Evening Everyone,

 

I am just looking for some quick advice on a Fabia 1.2 (the basic 54bhp model) on an 05 plate; 114k miles.

I had the lambda and O2 sensors changed back in August and now the catylitic converter and manifold need replacing. I have been quote £750 all in for replacement.

 

If I go ahead with that, am I likely to now find lots of other things going based on your experiences or should I just give up and buy a new motor.

Does £750 sound about right for getting the work done?

 

I am hoping that someone can give me the words I need to make a decision as to whether I should get it done. MOT is in 1 month and Tax is due this month; all cash outwards!

 

Darren

That sounds un-be-lieeevably expensive to me.

 

Get a second opinion first on whether replacement is really necessary. Why does it need replacing?

Then - if it does - buy a secondhand original one (£50-100?) and get it fitted by a mechanically competent friend for a couple of crates of beer.

Well the original fault code this time was 16804 (which I got from a cheap handheld vag scan) admittedly the engine light came on a few times previously which I reset because I foolishly thought that as I had a few weeks until I had a weekday off it might give me insight as to how often it triggers. That probably has helped screw it over.

I had a number of faults last time which led to the sensors being replaced by them for about £600.

 

In both cases they have said that the parts are the expensive part of the bill.

I'd seriously consider researching an alternative garage to use TBH.  Retail, I think I'd expect to pay no more than £200 for the pair of pre- and post-cat oxygen sensors; and installation, given optimal tools, would be < 1 hour for the pair I should think. 

MOT it early at a different garage and see if it passes. The manifold and cat come in one piece and cost £167 from ecp. Did they give you a breakdown of costs? £600 for a couple of sensors is ridiculous.

Edited 13 February, 201412 yr by fabrel

The manifold is tubular steel and as such is easy to repair if it's damaged, it sounds to me like they've damaged the threads getting the sensor out, now they want YOU to pay for a new one. You can get the manifold repaired by getting the damaged threads welded and re-cut, it sounds like your 'cat' may be fouled and might clean up with a nice long motorway run.

I'd seriously consider researching an alternative garage to use TBH.  Retail, I think I'd expect to pay no more than £200 for the pair of pre- and post-cat oxygen sensors; and installation, given optimal tools, would be < 1 hour for the pair I should think. 

 

To be fair Wino, the precat wideband sensor is close to £200 alone, the postcat sensor is a little cheaper but the labour portion suggests they had a nightmare removing the old one and they've probably damaged the threads in the manifold in the process.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

 

The gents at work use a local chap so I might ask them for his details - I might even give Skoda a call and see how much they would charge in comparison so that I have a bit of ammunition. I fear that I am going to have an interesting day of phone calls in the office!

 

Darren

The manicats do pack up tho, a cheapo option is to weld a good used cat into the exhaust under the car.

To be fair Wino, the precat wideband sensor is close to £200 alone, the postcat sensor is a little cheaper but the labour portion suggests they had a nightmare removing the old one and they've probably damaged the threads in the manifold in the process.

I'm not sure that the 6v engines use a wideband.  Looking here suggests part numbers of 03D906265C and 03D906265A for pre- and post-cat sensors respectively on a BMD engine (which I think replaced the AWY code from 2005).  Images (like in here) I'm finding for the former sensor show only 4 wires/connections.  I thought widebands hand at least 5 wires?

Edit: 6v has only binary sensors; SSP260 says:

 

"The engine management systems used are

– on the 1.2 ltr./40 kW engine the Simos 3PD

and

– on the 1.2 ltr./47 kW engine the Simos 3PE.

Both are designed for single-spark ignition coils.

The difference between the two engine

management systems relates to the differing

lambda regulation.

– The 1.2 ltr./40 kW engine features two steptype

lambda probes

– while the 1.2 ltr./47 kW engine uses one

broadband and one step-type lambda probe."

 

Anyway ECP has a range of sensors including widebands for 1.2 engines, topping out at £90, with some perfectly respectable brands like NGK and Bosch.  Where do you get £200 from, Skoda genuine?

 

Apologies to the OP, for whom this info is too late, so now irrelevant.

No information is ever too late.

 

Well actually it might be; I took it for a second opinion at a local garage/MOT centre near me, and they plugged it in to their scanner, said "well it could be anything, we will reset it and see what it does" and sent me on my way..... so information was wiped

When the light comes back on I will get them to take another look, hopefully before the light comes back on!

 

As a thought, if it is a duff cat; will that cause an emissions fail?

Edited 14 February, 201412 yr by DarrenWG

Anyway ECP has a range of sensors including widebands for 1.2 engines, topping out at £90, with some perfectly respectable brands like NGK and Bosch.  Where do you get £200 from, Skoda genuine?

 

Apologies to the OP, for whom this info is too late, so now irrelevant.

 

The garage will indeed quote and charge retail price for a Skoda genuine part, whether they fit one or not is another matter entirely. Do I need to remind you that businesses NEED to make a profit or they won't be businesses for very long!

