Skoda to 'kill' Fabia VRS?

[Brianleeds]

I came across this article which says Skoda will not be offering a VRS version of the Mk III due out later this year.

 

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/skoda-fabia-vrs-is-no-more-skoda-suv-coming-2013-08-21

 

Does this mean all our Mk II models will become 'classics' ??

[Ootohere]

There are 3 other threads on here with the same or similar subject since that article last August.

 

With only around 2,600 currently in the UK, they will never be common.

[Dark_Hero]

Old news now. But will be sad outcome

[mannyo]

it was discussed here in August last year, general consensus was that the problems with the Fabia vRS oil consumption and poor sales elsewhere in Europe are the main reason. Guess drivers don't want a performance version with a DSG box.

Remember when the MK1 Fabia production ended, there was never going to be a MK2 vRS and look what we have now. There may well be a MK3, but as with the MK2 it could be several years down the road.

[Ootohere]

They never announced that they were killing the Cupra only revised a year ago,

or the Polo GTI or A1 185 ps.

Fewer of them around now, so maybe the Polo GTI or the A1 will be more of a Classic.

 

Or just all Surviving Twinchargers into the future.

[Pabs]

They never announced that they were killing the Cupra only revised a year ago,

or the Polo GTI or A1 185 ps.

Eh? Who said that the Cupra was/is killed off?

[Ootohere]

Nobody did, it is not.  

It is just not getting bought by many people, like its other 2 sister cars.

Maybe they should have announced that. they were going to stop building them sometime.

 

The vRS picked up new UK sales once 'The Doctor' announced its demise sometime in the future.

Not actually killing it off as the Top Gear & others articles made it look,

just all MK2 Fabias coming to the end of Production,

& their intention not to do a MK3 vRS or use that name.

[PDIBK]

I think, from the figures mostly you have put up George, that selling 5% of a model as the "Halo" performance variant is what you would expect.  You wouldn't think 50% to be the VRS - it's not likely.

 

So for the Cupra and A1 Sport (the one with the lurid graphics?), as with the VRS, they will sell a few, in copmparison to the wider model range.

 

For every Octavia sold, how many are VRS? For every Golf, how many are GTI or R32?

[Ootohere]

Sorry i do not understand what you are saying.

 

Last Year Skoda Registered new 200 odd vRS Fabia a Quarter.

The last quarters of 2013 figures come out next week.

Seat & VW registered 100 odd 180 ps Twinchargers a quarter 

& Audi 50 odd 185ps.

 

Thats what i am giving figures on Twinchargers Registered in 2013.

We know how few the vRS has sold in the UK & no idea how many RoW.

2010-14

 

The A1 1.4tsi Competition Line Sport,

with Decals and 18" wheels,  is not a 185ps A1 Twincharger 3 or 5 door.

[PDIBK]

OK, off the top of my head, you've said Skoda sold 66,000 cars last year.

 

You also said half were Fabias (makes sense - cheapest model until the Citigo arrived).

 

So 33,000 Fabias sold.

 

6000 Monte Carlos sold (is that total since 2011, or last year?) = c.20%.

 

800 VRS sold = c.2.5%.

 

So the Fabia with the looks has sold a fifth of the manufacturer's best seller.  In my book, that makes it a sales success.

 

The halo model (VRS) has sold a handful, but then would you expect to sell more?  By judging against A1 and Ibiza, no - the figures are comparable. 

 

How about sales compared to Citroen DS3? If they sold 20,000, how many were the GTI model? 

 

My opinion - people (in general, wider car buying audience) don't want a super-fast supermini. 

 

They either want a supermini (so buy standard Fabia), or want superfast (which is arguably better done in a bigger car - Golf GTI, Octavia VRS, Focus ST are the ones that spring to mind from magazine comparisons). 

 

Then a few people will want even MORE power - get your Audi S and RS models, your BMW M3, M135, etc Merc AMGs.  But that brings a BIG cost.

 

So, my point is, when you keep saying that the VRS didn't sell well and the Monte did because it LOOKS like a VRS, but goes like a granny mobile, I say 1) it sold well for what it is and in comparison to other similar cars.  2) The point of the Monte is exactly that - to look like a more powerful car, to celebrate racing heritage, to sell a car to a segment that normally wouldn't look twice - the poeple who think Fabias are for my Dad, or worse, my Granddad, but can't afford a VRS model (to buy, or run, or both).  The people who might drive their mum's cars, but slap on some alloys to improve the appearance.

 

A lot of generalidations there, but I think the VRS has sold as well as would be expected - of 33,000 Fabias, you wouldn't expect 10 or 20% to be VRS.  And the Monte has probably increased Fabia sales, just like the marketing people said it would - standard model underneath, sexy model on top.

 

To those who don't like the looks, they don't buy it.  To those who don't like the performance, buy a 5 year old Golf GTI for £10k instead.  For those that like the looks, but want more oomph, well, stump up the cash, or, do something about the car you have.

