Fabia VRS oil consumption..........What is acceptable?

[vxh26]

There are endless threads suggesting that most examples of the vRS use almost as much oil as petrol.

 

There are are a fair number of threads describing the inadequacies of the dipstick and whether it should be used when the engine is cold or hot (whatever that means).

 

People add vague, unsubstantiated, unscientific, nonsensical posts along the lines of "Freddie Starr drank my oil!".  The best advice you can take from here is to keep an accurate, detailed record of ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING related to Skoda and your Mother's vRS.

 

 

Unfortunately if your vRS uses ½ litre of oil over 1001 kilometres you probably don't have a leg to stand on; if your vRS uses ½ litre of oil over 999 kilometres you might get somewhere with a fair bit of effort :(

 

 

Good luck with a thoroughly enjoyable if somewhat unsophisticated car with what should be a simply fantastic engine and gearbox combination that you will probably never see again.

[Ootohere]

To be most.  that would be more than 1,400 vRS Twinchargers in the UK.

(greater than 50% of the cars registered in the UK.)

 

Now you are Blowing it out of proportion.

 

??

Have you even Dipped the oil on a vRS yet,  Hot or Cold?

 

A CAR THAT USES LESS THAN 0.5 LITRES IN 1000 km, 

CAN STILL BE A 'FAIL'.

JUST BECAUSE THAT IS SKODAS FIGURE IN A OWNERS MANUAL IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE,

& THEY KNOW THE ENGINES THAT HAD POOR QUALITY CONTROL OF PARTS,

ALSO THE ENGINE MANAGEMENT.

 

THAT IS WHY THEY REVISED THE ENGINE, PARTS & ENGINE MANAGEMENT LATE 2012.

[vrskeith]

Stirling,

 

There will always be heated banter on this subject.

 

Read and extract the detail that matters from the most recent two threads.

 

"CAVE &CTHE REPLACEMENT" 

 

"vRS ENGINE REPLACEMENT,ARE CUSTOMERS GETTING CONSISTENT TREATMENT"

 

There is enough good quality information in these for you to structure your action plan with both the dealer and Skoda UK.   

 

If you contact your Mum's dealer about booking in a Consumption test (after you have done some basic calcs) also quote them your vehicles Vin No. and ask them to check for a Service Campaign on it, for the DSG oil change and ECU update .

[Brian69]

There are endless threads suggesting that most examples of the vRS use almost as much oil as petrol.

 

There are are a fair number of threads describing the inadequacies of the dipstick and whether it should be used when the engine is cold or hot (whatever that means).

 

People add vague, unsubstantiated, unscientific, nonsensical posts along the lines of "Freddie Starr drank my oil!".  The best advice you can take from here is to keep an accurate, detailed record of ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING related to Skoda and your Mother's vRS.

 

 

Unfortunately if your vRS uses ½ litre of oil over 1001 kilometres you probably don't have a leg to stand on; if your vRS uses ½ litre of oil over 999 kilometres you might get somewhere with a fair bit of effort :(

 

 

Good luck with a thoroughly enjoyable if somewhat unsophisticated car with what should be a simply fantastic engine and gearbox combination that you will probably never see again.

An unacceptably high number, yes, most, no.

[Ootohere]

vxh26

 

There is a thread on this page,

i posted the Pages from the VW Polo Owners manual.

 

That tells about checking the oil at 'Operating Temperature',   That is what is often described as a 'Hot Dip'.

(Operating Temperature is after the Thermostat opens and that will be above 80*0c on a Twincharger.)

Not starting a car and idle for 5 minutes and the oil gets 'Warm'.

 

The Skoda Fabia manual for the same engines says 'Warm',.    

 

Now 'warm' and 'Operating Temperature' really are different things',  hense confusion with some.

 

The 1.2 44kW engine is the one that is supposed to be dipped Cold, according to the Owners Manuals.

 

Skoda Fabia Mk 2 Manual, says.

"CAUTION,

Always check oil on vehicles with engine 1.2 ltr/44kW when the engine is cold,

on other vehicles when the engine is warm.

