After 2 years of happy (and) swift motoring in a BMW 535d since selling my mk2 vRS Estate I'm getting a bit fed up of having my trousers pulled down whenever I approach a petrol station. I've decided that its time to come back to the vRS and save some of my hard earned cash.

I think i'm there with the spec:

DSG Estate in race blue

Columbus Sat nav

Variable boot floor

Upgraded stereo system

Sunset glass

Keyless entry

Leather seats (with red detail)

Towbar prep

However I cant make my mind up what engine to have. I've done the maths and on my current annual mileage (c. 12,000) it will cost me about £400 extra over the lifetime of the car to have a petrol which should give a closer driving experience to that of the BMW or do I follow my head and opt for the oil burner?

My usual commute takes me 35mile each way from Medway to Canary Wharf through the Blackwall Tunnel but I think any economy gains from the diesel are ruined by short trips around town.

What are your thoughts? Heart (petrol) or head (diesel)

Petrol is really the one to have so long as you can resolve the fact it wont bw particularly economical (VAG state a 45mpg average but if you get low mid 30's from what ive read on here you'd be doing well) and it will depreciate more strongly than the diesel.

Seeing as you run a (assuming fairly new F10) 535d I can see how an Octavia represents good value and will cost less; my only concerns really would be that the 535d is arguably all round a better car and considerably quicker....are you certain (or particularly bothered) that moving back to an Octavia wont be a bit of a disappointment by comparison?

Edited 31 July, 201411 yr by pipsyp

Thats the concern I have. My 535d is an E61 remapped to 300bhp or there abouts so the diesel will be a massive drop in performance (What with loosing a turbo and 2 cylinders) however the prospect of being in the region of £150-200 a month better off is much more attractive

If its about cost the TDi will be the way to go.

In fairness the new 184ps TDi motor is excellent and is hardly a slow car; just not fast by your current standards :-)

On a personal note I currently run a 2.0 150 TDi Elegance....its a bit cheaper than a vRS TDi, arguably slightly better equipped (standard nav,folding mirrors etc) and not a great deal slower as its a good 100kg lighter than the vRS. Be worth a look I think if you can get past the ordinary-ness of it. Proving to be a half quick cheap means of transport.

....all that said as you arent averse to mapping the TSi vRS can be mapped up to about 315hp they reckon (APR).....suppose then its performance will be very similar if not better

I have Vrs tsi dsg estate, with only 2000 miles so far. Around town & 8 miles each way for work on dual carriageway at 70 ish... Its currently 32mpg. On a 50 mile each way run 35 mpg. Started around town at 26mpg. Going by my last 2 1.8 tsi's. It should improve.But not till around 8000 miles. I drive eco, but fast and love to sport on the stick to overtake.

What figures are you using to get your fuel costs from?

 

Fuel economy figures are one of these things which are always difficult to project however my TDi vRS certainly doesn't get anywhere near the economy Skoda claim, I rarely get more than 42mpg from mine although I'm aware I have one of the lowest on the forums.

 

Remember that the road tax is more on the petrol as well. 

 

Personally I'd recommend between the two to stuff the fuel economy and the depreciation and get the petrol as long as it's not going to bankrupt you.  I certainly wished I had, in my case SWMBO put her foot down and said the diesel was "fast enough", although she's now wanting a more powerful car next time.

Cheers for your help guys. I was basing my calculations on the official combined figures as they are closer to the real life extra urban ones.

I'be contacted motor line at Gillingham to try and get a test drive in one of each.

The thought of remapping the petrol to 315bhp is very tempting but something tells me there would be a monumental hit to the fuel economy

I used to have a 535d though not remapped.....probably the best motorway cruiser I've ever experienced but as you say hardly economical for a diesel. I have a petrol vrs combi now - I'm not the person to ask as we only do c. 5k a year so economy not as big an issue but I guarantee you will LOVE the feel of the petrol vrs vs the 535 simply as it's so much lighter and responsive...night and day in my opinion as the 535 always felt BIG with a delay before torque ignited the mass....

Coming from a BMW 3.5d V6 the VRS TDI engine will feel a bit naff. The TSI is well worth the extra running costs if money is not too tight. I am averaging 27mpg within mine, but 80% of my trips are town (London) driving.