 

Let's face it, Skoda are no longer in the market segment where they can afford to be bargain basement.  They produce a product that is almost as good as the VAG "premium" brands.  Equally, Kia and Hyundai have moved up.

 

Is the Fabia as good as a Fiesta today?  Maybe not.  will the Mk3 kick the Fiesta into touch? I hope so.  Mainly because I drive a Skoda and I feel Ford have increased their prices to be too much for the "basic" family car.  £17k for a Fiesta???

 

Now my fingers ache and my eyes are going blurry, so for that reason, I'm out.

[Furbytom]

The rarity-factor is one of the reasons I like the mk2 Fabia vRS tbh. The fact there are no official plans for a mk3 vRS (or if there are will be several years away) is part of what persuaded me to jump in and get another. Might as well enjoy 'em whilst they are still around and get a fresh one now. :-)

[logiclee]

 

 

Last Year Skoda Registered new 200 odd vRS Fabia a Quarter.

The last quarters of 2013 figures come out next week.

 

 

That was heavily discounted with 20% off though. How many would have sold at £17k

 

Local dealer says the 1.2 SE is a big seller but at £8995 it should be.

 

Then the 1.2TSi SE Estate for just £9995. Skoda will sell these all day long.

 

Cheers

Lee

Edited 27 February, 2014 by logiclee

[Sixty7]

We looked at a Vrs but when we found out there was no manual gear box option, well we didn't bother I think that's why it hasn't sold many when u compare to other cars in it's group who have manual options.......to complicated for it's own good like the new clio sport thing 5 th gear didn't rate it because of it overly complicated gear box just my 2 pence worth...

[Ootohere]

PDIBK,  

6,000 Monte Carlos sold with 2000 or so of those in 2013,

mostly Techs.

 

2,600 vRS Sold in 3 1/2 years , of that 800+ were last year

 

2,000 Montes & 800 vRS together last year is not 10% of the Fabias sold

(or First Registered) in 2013 in the UK.

 

Registered by Dealers is not Sold.

Many are Demonstrators, so Sold when a buyer pays for a used one.

 

Neither the vRS or the Monte have sold many compared to the Other Fabia Mk2 Models.

But the Monte has sold twice as many as the vRS. During their production run.

 

** Look at how many VW Polos sold in 2013 in the UK, 42,609**

yet only 400 or so Polo GTI were registered. 

Same number for the Ibiza Cupra, 400 ish.

or how many A1 and they Registered 200 A1 185 ps, 

Maybe not even sold that many.

 

I have never said that the Monte Carlo has sold well on looks,

that must be someone else.

I have always said the Techs are good value.

 

I have said the Montes look OK, but a bit like Mutton Dressed as Lamb.

Or tarts handbag.

[Gazbull17]

There obviously isn't a market for small hatchback VAG hot hatches, they have the original anyway in the Golf GTI so good quality, value for money superminis are where they want to be.

They'll produce anything that makes them a good profit, maybe there will still make a warm Mk3, who knows but the vRS is hardly a classic so it's not the end of an era or anything like that.

[Furbytom]

The problem is that as good as it is VAG have turned the Fabia vRS into too much of a niche vehicle. And that niche is very small indeed for the following reasons :

1- no diesel variant - alienates any diesel fans (and the previous fanbase)

2 - no manual option - alienates manual fans (and again the previous fanbase)

3 - dynamically it's completely shafted by the likes of the Fiesta ST

4- traditional hot hatch buyers might still have an issue with the skoda 'image'

5- the bulk of skoda Fabia customers want a cheap/value for money runabout and simply aren't interested in a hot variant.

If I had 17k to spend and fun was my top priority and I didn't need space/auto I would have bypassed skoda and made a beeline for my local ford dealer to order in a Fez ST.

As it happens the estate vRS meets all my requirements but it is a small and shrinking pool of us that fit into that box. For many people the Fabia vRS is just a compromise too far.

[philhoward]

With automatics becoming more common, I suspect it's yet another case of Skoda being too far ahead of the game  Renault seem to be going heavily into small auto hot hatches now.

 

I wanted a small, quick automatic estate.  One that doesn't cost a fortune in company car tax.  Left me with a realistic choice of two - the Fabia or the Ibiza ST (at the time).

 

You'd have thought it might have appealed to the X-Box generation - stop and go pedals and flappy paddles..?

 

It is rather marmite though - bit like the original diesel vRS Fabia.  A Diesel hot hatch?  Meh...or so they probably said when it came out!

[Brimma]

Solution

1.6 CR TDi Elegance + remap + lowered suspension + vRS front bumper + white Gigaros = manual diesel Mk2 vRS (sort of)

I'm sure someone on here has done one

[BossFox]

The problem is that as good as it is VAG have turned the Fabia vRS into too much of a niche vehicle. And that niche is very small indeed for the following reasons :

1- no diesel variant - alienates any diesel fans (and the previous fanbase)

2 - no manual option - alienates manual fans (and again the previous fanbase)

3 - dynamically it's completely shafted by the likes of the Fiesta ST

4- traditional hot hatch buyers might still have an issue with the skoda 'image'

5- the bulk of skoda Fabia customers want a cheap/value for money runabout and simply aren't interested in a hot variant.