Otherwise the measure result is incorrect and oil can be incorrect if replenished-risk of engine damage.

etc  etc  ....................."

 

post #13 shows the VW Manual, different words/translation from the Skoda manual.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/315136-oil-consumption-test

[vxh26]

Yup, fair comment, an unacceptably high number not most (i.e. 50%)

 

However, I stand by two observations:

1. An owner MUST religiously record every last relevant fact and conversation if s/he has any hope of convincing Skoda that a problem with out of spec oil consumption must be corrected at Skoda's expense.
2. Assessing oil consumption and level does seem to be something of a lottery - weight, temperature, spirit level, phase of the moon, days in the month, etc., etc., etc.

If the vRS didn't typically consume oil at the rate that it seems to do, none of this would be of any consequence. I have had cars where the only time that the oil is ever replenished or even checked is on the annual service (i.e. every 10,000 miles or so) - Skoda recommend that the oil level is checked every time you fill up with petrol (i.e. every 400 miles or so) - this is clearly unacceptable!

[Ootohere]

I think many of us that have had vehicles that never require oil top ups, ever between services.

& some will have had bikes, cars, vans that did require oil regularly.

So checks and top ups, it is why Oil gets sold at Filling Stations, people buy expensive 1 litre bottles

@ expensive retailers because a top up was required then and there.

 

You seem not to accept that many vRS Twinchargers, the majority consume virtually no oil.

Oil usage being just as would be expected as they are driven.

Some are used long and hard and never use a drop of oil.

 

The 'Owners Manuals'  for  Skoda, VW, Seat & Audi  recommend oil is checked every tank fill up,

this is for 3 & 4 Cylinder Diesel & Petrol Engines 1.2, 1.4, 1.6,.

Nothing specific to the 1.4 TSI Dual Charger, 132-136 kW.

 

* Note, no mention of when you check the oil when you "fill up with petrol",  

it is not specific to 'petrol' cars in the owners manual.*

It is just when you fill the tank, that being because the advice covers diesels as well as petrols.

 

Fabia Owners Manual says,

"It is normal for the engine to consume oil.

The oil consumption may be as much as 0.5l/1000 km depending on your style of driving and the conditions under which you operate the vehicle.

The oil consumption may be slightly higher than this during the first 5,000 km.

 

One should therefore check the oil at regular intervals, preferably every time after the tank is filled or after driving long stretches."

etc etc  

 

Now that is for All Fabia engines as the Owners Manual covers them all.

& different cars do different distances on a Tank full.

 

Skoda/VW just cover their arses,

They should Write Better Manuals and build more constant engines probably,

rarther than try to cover their arses.

[Ootohere]

vxh26.

Just a simple question since you have studied all the theory on the subject.

 

When you test drove 3 different vRS, did you try dipping the oil, before or after driving them,

so that you could speak on the subject from experience of looking at the dipstick

and seeing where a car might be turned out by a workshop with differing quantities of oil in ?

 

None of this is complicated, 

the Under 1.4 00 cc International Engine of the year for 4 years in a row can be badly built with poor quality parts, and faulty Engine Management, and some of these fail.

 

http://ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/1_14.php

 

a 3 year old article.

http://thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/01/who-killed-the-twincharger

[Brian69]

It was remiss of me not to say that I hope the OP's mother gets the problem satisfactorily resolved.

[Ootohere]

Brian,

have you noticed that Red cars seem to need the least oil checking and use little if no oil.?

Red cars also seem to be the ones that have least had issues.

maybe there are just less Red ones about.

[OzFabia]

From memory, Toyota defines unacceptable oil usage as 1L per 8000km in Corollas. Using that (not unreasonable) level, I'd be interested in knowing whether the "majority" of these motors use too much oil.

 

Mine would fall into that category, as it uses, depending on weather and length of trips etc, between .2 to .5L per 1000km (about 7L over 26,000 to date). To be honest, compared to other cars I've had that are (a) built after the 1970's and (b)less than 20 years old, it's the only one I've had to do more than occasionally confirm that the oil level hasn't moved more than a millimetre or two between services.