The garage will indeed quote and charge retail price for a Skoda genuine part, whether they fit one or not is another matter entirely. Do I need to remind you that businesses NEED to make a profit or they won't be businesses for very long!

 

That would be fraud and pretty easily proven too, so I wouldn't expect it.

 

Remind me...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...why do you feel the need to be rude on here so frequently?

I wasn't being rude, you seem smart, read it again. Does it make everything OK if I just tack 'lol' on the end of everything or add a stupid icon?

 

Come on, be fair, please don't make me do that. Jesus.

I wasn't being rude, you seem smart, read it again. Does it make everything OK if I just tack 'lol' on the end of everything or add a stupid icon?

 

Come on, be fair, please don't make me do that. Jesus.

 

One thing though, you mentioned welding up the manifold if it was cracked, as pointed out earlier, these cars tend to have manucats, so as said when the cat needs replacing so does the manifold. Some years ago, there was quite a lot of chat about this issue with the 1.2 3 cylinder engines, maybe even at an early age, I think that I commented once thinking that maybe the sensors were failing early and getting ignored, so the manucat needed replacing - or, the garages had not (yet) worked out how to sort these engines out. Like you, I have to apologise for not being "stupid icon" literate - though some people can brighten up a posting quite well with them!

 

I seem to remember quite a few years ago, that a 1.4 BBY engine's next section of pipe including flexi and second cat cost about £300 from VAG - that was why I got a new flexi weld in.

 

I have not seen you getting scolded for a while - must be the crap winter weather? (smirking icon replacement!)

Edited 15 February, 201412 yr by rum4mo

I agree mo, however my angle is that I think the garage have damaged the 'manicat' getting the sensor out using the 'hot spanner' technique last August, I find it highly suspect that the garage insist on replacing EVERYTHING from the back of the exhaust valves to the front of the exhaust system simply to chase down an emissions fault which was almost certainly caused by the 'sooting' up of the sensors and cat by minor valve guide oil consumption (114k miles) and doing too many short trips.

 

The problems would probably clear up if the car was used on longer runs with the O2 sensors and cat getting burned clean by the higher EGT in lean cruise during motorway miles.

I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to get the first sensor out of the Polo with its BBY engine, though a bit annoyed that I had bought a proper deep socket that ended up being too long to use in that space. Luckily, I had two entirely different designs of open ended spanners and that made the job very easy - using just one design would not work I think as you could only move about "half a flat" before the spanner fouled something - I was working from below the engine though, probably the only way to do that job on that engine.

I did the seized sensor on my brothers car and simply snapped the ceramic head of the sensor off after part sawing through the steel case with a hacksaw blade and used a regular hex socket and breaker bar, it didn't resist for long, the secret is to use plus gas and try tightening it slightly to break the bond and to pull the penetrant into the thread. Took about ten minutes, no heat required.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts

 

One thing though, you mentioned welding up the manifold if it was cracked, as pointed out earlier, these cars tend to have manucats, so as said when the cat needs replacing so does the manifold. Some years ago, there was quite a lot of chat about this issue with the 1.2 3 cylinder engines, maybe even at an early age, I think that I commented once thinking that maybe the sensors were failing early and getting ignored, so the manucat needed replacing - or, the garages had not (yet) worked out how to sort these engines out. Like you, I have to apologise for not being "stupid icon" literate - though some people can brighten up a posting quite well with them!

 

I seem to remember quite a few years ago, that a 1.4 BBY engine's next section of pipe including flexi and second cat cost about £300 from VAG - that was why I got a new flexi weld in.

 

I have not seen you getting scolded for a while - must be the crap winter weather? (smirking icon replacement!)

 

That would make sense because the first few times it happened the mechanic took whatever readings the did and reset it and I went years without it tripping so they said it was a blip,

Then when it came back I had moved and the mechanic reset it a few times, changed the spark plugs and coils then latterly after falling out with them; the current garage then replaced the sensors

I have reset it once or twice myself as 4 codes came up (back before the sensors were changed) and I was advised to do that so they could trace the first code to cause the fault

 

I agree mo, however my angle is that I think the garage have damaged the 'manicat' getting the sensor out using the 'hot spanner' technique last August, I find it highly suspect that the garage insist on replacing EVERYTHING from the back of the exhaust valves to the front of the exhaust system simply to chase down an emissions fault which was almost certainly caused by the 'sooting' up of the sensors and cat by minor valve guide oil consumption (114k miles) and doing too many short trips.

 

The problems would probably clear up if the car was used on longer runs with the O2 sensors and cat getting burned clean by the higher EGT in lean cruise during motorway miles.

 

The cars history is that it was mostly doing long trips (60 miles each way, mostly 50 to 70mph limits) for the first 95k or so, then lots of short trips when we moved (2 to 10 miles local roads) and so as I am only doing around 300 miles a month at the moment I include a 40+ mile each way trip somewhere to try and keep the engine ticking over and battery charged. Over recent months I have done that at with 60mph roads in a mixture of 4th and 5th gear as I am never sure what is better when driving simply to for that purpose.

 

Conclusion: So I should MOT it quick before the engine light comes on again and if it does so I can fix it.....