I have read the yeti manual section covering the use and operation of the Offroad button and came across this statement.

"It is however a requirement that the vehicle has sufficient grip on the soil. The Downhill Drive Support cannot properly fulfil its function on slushy soil due to physical reasons (ice or mud)."

I've also read various posts on here that seem to suggest that the system works well driving downhill on ice.

We all know that the weather in this country means that any snowfall overnight tends to thaw during the day, turn to slush and compacted snow and ice, then turn to sheet ice the next night.

We've all seen the clips on the news of 4x4s sliding uncontrollably down hills with all four wheels locked.

I understand and use the principles of driving in slippery conditions, softly softly, smooth and using gears not brakes to slow down etc but...

The question I have is does the Offroad button help in any substantial way in these conditions?

I'm sure the old skool off roaders will stay say you can't beat going into first gear, engine braking and all that (while supping their flagons of mead and saying who needs an iPhone anyway...) but on patchy, snowy, icy steep minor roads in Yorkshire last year I really found it was very good and used it more than I though I would (it can brake and transfer power to individual wheels, last time I looked my Yeti only had one brake pedal and one accl pedal so I couldn't do that manually!)

The reason behind my initial switch to winter tyres came about after loosing control of the first Yeti with standard 17" Goodyear summer shoes, on a hill with the off road engaged during a heavy fall of snow. The road was probably already frosted up before the snow fell which would not have helped.

At the time I was also following a Tiguan, although it was some way in front; that descended the hill OK (no idea if it was 4x4 or on what tyres). The Yeti however after only a few hundred yards, lost all grip at the back, which spun us round 180 degrees, not particularly quickly but there was nothing I could do to stop it; by that time I had no grip at all and bizarrely the initial swing out of the back end stalled the engine. Result was one rearward facing powerless Monster sliding down a hill akin to a toboggan :S Only a grass bank saved us from further and potentially costly disaster.

Ended up reversing the rest of the hill and running one side of the car against the edge of the road to help as a brake and keep her straight; tyres just had no grip at all.

TP

Off road/hill descent is brilliant downhill in ice and snow and even better with winters, the system moves from one grippy wheel to another and is very clever but if no traction as road is100% ice and any momentum/steepness the only decent chance of avoiding a mullock would be studded jobbies! Or driving into the curb or shouting Geronimo and hoping you dont hit anything solid!

Cheers

Peter

Ive played with the system extensively in slippery muddy conditions here and snowy/icy conditions in Germany and Switzerland and Im really impressed with what it can achieve. However, if its 'proper' ice and not just thawing snow then there is always going to be limits to what the system can do. If the tyres have no friction/grip on the surface then no amount of individual wheel locking is going to give you miracle descent control. I'll repeat though, it is very good in 99% of the situations you come across.

See here,

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/226223-road-closed/

No way would I do this again though, very scary, other half got out and walked down.

As mentioned previously, great on snow, solid ice just don't.

The reason behind my initial switch to winter tyres came about after loosing control of the first Yeti with standard 17" Goodyear summer shoes, on a hill with the off road engaged during a heavy fall of snow. The road was probably already frosted up before the snow fell which would not have helped.

At the time I was also following a Tiguan, although it was some way in front; that descended the hill OK (no idea if it was 4x4 or on what tyres). The Yeti however after only a few hundred yards, lost all grip at the back, which spun us round 180 degrees, not particularly quickly but there was nothing I could do to stop it; by that time I had no grip at all and bizarrely the initial swing out of the back end stalled the engine. Result was one rearward facing powerless Monster sliding down a hill akin to a toboggan :S Only a grass bank saved us from further and potentially costly disaster.

Ended up reversing the rest of the hill and running one side of the car against the edge of the road to help as a brake and keep her straight; tyres just had no grip at all.

TP

That's a similar experience to the one I had two years ago, only I ended up going forwards with a stalled engine and wasn't exactly shouting jeronimo

See here,

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/226223-road-closed/

No way would I do this again though, very scary, other half got out and walked down.

As mentioned previously, great on snow, solid ice just don't.

That post is what prompted the question and I take the point about it being scary.

I'm not planning on deliberately finding sheet ice to test it out but thought it would be useful to know just in case.

Thanx for your input chaps

Found using off-road button great in snowy roads in general, even with original (16") tyres, and superb going down slippy/snowy slopes. However, agree that it would not work on sheet ice. Probably need studs for those conditions.

Edited 30 November, 201213 yr by finebone

re post #2,

I doubt that many old skool off roaders would say stick it into first gear.

They will be fully aware that the tyres have to be turning to have any control or traction.

If the gears are wrong or the tyres have a loss of traction you are just a sledge.

Which is why when tyres do have loss of traction on a descent or on ice etc,

you will probably ** in old skool no electrically controlled vehicles** try to increase your speed untill the tyres are turning at a speed where traction is regained. (You hope & cross fingers etc) Then try to reduce speed while regaining traction and control.

Maybe a bit of deceleration with gears or brake modulation, even with automatics, overdrive buttion off etc.,

Just anything, j

ust like you need to when modern all singing Traction Controls lose the plot and that slide starts happening or the camber starts taking you to an edge.

