I swopped the wheels round side to side for the first time today - no rain

Apart from greasing all the bare threads I could see/reach, I was concerned at the corrosion starting on the hub/alloy wheel interface on the wheel locating spigot.

A spot of copaslip will fix this, as I know from experience on my MG that corrosion here can prevent a wheel coming off on a rainy night. Worth checking if you've nothing better to do :think:

ps: I'm only swopping the wheels round 'cos I want to wear them all out together, so they can be replaced with a full set of intermediates. Already after six months there was differential wear.

I experienced the same as you, I swapped the fronts with the rears and kept the lefts on the left and the rights on the right. I also put copaslip on the hubs and when all my tyres were changed at 36,000 miles or there a bouts all four tyres had 2mm on them.

I swapped mine front to back.When I part exchanged at 23500 miles it was similar at about 3 mm on all tyres.

Very exciting in the wet with the 225 /50 / 17 worn tyres though.....

Side to side swap is not a good idea. Tyres do not like to have to change direction of rotation - whether directional design or not. Front to back is much better idea.

My experience is that the fronts wear in a slightly "rounder" pattern, whereas the rears stay fairly square. Front to rear swap at each change front winter to summer and vice versa results in pretty much even wear on all four - best overall wear rate and performance.

+1 on the wear pattern.

Side to side swap is not a good idea. Tyres do not like to have to change direction of rotation - whether directional design or not. Front to back is much better idea.

I've heard this from many sources, but have never heard any logical explanation behind it. So I ignore it and happly swap tyres to whatever corner I feel like. It's never caused any problems.

My experience is that the fronts wear in a slightly "rounder" pattern, whereas the rears stay fairly square. Front to rear swap at each change front winter to summer and vice versa results in pretty much even wear on all four - best overall wear rate and performance.

That shows your front tyres need a bit more pressure and your rears a little less.

I've heard this from many sources, but have never heard any logical explanation behind it. So I ignore it and happly swap tyres to whatever corner I feel like. It's never caused any problems.

If you look at the sidewall you will find a reason. Many modern tyres are directional. They are constructed with the underlying bands making up the carcass laid so as to operate in one direction. That is why they should be fitted that way. I remember simpler tyres which were made without that sort of internal complexity-since the introduction of radial tyres with the original Cinturato from Pirelli things have moved on. :wonder:

If you look at the sidewall you will find a reason. Many modern tyres are directional. They are constructed with the underlying bands making up the carcass laid so as to operate in one direction. That is why they should be fitted that way. I remember simpler tyres which were made without that sort of internal complexity-since the introduction of radial tyres with the original Cinturato from Pirelli things have moved on. :wonder:

Directionality is only the tread pattern, I have never seen a non-directional tread pattern with rotation arrows.

If a tyre really was damaged by force in the opposing direction then we could never safely reverse or brake. Last I checked tyre cords run in both directions. If they didn't the tyre would distort when inflated.

Edited 11 July, 201213 yr by Kiwibacon

If you look at the sidewall you will find a reason. Many modern tyres are directional. They are constructed with the underlying bands making up the carcass laid so as to operate in one direction. That is why they should be fitted that way. I remember simpler tyres which were made without that sort of internal complexity-since the introduction of radial tyres with the original Cinturato from Pirelli things have moved on. :wonder:

JCP, you have to remember, everything you know about tyres is wrong, and Kiwibacon knows everything about tyres.

JCP, you have to remember, everything you know about tyres is wrong, and Kiwibacon knows everything about tyres.

I must be doing something right, because I've yet to roll over and catch fire due to my rims being too small, my front tyres having more tread or my tyres being rotated to different sides.

Somedays this place is like a meet of the old-wives-tale telling club.

I once bought a car with the directional arrows back to front.

I just swapped them side to side.

What did worry me ,many years ago,I saw a car with the old Michelin XAS tyres on, with the treads reversed, and they had very assymetric tread patterns .

Kiwibacon. Sorry to have appeared to disagree with you you are obviously a world expert. I've never reversed at sufficient speed to test the stability of my tyres carcass nor braked hard enough in reverse to see if my vehicle would turn over or catch fire.

I've been on the roads on two and four whels for a while and have chosen to keep an eye on technical developments. When I was young there was a rather patronising view that NZ was still rooted in the 1950's. I had long since discounted that as being a prejudice unsupported by fact. Please don't prove me wrong. I do not peddle old wives tales and if you think this is one I suggest you do some research.

I must be doing something right, because I've yet to roll over and catch fire due to my rims being too small, my front tyres having more tread or my tyres being rotated to different sides.

Somedays this place is like a meet of the old-wives-tale telling club.