Don't forget to order a spare wheel also....

I voted Petrol. No one would choose diesel if cost wasnt an issue. For the low milage you do, would you rather enjoy the hell out of the car for a few years, or drive around thinking about how much you are saving? Not saying the diesel vRS isnt a good thing, but the petrol is definitely nicer. Petrol also has a much larger power range (and torque range) so more of the revs are usable. Throw a tune on (APR or your tuner of choice) and the car is a weapon! Baby Audi S.

 

EDIT: Accountants would vote diesel. Drivers and enthusiasts would vote petrol.

Edited 1 August, 201411 yr by GTR27

Based on your mileage and current car I would go for petrol. I had an F10 520d for 3 years and it was an excellent car albeit nowhere near as quick as the 535d you have. I have no concerns swapping to the VRS I'm waiting for, I've gone for diesel due to my 30k annual mileage even though I was very tempted by the petrol version.

This is a good question to post.

I am currently speccing my dream vRS to ultimately replace my current one (known affectionately as Bismark) and although the final spec is getting near to being sorted, finances permitting, the question over the engine remains and for me is a big one.

Like the OP, my mileage now sits at about 12.5k, it dropping significantly shortly after the arrival of Bismark.

OP mentions that the additional cost is £400 over the lifetime which I assume refers to the fuel cost and is based on a 3 year lease or something. Is this based on claimed figures or is it considering real world fuel economy which often is a quite different story?

Haven't checked properly yet but assume the petrols are more to road tax and sit in a higher insurance group too not that the latter should bother me too much at my age!

I see from your op you say you're a swift driver and that fuel costs are the reason you're wanting a change. That rules out the tsi really as drive it quickly and by comparison the tdi will be much better on fuel. I recon you'll get closer to the urban figures for fuel consumption myself, though obviously it will depend on driving style so you could reset the computer on both the test drives/choose the option that only returns mpg for that journey to get an idea what you get. The extra cost of the tdi engine will be easily recovered at trade in though as if the residuals on the mk3 are similar to the mk2 you'll take quite a hit come trade in time if you get a petrol and as depreciation is the single biggest running cost if cost of ownership is important to you don't forget to include it- the dealer will have info on this. If they are cagey ask about a pcp for your 12k a year as that will give a good idea.. Road Tax is also cheaper. If the tdi isn't quick enough for you you could always add a dtuk tuning box or get it remapped later. Try them both as you say. The tsi is now doubt the quicker car, it's then a question of priorities and which of the 2 ticks most boxes for you. Good luck.

Ved on tdi is free for the 1st year then £30 onwards. Petrol I think is £135/year.

Although the general direction of the wind seems to have shifted against diesel again so that may change.

 

However I cant make my mind up what engine to have. I've done the maths and on my current annual mileage (c. 12,000) it will cost me about £400 extra over the lifetime of the car to have a petrol which should give a closer driving experience to that of the BMW or do I follow my head and opt for the oil burner?

My usual commute takes me 35mile each way from Medway to Canary Wharf through the Blackwall Tunnel but I think any economy gains from the diesel are ruined by short trips around town.

What are your thoughts? Heart (petrol) or head (diesel)

 

How did you work out the figure of £400?

 

Based on 10,000 miles a year the diesel would save you between £500 and £700 per year just in fuel alone. Add in the saving in road tax (£30 vs £145?) and you save another £115. Add in the faster depriciation of the petrol and its even higher.

 

You'll break even within 4 months ownership (based on the extra cost of the diesel) and every month after will be a saving.

 

Regarding short trips - My commute is 7-9 miles each way and I still get to 52 mpg (average) by the time I arrive (Medway to Gravesend) although granted I am not sitting in the blackwall tunnel traffic.

 

However, coming from a 535 you'll wish you went for the petrol if you're after speed.

Edited 1 August, 201411 yr by JamesVRSmk3

<Voted Diesel>

 

I'm also interested how you came to the £400 figure... Have you been offered a serious discount on the TSi?

 

When I bought my TDi the VRS was a grand more on RRP - After haggling down both, the difference was ~ £700 I believe. GMFV on the TDi was about two grand higher too (10.5K) with a mileage of 15K/year. I do mixed driving with mine and average 50mpg (more on motorway tanks) and leave it in ECO unless I fancy a bit of fun on a b-road / Peaks....  

