fronts for decent tyres and was waiting until I could afford to do the rears. Went around a corner in the wet, lifted slightly. bad idea!

Rear started to come around, I steered into it, went the other way. up a 6" kerb and stopped.

Blown new front tyre, wheel scraped, alignment way out.

I will never buy cheap tyres and I like to put the best ones on the rear.

Your description suggests the tyres had nothing to do with your spin. Drive more carefully in the wet next time and don't brake or lift off the throttle in a fwd in a corner. Have a read up on weight transfer during cornering, braking and acceleration. What you learn there will help you avoid such si****ions in the future.

Your description suggests the tyres had nothing to do with your spin. Drive more carefully in the wet next time and don't brake or lift off the throttle in a fwd in a corner. Have a read up on weight transfer during cornering, braking and acceleration. What you learn there will help you avoid such si****ions in the future.

Agreed - it certainly taught me a lesson!! It was many years ago

I'm sure having crappy rear tyres didn't help though.

I haven't met many tyre fitters who understand physics that well.

Or maths, the English language, how to jack up VAG cars, and personal hygiene

But if I don't rotate tyres, I have to replace them sooner. Which is where the tyre industry makes more money.

Surely it just means you just have to replace 4 at a time instead of 2?

Surely it just means you just have to replace 4 at a time instead of 2?

Yes. I like my tyres to match. I also think by rotating the tyres/wheels I can probably get another 10-20% out of them. Wearing them all to the limit vs wearing one of the pair out first and replacing the 2 or 4 when they still have a fair bit to go.

Hummmm, intresting. So you reckon you actually get 10-20% MORE wear from your tyres by swapping them about? I would have thought that the wear rates stay the same on the front and back of the car, so it doesnt matter which way round they are, after 100,000 miles or whatever you`ll have still used the same amount of tyres. :think:

I haven't met many tyre fitters who understand physics that well.

:rofl:

Hummmm, intresting. So you reckon you actually get 10-20% MORE wear from your tyres by swapping them about? I would have thought that the wear rates stay the same on the front and back of the car, so it doesnt matter which way round they are, after 100,000 miles or whatever you`ll have still used the same amount of tyres. :think:

It's quite simple.

If you don't rotate tyres, then one wears out first. At the least you replace a pair when one has worn out (usually front left) and the other has a lot of rubber left.

If you rotate them intelligently, then you can get to the wear bars on all the tyres at roughly the same time.

A rough example.

Front left tyre has chewed out in 15,000km from too many round-abouts, but front right tyre is only 50% worn. They both get replaced as a set at 15,000km.

If you swapped the tyres around earlier on you could have got ~25,000km from the pair and worn both out at roughly the same point. You are then 10,000km further down the road before shelling out for a pair of new tyres.

Like the set of spare wheels I bought for my 4wd. Of the four tyres on there, one was worn out (likely front left) and the other three were roughly half worn. End result, the previous owner got maybe 50,000km from a set which he could have got 100,000km from (BFG A/T's, very hard wearing, not so good in the wet though).

You must go round islands a lot faster than me then. Both my fronts are 4-4-4 on the front and 7mm on back. I reckon the rears will do at least 50k miles so I will not be rotating as I would just be replacing 4 at a time instead of 2 over the same mileage with a nice £600 bill for 4.

I have recently swapped mine around again to even out the last bit of wear. Fronts currently around 3.5mm and rears 2mm

On the Cumbrian run last weekend, when breaking heavily in the wet I could feel the back stepping out before the front.

In an emergency braking sit u a tion, this might catch a lot of ordinary folk out, especially those without ESP.

When I've swapped them around before, with about 6 on the front and 4mm left on the rear, this wasn't a problem.

It seems that it's fine until the rears are near the end of their life, then the front has much more grip and problems can occur.

.

Edited 21 May, 20179 yr by matt1chelski

I understand the theory and it makes sense. But I've never bothered to rotate tyres on any car. Never had a grip related problem at any time in any weather.

I change them when they need done nothing else.

The benefit in replacing all 4 is that you often get a discount (or at least I do at my tyre fitter) if I only replace 2 I don't. Also I would advise leaving the rear tyres on a car for 50-60k as in 6 years the walls will have started to crack and the rubber goes hard making it more prone to slipping/skidding.

I always replace tyres in pairs and i have swopped them side to side to get more life out of them

I`v never seen the point in swapping tyres about, as said, just means you end up needing 4 all at once instead of 2 at a time.

Eh? How does it?

I kill my front tyres

I have rears moved to the front

I have new tyres on the rear

I kill the front tyres

I have rears moved to the front

I have new tyres on the rear

ad infinitum

Bearing in mind the little wear that rear tyres get, I think every time I've done this the rears still have 4-5mm left by the time they get swapped, so I'm then left with 4/7 front/rear. There's no way I can wear out 7mm on the rear in the same timeframe as 4-5mm on the front in this type of car, so it's a perfectly safe bet that there's always going to be enough life in the rears to give them a bit of a run on the front and mean I never have to buy a set of 4 through natural wear and tear. Some times will be closer together than others, obviously, but still I'll essentially never need to buy more than 2 at once.