That choice would be very unlikely to be 1st in anything very low geared,

& often on ice or snow changing down while trying to slow on ice or frozen snow etc is when the traction is lost.

No traction equals no action often, or in the case of ice, it can be a nice slow slide until something brings you to a halt.,

You often start to pray its a slow slide,

because its amazing how quickly a slightly heavier AWD with loss of traction starts to slide down slopes.

george

A friend who is a farmer asked if he could try out my Yeti last weekend, as he was looking for a replacement for his dead Subaru Forester. As it happened I had just fitted my winter wheels and tyres (16" Continentals).

We went up and down tracks and banks that he wouldn't have done in his old Subaru, and used the off-road button with a downhill descent on a steep wet grassy bank, clutch depressed; you could feel individual wheels braking. My friend was so impressed that he is taking delivery of a Yeti today!

To sum up all the above, for any form of traction control to work (including Hill Descent Control) at least one wheel needs to have reasonable grip so the system can compare a wheel with traction to the rotational speed of the others in order to determine which wheel(s) have lost traction and which need to have the brake applied or power transferred to them as appropriate.

If no wheels have grip then the system cannot detect the difference in rotation of the wheels and no matter how good the electronics, you are out of no control as you have become a toboggan.

You are less likely to find yourself in this situation with winter tyres of course, but it can still happen. The electronic wizardry is extremely clever, and I wouldn't be without it, but it cannot do the impossible and create grip where there isn't any!.

As we have said many times on this forum, there is a common misconception with a majority of the motoring public that you need a 4x4 in winter 'in case it snows'.

Yes, a 4x4 will probably get you up the hill alright thanks to its ability to share traction between all 4 tyres, but as soon as you come back down again, you have exactly the same 4 contact points as any other car (2 or 4 wheel drive) and risk loss of control in just the same way (as several of us found out on standard rubber a couple of years ago). Hence the proper advice (for most people) is to fit winter tyres first, and only if really essential buy a 4X4. Of course a Yeti gives you more ground clearance too - but that is another aspect altogether.

There's no substitute for extreme caution in snow & ice - at the end of the day you may be in control, but what happens when that idiot comes down the next hill towards you sideways in his Corsa or Clio, on your side of the road? Have you got room to get out of the way/stop/reverse? Always expect the unexpected!

Oh and have fun where it's appropriate too!

There's some really great advice there.

I am sure that I will not be the only one who will appreciate it when the time comes.

Thanx guys.

There's no substitute for extreme caution in snow & ice - at the end of the day you may be in control, but what happens when that idiot comes down the next hill towards you sideways in his Corsa or Clio, on your side of the road? Have you got room to get out of the way/stop/reverse? Always expect the unexpected!

Saw something akin to this earlier in the year while climbing up usual suspect round here the Garrowby Hill.

Had started snowing on the approach and you could see the hill was getting hit quite bad in the distance. Started the climb, following traffic round a stranded wagon (why do they insist in trying the impossible), when I noticed a small supermini (not sure of brand) coming down erratically, thankfully the driver managed to regain a little control and dived it into the brake failure gravel trap; still there the following morning. Heard later the road was closed and I assume from the bits of broken car bodywork on the roadside, that probably another car had also lost it coming down and possibly hit one going up; not helped by the stuck wagon either I suspect, although it was in the widest part of the road up the hill :S

TP

There's some really great advice there.

I am sure that I will not be the only one who will appreciate it when the time comes.

Thanx guys.

the time has come, we had sleet which turned to freezing rain and then froze hard overnight. Sheet ice out there this morning

I will wholeheartedly support everything the John H said above.

Once you are onto sheet ice the only thing in control is gravity!

+1 !!

Hi, I found last year that whilst going down hill in slush and the back end starts to come round accelerate slightly and the car will straighten up again this was with winter paws and down hill button on.

That is standard off-road driving training; SLIGHTLY accelerate then allow the speed to drop again without braking.

One reason why I always advocate NOT using hill descent control in neutral!

no matter how much technology or how many driven wheels you have - if you can get grip you can't get going - or more importantly stop!! Decent tyres are the requirement above all else.

4-5" snow fell last night on top of our road which hasn't been gritted and was a sheet of ice.. good test for Trek and its winter tyres.

Bring it on.

4-5" snow fell last night on top of our road which hasn't been gritted and was a sheet of ice.. good test for Trek and its winter tyres.

Bring it on.

hate it when I double post!!!

Edited 3 December, 201213 yr by servicepoint

http://www.trafficsc...etrafficcameras

Where are you.?

Only an ickle snow in Forfar now but on top of 2 days worth of black ice & getting mild.

Tonights freeze will be interesting if there is not a full thaw today,

A slight drizzle happening now.

george

If this is in the wrong place, then I apologise; my question is this - can hill descent be retro fitted by a dealer?

Thanks,

Iain

Catagorical no.

I asked my dealer the same question and they looked into it. It isn't just a question of reprogramming the computer, as it needs some different bits as well.

I turned the downhill assist off when we were up in Ben Laws, only a dusting of snow but very slippery, the downhill assist was making the arse end come around as though the handbrake was being pulled, button was pressed to turn it off and we made our decent in first gear on tick over!

I have to admit I was on standard road tyres and if winters were fitted it might have been a different outcome.