Edited 25 May, 2014 by OzFabia

[StirlingMG]

Well this all makes for interesting reading & is much appreciated, as has already been mentioned How do we know the oil was up to the mark when the car was delivered? maybe the dealer didn't fill it right up but time will tell as I'm going to be keeping a close eye on it

[vxh26]

<snip> How do we know the oil was up to the mark when the car was delivered? maybe the dealer didn't fill it right up <snip>

Now that is a VERY good question; I must admit that I have never thought to check the oil level when first I picked up either a new or a second hand car.

 

<snip>

The 'Owners Manuals'  for  Skoda, VW, Seat & Audi recommend oil is checked every tank fill up,

this is for 3 & 4 Cylinder Diesel & Petrol Engines 1.2, 1.4, 1.6,.

Nothing specific to the 1.4 TSI Dual Charger, 132-136 kW.

<snip>

Is unacceptably high oil consumption an issue with all three and four cylinder diesel and petrol engined Skoda, VW, Seat & Audi vehicles then? As a matter of interest, does the Octavia range suffer the same problems?

[Ootohere]

Unacceptable high oil consumption is obviously unacceptable and should clearly not be accepted

& it is just figures like '0.5 ltr/1000 km' the Volkswagen Audi Group publish for when they build engines with poor tolerances or Quality Control.  

Which they are kind of known for over the years,

Arse covering.

 

Best ask about Octavias engines in the Octavia Section.

 

Best buy a Kia or the likes that comes with a 7 year warranty, 

and no suggestion of ridiculous Oil Consumption as being acceptable.

[StirlingMG]

Unacceptable high oil consumption is obviously unacceptable and should clearly not be accepted

 

Ah yes I can accept what you're saying but..............................  

[newbie69]

Best thing is to start monitoring for yourself. Even if you don't follow religiously Skoda's vague instructions, stick to your own method but try to reproduce it every time. The two most important factors for me are: Same place and cool-down time. Starting from the same Oil Temp could also be nice but that's just about it. After 3 checks with the above factors identical every time, I believe you could be safely deducting some solid figures on your engine's taste and see whether you're actually having a silly consumption which could get you an engine replacement or not.

 

I don't want to break it to you but expecting this car to not use "a drop of oil" as George suggested above is a very optimistic thought. There are maybe a few like that but most of these cars do use some which is however less than 500ml/1000KM and the owners usually can live with it. And that concerns not only the Fabia vRS minority but the Polo and Ibiza majorities out there.

 

What is acceptable or unacceptable, whether it's a good design or not and all the rest of this theoretical talk won't change the fact that after 4 years that these engines are out, they have created a name for themselves for a reason. Exaggerated a bit from forums? Could be, but you just have to accept it's a possibility when you buy a 1.4 Twincharged TSI. If you really don't want to ever have to worry about the dipstick I would say it's the wrong car to choose. I don't have a problem with that, I like to check regularly and don't mind the minor cost of topping up every now and then so I love mine. Would I recommend the car to a friend who is not very "technical" about cars and can't/won't bother ever opening the bonnet? Definitely no. I have no interest in protecting Skoda's image or any other brand's in that sense, or try to minimise my car's depreciation buy denying what I've read and experienced over these last 4 years.

 

That is why I say, do start checking, deduct the figures and see how you'll proceed bearing in mind a top-up every now and then will hardly be a surprise. As long as this stays between acceptable (FOR YOU) figures, it can't ruin the car's ownership. I know people driving a Mazda RX-8, 207 RC, Cooper S, all with higher oil consumption than mine and they all love their cars and would re-buy them if they had to. Same for me.

Edited 26 May, 2014 by newbie69

[StirlingMG]

 

 

I don't want to break it to you but expecting this car to not use "a drop of oil" as George suggested above is a very optimistic thought. There are maybe a few like that but most of these cars do use some which is however less than 500ml/1000KM and the owners usually can live with it. And that concerns not only the Fabia vRS minority but the Polo and Ibiza majorities out there.