I'm going to be more blunt.

Kiwi, grow up and stop making stupid comments.

And if you don't like the way a lot of us Yeti owners are, the answer is simple, don't come here!

+1

Fred

+2

The tread pattern of most tyres is directional to make them shift water to stop you skimming across a puddle and going out of control, if you do happen to have this happen try to avoid the other Innocent motorist on the road, and your insurance company may love you no need to pay out.

good luck going against the specifications of the manufacturer

+3

Guys, I might have started this off by a bad choice of phrasing; what I meant was I swopped the tyres front to rear on each side.

Phew, hopefully the wear will equalise out.

I have more of a problem on my MG that has not only directional tyres, but the section is different front to rear on the same diameter rims to induce a bit of understeer. I have to leave the tyres where they are and replace in pairs

Kiwibacon. Sorry to have appeared to disagree with you you are obviously a world expert. I've never reversed at sufficient speed to test the stability of my tyres carcass nor braked hard enough in reverse to see if my vehicle would turn over or catch fire.

Excellent.

Now what is the difference in loading between a tyre braking while being driven foward and accelerating while being fitted on the other side so it rotates the other way?

I've been on the roads on two and four whels for a while and have chosen to keep an eye on technical developments. When I was young there was a rather patronising view that NZ was still rooted in the 1950's. I had long since discounted that as being a prejudice unsupported by fact. Please don't prove me wrong. I do not peddle old wives tales and if you think this is one I suggest you do some research.

Were you here in the 1950's? That would possibly explain your view. I'm happy to say there are very few 1950's relics left here, but I was educated by a few back in the day. Coastal climate in much of the country caused them all to rust, grow barnacles and seize up. Now most of them are in rest-homes.

I'm also big on research and technical reasons for the things we do. This old tale of not swapping wheels side to side is one that appears to have no technical basis for non-diectional tyres. None. The often heard reasons for it don't stand scrutiny.

The tread pattern of most tyres is directional to make them shift water to stop you skimming across a puddle and going out of control' date=' if you do happen to have this happen try to avoid the other Innocent motorist on the road, and your insurance company may love you no need to pay out.

good luck going against the specifications of the manufacturer[/quote']

I have found the minority of summer tyres to be directional, but with winter tyres directional tread looks like most of them.

Without a directional tread and corresponding rotation arrow, there is no manufacturers specification and indeed no way to claim a tyre has been fitted to the wrong side.

Certainly all the tyres I've bought in the last 6 or so years (all non-directional) have manufacturers markings to line-up with the valve-stem. Such markings dictate the tyres will be fitted to roll in either direction.

Also, every assymetrical tyre is uni-directional. A tyre can't have both an inside/outside requirement and a directional requirement lest they would need twice as many tyre moulds and retails have to stock twice as many tyres.

+4

Try an internet search and see how wrong you are Kiwibacon.

From my first hit "Tyre Direction":

"Direction tyres are those that have a tread pattern that is designed to operate best when rotating in one direction. The tyre pattern is usually chevron or arrow shaped with grooves running from the central portion of the tyre to shoulders. Generally acknowledged to be derived from wet racing tyres these directional road tyres have excellent wet weather performance due to their ability to remove water from the road surface.

Directional tyres will usually have either an arrow or other symbol indicating the direction they are designed to run.

Strong point of a directional tyre is its ability to resist aquaplaning. However, due the fairly aggressive tread design they are generally thought to suffer from noise generation than non-directional tyres. Care must be taken to mount the tyre correctly on the rim as performance can be reduced dramatically should the direction be incorrect - spare wheel, if fitted with a directional tyre, has a 50/50 chance of being the wrong direction of rotation when used!"

Setting yourself up as a font of knowledge as you did in your postings here was asking for it - and you got it! So please don't get bitchy when you are taken to task for it. Or is it just that you know better than Michelin / Dunlop / Firestone / Pirelli etc.

Members who post here are amongst the most helpful people I have ever "met" and you will find that just by observing the postings of others you may well learn something new. Incidentally, a simple apology goes a long way, and most Kiwi's I have met are very polite and would acknowledge that they were wrong. Or is it to much to ask.

Posted by someone who has been buying tyres for nearly 50 years (Not 6 as you state of yourself) and has known of this for a good number of those years.

Excellent.

Now what is the difference in loading between a tyre braking while being driven foward and accelerating while being fitted on the other side so it rotates the other way?

Were you here in the 1950's? That would possibly explain your view. I'm happy to say there are very few 1950's relics left here, but I was educated by a few back in the day. Coastal climate in much of the country caused them all to rust, grow barnacles and seize up. Now most of them are in rest-homes.

