'07 2.0 TDi 4X4, had it for 4 years and it's been the perfect car...

Back in december, driving home one wet night... ignition light comes on, engine starts making very nasty noise, power disappears completely in about 10 seconds.

Local garage tow it in, dire suspicions confirmed: timing belt (replaced last year) gone, all hell let loose in top half of engine, you know the story.

They have a look and say that what appears to have happened is that the alternator belt came off and took the timing belt out with it.

New cylinder head, 5 weeks and £3K later, I take it home... turbo is very noisy (chirrup), power down, then limp-home comes on and I barely get up hill back home.

Garage now diagnose damage to turbo from debris, new turbo needed.

2 weeks and another £1K+ later, all is ready...

...except that while everything sounds fine and runs smooth, the engine is running at what feels like a bit less than 1/2 power.

Obviously it's going back to the garage but I'm getting a bit fed up now.

Anyone offer any clues as to what's up?

Sorry to hear about your problems, I'm sure someone with some more technical knowledge will be along soon to help out.

Sounds like you've been through the mincer with this car, a colleague had similar issues with cylinder heads and turbos, £5 k later he's traded it in vowing never to have another.... Sorry i cannot dd any technical advice but i do hope that you get it resolved favourably.

Cheers guys. The really frustrating thing is that up until now it's been the most fantastic car I've ever had... certainly thinking "get rid" sort of thoughts now.

'07 2.0 TDi 4X4, had it for 4 years and it's been the perfect car...

Back in december, driving home one wet night... ignition light comes on, engine starts making very nasty noise, power disappears completely in about 10 seconds.

Local garage tow it in, dire suspicions confirmed: timing belt (replaced last year) gone, all hell let loose in top half of engine, you know the story.

They have a look and say that what appears to have happened is that the alternator belt came off and took the timing belt out with it.

Although theoretically not an impossible mode of cambelt failure I'd say that was highly unusual. Was this the same garage that did the cambelt change the year before?

New cylinder head, 5 weeks and £3K later, I take it home... turbo is very noisy (chirrup), power down, then limp-home comes on and I barely get up hill back home.

Garage now diagnose damage to turbo from debris, new turbo needed.

2 weeks and another £1K+ later, all is ready...

...except that while everything sounds fine and runs smooth, the engine is running at what feels like a bit less than 1/2 power.

Obviously it's going back to the garage but I'm getting a bit fed up now.

Anyone offer any clues as to what's up?

Maybe something as simple as the inlet manifold pipe coming off the turbo. Did it ever have full power or was it always down on power as soon as you got it back?

Or perhaps the turbo was a red herring....I'm not suggesting it didn't fail....just that it masked something else. It's not unheard of for cars to come back from having belt changes with the timing out.......needless to say, I hope this is not the issue!

I'd plug in an OBD2 reader and see if you can measure boost pressure. On turbo diesels loss of power is almost always loss of boost. It could be as simple as a leak or sensor wire not on properly.

Is this the BMM engine? Mine runs ~22psi max boost, ~37psi absolute on the scangauge.

'07 2.0 TDi 4X4, had it for 4 years and it's been the perfect car...

Back in december, driving home one wet night... ignition light comes on, engine starts making very nasty noise, power disappears completely in about 10 seconds.

Local garage tow it in, dire suspicions confirmed: timing belt (replaced last year) gone, all hell let loose in top half of engine, you know the story.

They have a look and say that what appears to have happened is that the alternator belt came off and took the timing belt out with it.

New cylinder head, 5 weeks and £3K later, I take it home... turbo is very noisy (chirrup), power down, then limp-home comes on and I barely get up hill back home.

Garage now diagnose damage to turbo from debris, new turbo needed.

2 weeks and another £1K+ later, all is ready...

...except that while everything sounds fine and runs smooth, the engine is running at what feels like a bit less than 1/2 power.

Obviously it's going back to the garage but I'm getting a bit fed up now.

Anyone offer any clues as to what's up?

Who replaced it?

Warranty?

I'm guessing there was none, as you paid up £3k for engine repairs? This is the bit that's uncertain: if the belt was changed using an OE part, and by a dealer you'd be covered. OK, they'll always try and wriggle out of consequential claims, but if a new part fails within the period and wrecks the engine, you have a good case.

Well it's now 4 months and counting...

Thanks for all suggestions. I'm reluctant to go down any legal/warranty routes as I'm really not sure I've got enough to go on - suspicions of "I think you stuffed up" can easily be met with "no we didn't, sorry pal".