Eh? How does it?

I kill my front tyres

I have rears moved to the front

I have new tyres on the rear

I kill the front tyres

I have rears moved to the front

I have new tyres on the rear

ad infinitum

Most people wear the fronts down half way then swap so after the same amount of time again they then replace all 4, as various people have already said. As for tyres, i`v only even seen small discounts on 4 tyres which still made them more expensive than online or my back street place that just has set prices (no discounts). Each to their own at the end of the day I guess.

Oh. I've never heard of anyone doing it that way, and yeah, that makes no sense to me either. I certainly wouldn't do it that way, I always prefer having the best grip on the back so wouldn't swap part-worn fronts for almost-new rears. I'm confident in my driving but there seems no point taking the risk just in case, I'm pretty sure that I could handle a tailslide as I understand physics and FWD handling, but tbh I'd rather just never find out...

Interesting reading. I think this argument for the back end stepping out is no doubt true, but only in the most extreme of circumstances. I'll bear that in mind in the future. I've never bought 4 tyres at once and I don't see how that'd work out given that the fronts always wear quicker (with FWD anyway...)

What's the betting that if it had been me then he would have done what I had asked? Still I have the last laugh, given the same cars I'm sure my good lady could show him a clean pair of heals.

Doesn't have to be extreme circumstances, IMO. There's a video somewhere of Vicki Butler-Henderson driving round a roundabout in the wet and spinning. Yes, she was driving deliberately fast to make the car lose grip, but it wasn't "realms of impossibility" fast either before the car decided it wanted to 180.

I posted it earlier

So you did, I missed it and just saw the Bosch ESP demo. My bad!

Doesn't have to be extreme circumstances, IMO. There's a video somewhere of Vicki Butler-Henderson driving round a roundabout in the wet and spinning. Yes, she was driving deliberately fast to make the car lose grip, but it wasn't "realms of impossibility" fast either before the car decided it wanted to 180.

30mph into a roundabout flooded with water. I would call that extreme circumstances and they don't show the steering before the car starts to slide either. It makes me wonder if, like most "safety demonstrations", it was rigged and the car was thrown to break traction and exaggerate the risks.

Technically she didn't make a 180 either.

I have recently swapped mine around again to even out the last bit of wear. Fronts currently around 3.5mm and rears 2mm

On the Cumbrian run last weekend, when breaking heavily in the wet I could feel the back stepping out before the front.

In an emergency braking sit u a tion, this might catch a lot of ordinary folk out, especially those without ESP.

When I've swapped them around before, with about 6 on the front and 4mm left on the rear, this wasn't a problem.

It seems that it's fine until the rears are near the end of their life, then the front has much more grip and problems can occur.

So you were braking heavily in the wet while steering?

Just wondering if you've ever tried that in the dry in a car with perfectly good tyres and no ESP? It doesn't take standing water or bald tyres on the rear to spin a car with that method.

If i go into a roundabout or T junction or anyplace when it is wet or cold,

even driving carefully in a Front Wheel Drive car with 68 bhp or say with 178bhp and a DSG box and Supercharger going to kick in,

I want good tyres on the Drive Wheels that also do the steering and the braking.

The rear tyres at legal tread will do me just fine, but i really do want good tyres at the Front.

*I want to be able to stop start and steer and when i am driving the car,

have control of driving it, and unless being really extreme the rear will follow the front,

the un-driven rear tyres that have no power going to them unless they are on a part time AWD should not be overtaking the front wheels.*

Now RWD BMW's costing say £55,000 plus with rear tyres costing £250 plus each, struggle to cope with a bit of wet or cold on a road surface.

( you can get the back end out on them by just trying to crawl up a slight incline that is off camber, or even pulling out at a junction.)

Funnily driving a real car which is FWD on actual real road for many years, it is not really so easy to get the back end out without the use of a 'Rally flick',

or a bit of use of the hand brake .

Well that used to be the way of it,

untill you started getting safety measures on cars like ESP that Brake rear brakes & ECO tyres that are basically cr4p, but allow manufacturers to advertise low Emissions and good Economy.

Fitting tyres sensibly for the type of vehicle and the type of use it get seems to be the answer.

Even cheap tyres can last almost a life time if they are treated properly, (these might be perfectly safe for the vehicle and its use or way it is driven)

& some tyres that are designed to provide either grip or ones that are designed to be Economic on fuel can last almost no time.

This does not make then Economic in the 'Cost' over the life time of a car. JMO.

It is a case of Pays your money and make your choices,

or some people just dont bother and let others guide them on what to do.

george

Edited 19 June, 201213 yr by sk4gw