If I had 17k to spend and fun was my top priority and I didn't need space/auto I would have bypassed skoda and made a beeline for my local ford dealer to order in a Fez ST.

As it happens the estate vRS meets all my requirements but it is a small and shrinking pool of us that fit into that box. For many people the Fabia vRS is just a compromise too far.

 

Exactly.

 

The mk2 VRS was the car that VAG was delivering, not what exisiting VRS owners really wanted.  Changing the fuel type and gearbox was a step too far.

I had a test drive in the Fiesta ST last week and I couldn't believe how much better it is.

 

I still do think there will be a Fabia mk3 VRS, just not for a while.

It took them about three years to produce the mk2 after mk2 sales started.

 

What better way to ensure current sales don't dip much (despite large reliability rumors) than to say you won't be able to buy one later on?

 

Classic marketing ploy.

[seboni121]

@ Richard aka bossfox , well said exactly what I would have said however not so eloquently , as Brimma said earlier his 1.6 is much closer to the fab vrs blueprint

[RapidRonnie]

I guess there might be some kind of vRS for the MK3 in a few years time once the next Polo is out and they have their performance version.

 

Maybe we won't get 180BHP again but 140-150BHP TSI with a manual or DSG option in what will probably be a lighter car could make a nice warm hatch, especially if it's more of a looker than the current version.

 

I think if VW and SEAT get a performance version of the next generation Polo and Ibiza then Skoda will too. It would seem grossly unfair for them to not, given that they have outsold the other two!

[philhoward]

Purely speculation, but maybe the 1.4 ACT engine from the Polo/Golf GT?  As Ronnie says, it should be a lighter car than the outgoing version, so bhp/tonne should remain similar.

 

Who knows what other engines might be in the pipeline - maybe the current (new) 1.4/140PS lump has some spare capacity for a performance version?  I'm sure there's something in the proverbial back pocket for a Polo GTi.

[PDIBK]

My point exactly - people don't really want these kinds of car, especially when niche with DSG and petrol only.  But then to expect a model range that stretches to dozens of models might also be unrealistic.

 

We know the Mk2 wasn't the Mk1 reinvented - it was just the name carried forward.  Performance Skodas are VRS.  Whichever version is the top performer for that model gets the VRS sticker - for those models deemed to "need" a VRS.

 

CitiGo VRS could be a Lupo GTI replacement.

 

Manual gearbox options, hatch/estate. petrol/diesel etc.  I guess Skoda might be hamstrung as to what they are allowed to develop.

 

I still think they've sold reasonable amounts of Montes and VRSs, given what they each are and probably given that those customers wouldn't be the "typical" Fabia target audience.

 

Other than that, do I take it George has changed his forum ID and then it all went wibble for a bit when I saw Brimma's new pic...wibble. Wibble.

[vxh26]

<snip>

The mk2 VRS was the car that VAG was delivering, not what exisiting VRS owners really wanted.  Changing the fuel type and gearbox was a step too far.

 

<snip>

Classic marketing ploy.

VAG are a mass-market car manufacturer, they undoubtedly do a great deal of research into what the majority, not the minority, of prospective customers want.

 

There are real issues now in relation to diesel cars, the price differential doesn't favour diesel in the UK; DPF clogging is a problem for people who only do short journeys, town driving and low mileage; diesels are still noisy and unrefined when compared to petrol engines.

 

I suspect that the majority of drivers nowadays would prefer an auto or semi-auto box - the DSG box meets this desire.

 

For reasons of cost, the environment and legislation, fuel efficiency (MPG) is going to become more of an issue every year.  There aren't many countries where the top speed of the vRS is of any practical value to customers. Who cares whether or not you can achieve sub-ten second 0 to 60 times on our traffic jammed roads?

 

Maybe Skoda will badge engineer a Fabia vRS again, maybe they will not.  If they do, I suspect that it will be petrol and will have a DSG box, it will almost certainly have cylinder deactivation and sooner or later, VAG are bound to get into some sort of energy recovery system.  I am sure that they will try to avoid the high oil consumption problems that they had with the CAVE engine.

 

As you point out, for VAG it is all about marketing - i.e. meeting the demands of as many customers as possible, not niche marketing.

 

 

edited: As to the suggestion that the vRS is going to become a highly desirable "collectable" in years to come - I don't think that the oil consumption problems are going to help and it isn't as if the car is likely to be as easy to work on and maintain as a Model T, early Mini or a Ford Capri

Edited 28 February, 2014 by vxh26

[Wardy]

I dare say if they'd kept the successful recipe of the Mk1, or even offered a manual and a diesel option alongside the twincharger/DSG setup, then sales would have spoken for themselves and this 'kill' option wouldn't be required, or felt appropriate.

 

Also didn't stack up from a consistency point of view, seeing as the Octavia vRS has been offered in different 'flavours' of engine and transmission, with quite a bit of success.