 

I do have an MG for my weekend hooliganism, so my needs may differ from the OP - My vRS is my "workhorse with a difference"

I must drive like an old lady... I can easily get 40mpg out of my vrs tsi dsg.... I went from a 335D to the VRS...

I must drive like an old lady... I can easily get 40mpg out of my vrs tsi dsg.... I went from a 335D to the VRS...

Where as I struggle to get more than 45 out of my tdi. It just goes to show how pointless manufacturers mpg figures are.

I wonder if the OP can get a 24hr test drive of each or at least the petrol and try to get an idea of the figures.

This is what I'm hoping to do next time.

How often do people actually get the chance to fully appreciate their petrol?

 

I can't remember the last time my Cupra got a good run, and even then, its sufficiently quick (like either vrs) that legally you don't get to have much fun anyway.

 

I guess it comes down to the roads you drive, but personally, i couldn't justify a petrol.

Don't drive mine hard often, the torque makes for such a relaxing drive and it's a nice place to be... So I'm rarely in a rush to get out... Just enjoy the drive.

After coming from a PD TDI Passat which didn't feel that different from the CR vrs I test drove I can say the TSI vrs is a much more relaxing car to drive when your not exploring its power. Its so smooth and more refined than the diesel, it just feels effortless. The only advice I can give is drive them and see how the performance vs economy balance compare to your BMW

Edited 1 August, 201411 yr by V6Jules

With plans for subjecting diesels to additional congestion charges, and proposals for changing Road Tax so that it includes heavy metal content, it could soon become as expensive to run diesel as it is for petrol. Residual values will also be hit if/when additional diesel taxes are incurred. Driving a diesel within London could cost £2k more per year than petrol in CC charges alone.

Diesel is much better for CO2 emissions, but far worse for heavy metals and pollutants. The Government may also see diesel as an easy money grab.

Edited 1 August, 201411 yr by Orville

With plans for subjecting diesels to additional congestion charges, and proposals for changing Road Tax so that it includes heavy metal content, it could soon become as expensive to run diesel as it is for petrol. Residual values will also be hit if/when additional diesel taxes are incurred. Driving a diesel within London could cost £2k more per year than petrol in CC charges alone.

Diesel is much better for CO2 emissions, but far worse for heavy metals and pollutants. The Government may also see diesel as an easy money grab.

These "changes" are ideas from Boris Johnson, even if they all come to fruition it won't be until 2020. New cars by then will be Euro 6 which will be exempt. I think the op was looking at what's available now.

So you can be sure, take both on the same daily commute and drive them like you normally would. Sure if you just do a normal test drive and cane the crap out of both i.e use all the rev range etc the petrol will give the most back.

I had a VRS petrol the other day overnight, while they were trying to fix my diesel and and I drove it to work in the same manner as I would drive my normal car. Interestingly contra to other posts here the diesel seemed more refined than the petrol as it runs about 33% less revs everywhere at commuting speeds so it makes less engine noise. The petrol I could hear in places I just don't in the diesel. The petrol also tried to pull 5th gear at some stupid low speed too which it drones at as its too slow for it or keeps switching between 4th and 5th. A manual would be better there.

Performance wise in that driving situation there was no difference either so depends where you drive. There was a noticeable economy difference too almost 50% more in the petrol over the 33kms it takes me to get to work 5.5L vs 7.8L although none of this is motorway.

I did 800kms going skiing and back this Monday too, full boot etc with 2 onboard. Did 56mpg averaging 90kmh and 80% of that is on B roads so not motorways and obviously quite a bit of altitude variance. I seriously doubt the petrol would get anywhere near that in economy.

Although to be fair the petrol in that situation would be useful for the odd occasions where you have small distances to pass cars or you want to pass more than 1 car at once, as it does accelerate noticeably faster from medium speeds and has more revs to play with so you spend less time hanging out in the breeze so to speak. So depends how you drive the car, apart from the extra acceleration above 50mph I don't see any advantage to owning the petrol personally.

Edited 1 August, 201411 yr by snala