Sorry people, but if you took your driving test now and slowed the car down using the gears you'd fail the test. Nowadays the method is to just use the brakes. So coming to a stop you stay in 5th/6th and dip the clutch before it stalls.

Sorry people, but if you took your driving test now and slowed the car down using the gears you'd fail the test. Nowadays the method is to just use the brakes. So coming to a stop you stay in 5th/6th and dip the clutch before it stalls.

Hear! Hear! That is what I would normally do but being new to the Yeti as I approached a red light at the end of a motorway I experienced what I would call "driveline shunt" at a higher speed than I expected and only just dipped the clutch before the diesel stalled. I won't be doing that again.

Old school I'm afraid - slow down with gears.

Old school I'm afraid - slow down with gears.

I think the idea is that gearboxes and clutches are a lot more expensive to repair than brakes. I agree we should be in the right gear for pulling away if the conditions change but that only takes a second to do.

Edited 24 October, 201213 yr by Norry

Simple solution - drive an automatic. You never stall, are always in (pretty much) the correct gear - and no way could you end up doing 15 mph in 6th!

Well, in my Jaguar I can come to a standstill and it would be in top unless I selected a lower gear.

Old school or not, modern cars and traffic perhaps demand a different (and more modern) approach.

I'm guessing that you have been driving for more than 25 years?

Have you ever thought of doing an advanced drivers course?

Very useful exercise and makes you realise how much things have changed, why things are now done differently, and how many faults you've picked up in that time.

I think the idea is that gearboxes and clutches are a lot more expensive to repair than brakes. I agree we should be in the right gear for pulling away if the conditions change but that only takes a second to do.

Agreed but let's be sensible here. Unless every change-down is done without using the clutch and the engine is red-lined during each change-down then simply changing down through the gears in a sensible manner is hardly going to wear or damage the gearbox or clutch!

I cannot believe that the current driving test requirement intention is to brake from potentially high speed and leave the car in top gear, dipping the clutch just before the engine stalls. Maybe not changing down one gear at a time, fair enough, but leaving it in gear until the engine labours and judders just reflects no mechanical sympathy on the part of the driver. Anybody been a passenger with my father in law

Who said it had to be until the engine labour and judders?

I suggest there are a few people here who could do with taking a refresher/advanced driving course.

I cannot believe that the current driving test requirement intention is to brake from potentially high speed and leave the car in top gear, dipping the clutch just before the engine stalls. Maybe not changing down one gear at a time, fair enough, but leaving it in gear until the engine labours and judders

I said that it happened to me once and I learnt from that. The thread is about stalling the 2 litre diesels and it is fairly obvious that they are easier to stall than other engines. I have stalled my Yeti probably about 4 times since new that's probably more than any other car I've driven over many years. You do have to be careful with these engines unlike some others.

I suggest there are a few people here who could do with taking a refresher/advanced driving course.

Why? Because I dare to suggest that changing down through the gears when slowing isn't a terrible driving technique? If you take the advanced test does that make you a driving god? Why do IAM suggest using brakes and less changing down gears?

I said that it happened to me once and I learnt from that. The thread is about stalling the 2 litre diesels and it is fairly obvious that they are easier to stall than other engines. I have stalled my Yeti probably about 4 times since new that's probably more than any other car I've driven over many years. You do have to be careful with these engines unlike some others.

My apologies - from reading some posts in isolation it appeared that you thought driving down to 15mph in top gear was acceptable.

I have followed this thread and others and remain of the view that -unless there is a supervening emergency-it is good practice to be in the appropriate gear for roadspeed and conditions. Of course the brakes are the second best means of reducing road speed( the best being anticipation and allowing the car to slow before a hazard or anticipated change of conditions). Of course "engine braking", using the decelerative effect of the engine on closed throttle is not an effective alternative to an efficient braking system.

But I still believe that coming to a halt in 6th (unless in an emergency when both hands on the wheel are a priority) merely betrays a lack of anticipation and coordination.

I'd welcome any response which is other than patronising!

Doing an advanced/refresher driving course, be that by the IAM, RoSPA, or anyone else, makes you realise that since you passed your driving test things change, both mechanically, and in the fact that you will have picked up bad habits. Whether you like it or not that will be true, because by our very nature as human beings we like to pick up things that make us lazy.

Your "arguement" Gjay is one I have heard lots of times, invariably from people who passed their test some years ago, and think that they don't need a refresher. However after they have done one nearly all state they are glad they have done it, had their "faults" pointed out to them, and been told how they can correct it. Nowhere I have I said or implied that doing one of these courses makes you a "driving God".

The use of brakes not gears to slow down is not just the IAM, but now the method that is taught to all learners because it is deemed to be safer and better for the car, so presumably there are plenty of experts from the likes of the Police, accident investigators, etc who have decided this is the case.

Perhaps your Local Authority is as forward thinking as Powys CC, as here anyone over 55 can arrange an assesment and instructional referesher lesson FREE through the Road Safety Dept. Although I have taken the RoSPA test twice in the past I will be booking my session soon.

Been driving for 44 years in all types of vehicles, and am quiet happy using gears (and brakes) to slow down for an anticipated event (although not down by 1 gear at a time). Yes, the 2 litre diesel is prone to shuddering if in a higher gear than it likes, so even more reason to use the gears sensibly.

the 2 litre diesel is prone to shuddering if in a higher gear than it likes

That's true of any engine, surely?