I'm also big on research and technical reasons for the things we do. This old tale of not swapping wheels side to side is one that appears to have no technical basis for non-directional tyres. None. The often heard reasons for it don't stand scrutiny.

I have found the minority of summer tyres to be directional, but with winter tyres directional tread looks like most of them.

Without a directional tread and corresponding rotation arrow, there is no manufacturers specification and indeed no way to claim a tyre has been fitted to the wrong side.

Certainly all the tyres I've bought in the last 6 or so years (all non-directional) have manufacturers markings to line-up with the valve-stem. Such markings dictate the tyres will be fitted to roll in either direction.

Also, every assymetrical tyre is uni-directional. A tyre can't have both an inside/outside requirement and a directional requirement lest they would need twice as many tyre moulds and retails have to stock twice as many tyres.

Your last sentence glad you are big on reseach. I have 4 tyres on my yeti all with directional markings and will always be fitted the right way

goodnight and goodbye

+4

Try an internet search and see how wrong you are Kiwibacon.

From my first hit "Tyre Direction":

"Direction tyres are those that have a tread pattern that is designed to operate best when rotating in one direction. The tyre pattern is usually chevron or arrow shaped with grooves running from the central portion of the tyre to shoulders. Generally acknowledged to be derived from wet racing tyres these directional road tyres have excellent wet weather performance due to their ability to remove water from the road surface.

Directional tyres will usually have either an arrow or other symbol indicating the direction they are designed to run.

Strong point of a directional tyre is its ability to resist aquaplaning. However, due the fairly aggressive tread design they are generally thought to suffer from noise generation than non-directional tyres. Care must be taken to mount the tyre correctly on the rim as performance can be reduced dramatically should the direction be incorrect - spare wheel, if fitted with a directional tyre, has a 50/50 chance of being the wrong direction of rotation when used!"

Did you read what I posted? Because none of the information you posted above is relevant to it.

I'm talking about "non directional tyres" which have no stated direction of rotation and you've copy/pasted a few paragraphs on directional tyres.

Wakev has done exactly the same thing. But has missed completely the assymetric point.

Huh?

BTW, I've been buying tyres for a lot longer than 6 years. But the last 6 years is when these casing markings started to appear showing alignment with the valve.

Let me summarise.

Directional tyres - have a tread pattern and rotation arrows pointing in one specific direction.

Non-direction tyres, symmetrical - have a tread pattern of rotational symmetry and can be run in any position. Are usually marked for balance with one point to match the tyre valve on the rim.

Non-direction tyres, assymetric - have a tread pattern vastly different from one side to the other and can only be run with one specific side outwards.

Assymetric tyres cannot be directional tyres. You cannot satisfy a rotation direction and and inside/outside direction with one tyre moulding.

Edited 11 July, 201213 yr by Kiwibacon

I think the problem that has arisen here is Kiwibacon didn't emphasise [enough to avoid the resultant confusion] in #6 that he was specifically referring to tyres WITHOUT the arrows when swapping sides (ie. left to right and vice versa) of the car...and that he feels happy, himself, to swap sides on tyres WITHOUT the arrows....which is a more arguable point than that of putting the arrows on the wrong way round (which isn't arguable at all - clearly you don't)..

I think a case of misunderstanding.

Personally I just swap front to back to equalise the wear so that I can buy four new tyres rather than two (and this comfortably avoids the other argument about where to put TWO new tyres.....front or back).

Hopefully everyone can now forget the first argument and start arguing about the latter....:-)

Edited 11 July, 201213 yr by oldstan

I think the problem that has arisen here is Kiwibacon didn't emphasise [enough to avoid the resultant confusion] in #6 that he was specifically referring to tyres WITHOUT the arrows when swapping sides (ie. left to right and vice versa) of the car...and that he feels happy, himself, to swap sides on tyres WITHOUT the arrows....which is a more arguable point than that of putting the arrows on the wrong way round (which isn't arguable at all - clearly you don't)..

Yes, thankyou. That is exactly it.

I think a case of misunderstanding.

Personally I just swap front to back to equalise the wear so that I can buy four new tyres rather than two (and this comfortably avoids the other argument about where to put TWO new tyres.....front or back).

Hopefully everyone can now forget the first argument and start arguing about the latter....:-)

I do that too. Just one more stamp in my "pariah of briskoda" book apparently.

I agree that non-directional tyres can be fitted either way. Directional tyres cannot. So nothing to argue about it seems.Mine has directional tyres. Unless the word "outside" on the sidewall means "not for indoor use"

I do that too. Just one more stamp in my "pariah of briskoda" book apparently.

It would have made things easier if you had declared this status as part of your signature.