What I really want is a functioning car...

The garage are scratching their heads, they've had it down at the local dealer (Specialised Skoda Dundee) and they're scratching their heads, everyone who comes into contact says "it's either the wrong head or there's a sensor not working somewhere" and then, when the garage reel off the list of all the things they've checked either via diagnostics (which always come up with zero) or the old-fashioned way, they start scratching their heads too...

So if there's anyone here who can offer better than head-scratching I will be eternally grateful....

If it was a genuine cambelt, you do realise the belt has a 2 year warranty right? If it snaps, it's up to the manufacturer to replace the belt and any resulting damage.

From what you've said above, it sounds like the belt went 1 year after replacement, regardless of whether the garage stuffed it up or not, it's not your bill to pay. It's either the garages or the manufacturers.

If it was a genuine cambelt, you do realise the belt has a 2 year warranty right? If it snaps, it's up to the manufacturer to replace the belt and any resulting damage.

From what you've said above, it sounds like the belt went 1 year after replacement, regardless of whether the garage stuffed it up or not, it's not your bill to pay. It's either the garages or the manufacturers.

The op said that the alternator belt failed & took out the cambelt this wouldnt be covered by the warranty unless the alternator belt was replaced at the same time as the cambelt,happens a lot on renaults too.

Hard to say anything just reading your posts. Assuming timing is right, turbo provides the boost as it should and the head with valve train are all new I'd there's loss of compression I.e. bores were scored by minced up valves debris. BTW, whoever replaced the top end after cam belt failure and put the motor together without taking the blower apart for inspection and cleaning should be footing your turbo bills! Fecking basics! Check pressures in all pots and do wide band lambda diagnostics. Also send oil sample for testing to a lab.

Hard to say anything just reading your posts. Assuming timing is right, turbo provides the boost as it should and the head with valve train are all new I'd there's loss of compression I.e. bores were scored by minced up valves debris. BTW, whoever replaced the top end after cam belt failure and put the motor together without taking the blower apart for inspection and cleaning should be footing your turbo bills! Fecking basics! Check pressures in all pots and do wide band lambda diagnostics. Also send oil sample for testing to a lab.

I was about to quote the same thing. Anytime you have a major mechanical part in pieces, common sense and basics prevail that you give everything a good clean out, it's belts and braces. I'd agree that you should look at being recompensed for the turbo at least.

When you say your cylinder head replacement was "New" are we talking brand new from Skoda or a refurbished like for like. I would ask why your original head wasn't reconditioned, as you'd be surprised at what punishment those can take. Last but not least who replaced the timing belt, and why didn't they replace the alternator/auxiliary belt too as it covers the same operating hours/mileage as the timing belt does.

They have a look and say that what appears to have happened is that the alternator belt came off and took the timing belt out with it.

I'm afraid the OP has been raped by this garage/dealer of his. There is no way an alternator belt failure can subsequently cause a cambelt failure - there is a full cover over the cambelt to protect it.

The garage is just BSing you to cover their liability - the cambelt change should automatically come with a 2 yr warranty if its done in the dealer network.

The majoe rebuild should also have inspected all ancillieries carefully, especially the turbo - the subsequent failure of which is almost certainly the fault of the garage. They should also offer an engine warranty afer a rebuild - they cant get out of it.......

The garage sound both negligent and incompetent - the OP should consider a small claims court action for all costs involved.

;I'm afraid the OP has been raped by this garage/dealer of his. There is no way an alternator belt failure can subsequently cause a cambelt failure - there is a full cover over the cambelt to protect it.;

Err.. Unfortunately it can. Have seen it happen many times. The belt splits and wraps around the crank sprocket between the pulley and the cover....

I'm afraid the OP has been raped by this garage/dealer of his. There is no way an alternator belt failure can subsequently cause a cambelt failure - there is a full cover over the cambelt to protect it.

The garage is just BSing you to cover their liability - the cambelt change should automatically come with a 2 yr warranty if its done in the dealer network.

The majoe rebuild should also have inspected all ancillieries carefully, especially the turbo - the subsequent failure of which is almost certainly the fault of the garage. They should also offer an engine warranty afer a rebuild - they cant get out of it.......

The garage sound both negligent and incompetent - the OP should consider a small claims court action for all costs involved.