 

 

 

I hear what you're saying but nobody was expecting anything of the sort but to be off the stick twice in a thousand miles seems a bit much....................my old 850R has done 240,000 miles, leaks a bit & smokes a bit & it still doesn't use that much

[newbie69]

But I never said it's the best engine out there or a faultless one. I merely understood you were not familiar with the oil consumption issue and wanted to give you an idea of what is the situation with it. If this engine, with its own pros and cons is good for you, only you can be the judge of that. Now that you mention it, my phone barely makes it to 2 days of battery runtime. I remember I once used to charge my phone once per week, but I don't see any real comparison between my old Nokia and my current Nexus otherwise I would have sticked with that. Also, how much is "that much"? Have you calculated any numbers for yours or we are talking about the "official" 500ml/1000KM figure?

[StirlingMG]

Sorry didn't mean it to come across like that..................I have become aware that these cars can have a drink problem where oil is concerned & was quite prepared to have to buy my mother a gallon of oil to keep in the boot but I was shocked that after only approx. 1000 miles it's had to be topped up twice..................I think a litre & a half in total. The point of the thread was to ascertain what is the norm & what is excessive, personally I think it's excessive especially as she doesn't drive it hard. She has spoken to the dealer who told her to keep an eye on it which I am doing ie how many miles since last top up & how much oil it takes

[newbie69]

Ok, it's not general talk any more then. If you know for a fact you've added 1.5L in 1000 miles it should be certainly going in for a new engine and a simple consumption test at any decent dealership should prove it. What is considered normal for Skoda and VW is exactly what is stated in the manual: 500ml/1000KM. What is considered normal or acceptable for various owners can vary vastly and is another discussion obviously.

 

It doesn't sound good, but just to make sure this is not due to an under-fill from where you've bought it, I would make sure I top-up to the correct level and then carry out the check with my own respected procedure after ~650 miles (1050 KM). Just take care to carry out your top-up and 650 mile check under the same conditions. That way you can know for a fact what has been burned and then it should be a straightforward procedure with Skoda. Won't be the first time they will need to deal with something like that.

Edited 26 May, 2014 by newbie69

[StirlingMG]

Quite agree with you, none of us know how much oil was in to start with so at this early stage it's impossible to say how much it's used. I'll be checking the oil every Thursday night & making a note of the mileage & how much if any oil it needed (haha IF ANY was I being optimistic there?  ) trouble is it can sometimes stand for days on end if they have nowhere to go so this may take a while.............having said that they're on holiday soon so I could run around in it & keep an eye on things.

[Ootohere]

Is it possible when parking to be on the flat,

and before driving or starting the car after sitting, dip the oil and see where it is.?

 

It should be above the Cross Hatch Area when stone cold and on the flat with 3.6 litres of oil in.

 

If you can do a cold check and know where that is,

then next time you have the engine up to temperature, check the oil after 5 minutes of stopping.

you know both levels.

 

Then just be sure never to fill above the Cold Check level if you do not to top up.

Add small quantities of oil only,

Unless it is obvious it has used loads, then you fill it to enough to drive the car to the dealers,

Leave it until they resolve the faulty engine,

collect a Courtesy car.

Skoda Provided a 3 Year Warranty,.  an Approved Used Skoda has a 12 month Warranty,

Skoda UK & Skoda Dealerships know what needs doing.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/294051-cave-cthe-14tsi-just-reply-please-if-you-have-had-an-engine-replaced

 

george

[StirlingMG]

George.............You ARE David Bailley & I claim my ten pounds

 

In all seriousness though your advice is muchly appreciated, I will keep you updated of my findings as & when

[vrskeith]

George.............You ARE David Bailley & I claim my ten pounds

 

In all seriousness though your advice is muchly appreciated, I will keep you updated of my findings as & when

Stirling,

 

Have your contacted Skoda UK yet via e-mail, to raise the Case No.?

 

Next time it amber alarms, put in 0.5 ltr, until next alarm and check mileage .Simples!

 

Then get it booked in for Consumption Test.

[StirlingMG]

I haven't but I've told my mother to.

 

That in theory is quite a good idea actually but how safe is it to let it keep going to the amber light?