If anything, I think the Yeti's diesel labours with rather more grace than most other cars I've driven (yes, we all make mistakes occasionally :think: ). Maybe that's why people are stalling it: because they don't get the "I'm unhappy" feedback that they expect from the engine? (Not that you should be waiting for the engine to complain anyway, that would be a very poor habit.)

I had a BMW 330D manual 12 years ago.

It was very easy to stall if the engine revs were the slightest bit below normal idle.

Usually when still moving in a give way stuation whilst in second gear.

I was told at the time that it was an ECU safety function to prevent the possibility of the engine trying to run backwards.

My first Yeti 2.0 TDI was also very easy to stall in similar situations and I stalled it quite a few times until I got used to it.

My current 1.6 TDI Yeti is very reluctant to stall( I've never stalled it) even though its first and second gears are quite high.

bilun, I'm so glad it isn't just me "Usually when still moving in a give way stuation whilst in second gear."

I'm new to diesel driving and thought it might just be me.

I commented earlier in the thread that I've stalled the Yeti quite a few times - they've nearly all been pulling away in second gear while still moving (the other times were more obviously my fault!). It'll happily creep along in first or second with the throttle at idle, but occasional pushing the throttle results in a stall rather than an increase in speed. Never had similar issues with the Octy. I end up staying in/changing down to first more often than I would otherwise to make sure I can pull away OK.

Graham, are we talking about braking in 5th/6th to come to a complete stop, or in general? While I have always respected your knowledge and experience, have you ever stepped back and thought, are these people teaching the correct way to do things?

Who decided braking and not changing down was the best way? If a vehicle is moving the clutch depressed and your foot on the brake, and still in 5th/6th then you have not got complete control. As others have stated, being in the correct gear for the situation is the safest way.

Maybe brake manufacturers came up with the idea, so you wear brakes out thus increasing their trade. And could it be the reason more young people have accidents, by being taught the wrong way to drive.

In almost 50 years of accident and insurance free years of driving, including Army service, in several foreign countries, public and private service in the UK, I will continue to change down when slowing down.

As for stalling SE 110's, don't forget it's four wheel drive, ( and I know it's more front than rear under normal conditions ) just use a little more throttle, and be in the correct gear.

Late to the party but, having done the IAM test about a year or so back, the current advice is to stop in the gear you approach the junction unless traffic allows you to move away. It takes practice and observation but you get used to it.

On the original topic, I took the 110 out for a test drive and, in the hour that I had it, I managed to stall it twice. Once coming up to a roundabout and again when I was approaching a corner, changed down a gear (second or third) and it stalled at around 20mph.

Reflecting, a bit of mechanical sympathy, as in my earlier, post goes a long way to explaining the differences of opinion.

I've been an IAM member since 1994, brought up with motorsport/engines etc so perhaps some observations might help.

15 mph in 6th sort of equates to 300/400 1/min, well below an idle speed of just under 800 1/min. Common rail diesels and their associated anti-stall software don't like this sort of low speed and retaliate! Apart from that, the judder will be distributed throughout the drive train - not good.

Perhaps we can accept that braking is the primary way of slowing down/stopping, perhaps selecting a lower gear, say 6 - 3 at an appropiate speed to either speed up again if required ,or drive down to a near stop where the clutch would be depressed to keep the revs above idle speed in one smooth action.

Yes, these modern engines stall more easily than the older "tractor" versions, but they have a lot of advantages. They are still "old" reciprocating engines with all the mechanical bits and bobs that like to keep humming along in their comfort zone.

Phew - I'll shut up now.

Graham, are we talking about braking in 5th/6th to come to a complete stop, or in general? While I have always respected your knowledge and experience, have you ever stepped back and thought, are these people teaching the correct way to do things?

Who decided braking and not changing down was the best way? If a vehicle is moving the clutch depressed and your foot on the brake, and still in 5th/6th then you have not got complete control. As others have stated, being in the correct gear for the situation is the safest way.

Maybe brake manufacturers came up with the idea, so you wear brakes out thus increasing their trade. And could it be the reason more young people have accidents, by being taught the wrong way to drive.

In almost 50 years of accident and insurance free years of driving, including Army service, in several foreign countries, public and private service in the UK, I will continue to change down when slowing down.

As for stalling SE 110's, don't forget it's four wheel drive, ( and I know it's more front than rear under normal conditions ) just use a little more throttle, and be in the correct gear.

Common sense at last.

Common sense at last.

If that means "I agree", so do I.

Anzio, et al,

I don't make the rules. All I know is what I was taught on my most recent Advanced Course, and this seems to be confirmed by this reply that followed your posting.:

Late to the party but, having done the IAM test about a year or so back, the current advice is to stop in the gear you approach the junction unless traffic allows you to move away. It takes practice and observation but you get used to it.

Please stop shooting the messenger!

Graham, not a case of shooting the messenger-rather, in my case, seeking to understand the rationale behid the message. I respect those who have undertaken advanced training and am sure it is valuable but in this respect simply don't understand. In an anticipated and planned deceleration to -or near to- standstill I cannot see the utility in the car being in a gear which leaves the engine below it's useable rev range when it is simple to arrange things otherwise. I don't mean using the engine as a brake but simply matching gear to roadspeed.

Graham, not a case of shooting the messenger-rather, in my case, seeking to understand the rationale behid the message. I respect those who have undertaken advanced training and am sure it is valuable but in this respect simply don't understand. In an anticipated and planned deceleration to -or near to- standstill I cannot see the utility in the car being in a gear which leaves the engine below it's useable rev range when it is simple to arrange things otherwise. I don't mean using the engine as a brake but simply matching gear to roadspeed.

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