Yes it can happen,the belt either snaps or shreads & gets wrapped round the crankshaft pulley & gets into the cambelt & causes it to jump teeth,seen it happen on a few cars now. However i agree that the garage hasnt been through enough with the repairs.

Just realised "Legend" has said the same thing.

Edited 14 April, 201313 yr by mikey vrs

;I'm afraid the OP has been raped by this garage/dealer of his. There is no way an alternator belt failure can subsequently cause a cambelt failure - there is a full cover over the cambelt to protect it.;

Err.. Unfortunately it can. Have seen it happen many times. The belt splits and wraps around the crank sprocket between the pulley and the cover....

I agree with legend on this. I've seen it happen a few times, and the worst one I recall was my mothers diesel megane (not quite the same quality that rolls out of France as Germany) but when I started the repair, trying to untangle the auxiliary belt alone was a task, as it was caught up behind the crank pulley, and toothed cog.

However, I'd still enquiry as to why the belt wasn't changed alongside the alternator belt, since it be the same amount of work to replace both, as apposed to just one. Seems redundant.

Where was the work carried out?

Err.. Unfortunately it can. Have seen it happen many times. The belt splits and wraps around the crank sprocket between the pulley and the cover....

Well you learn something new every day! In that case a poor design.....

But surely the garage changing the cambelt should inspect the alternator belt and assess its suitability for another 3 or 4 years service?

When my timing belt was replaced i asked for the aux belt to be replaced at the same time,you only pay for the part as the belt has to come off anyway to replace the cambelt. For the little cost of the aux belt its madness not to replace it.

Well you learn something new every day! In that case a poor design.....

But surely the garage changing the cambelt should inspect the alternator belt and assess its suitability for another 3 or 4 years service?

Afraid it's the same as "checking" a cambelt for wear, your not always going to see it...

Most garages/techs recommend a new one when doing the cambelt.

Edited 14 April, 201313 yr by Legend

Cannot inspect it for wear. If they "look" like they are worn then you are simply riding your luck as it is about fail any time you turn your engine. Even perfectly good "looking" belts can snap hence certain mileage limitation. As to whether both belts should be changed as SUK what is the standard procedure as described in the current maintenance manual (not available to the public, at least officially ) and you will know if they cocked up in the first place. Turbo failure is their fault and they should pay for it. Lack of power I suspect is due to your pots not holding pressure following havoc wrought by parts of the valves having a party in your cylinders provided all other obvious bits were checked (boost, air flow, fuelling). First contact SUK and ask for the correct procedures for belt changing and then repairs etc after it failed. They can only follow manuals issued by Škoda. Then with that in hand go to your dealers and politely ask the manager to sort it out quickly and without any additional hassle to you. If they do not seek legal advice.

Err.. Unfortunately it can. Have seen it happen many times. The belt splits and wraps around the crank sprocket between the pulley and the cover....

Maybe on a Renault, but I still say this is highly unlikely on a 2.0 BKD engine. The cam cover is metal and pretty strong. The clearance between the aux crank pulley and cover is very small......I can't see how the aux belt could possibly end up wrapped in the cam belt on this engine.

Maybe on a Renault, but I still say this is highly unlikely on a 2.0 BKD engine. The cam cover is metal and pretty strong. The clearance between the aux crank pulley and cover is very small......I can't see how the aux belt could possibly end up wrapped in the cam belt on this engine.

Really.....?!? (Sigh)

I'm afraid it does. As other forum members have also pointed out. In fact it happens more so on common rail engines as the fuel filters leak onto the aux belt causing EXACTLY the same problem!!

Your right in saying Renaults suffer so do many others vehicles with the same set up. Unfortunately.

Really.....?!? (Sigh)

I'm afraid it does. As other forum members have also pointed out. In fact it happens more so on common rail engines as the fuel filters leak onto the aux belt causing EXACTLY the same problem!!

Your right in saying Renaults suffer so do many others vehicles with the same set up. Unfortunately.

+1

I wouldn't say it's common. We've only seen a couple of BKDs where this has happened.

This arrangement (damper mounted direct to crank cambelt pulley) has been around for many years. The same thing could happen on the Mk4 Golf TDI. Unfortunately, it's difficult to protect against this happening.

I'm not saying it's completely impossible......Just highly unlikely......Certainly unlikely enough for the OP to have a healthy dose of scepticism when the garage who replaced his cambelt a year ago (who are liable if they improperly fitted the belt) tells him "not our fault gov, the aux belt wrapped itself round the cambelt"