Independent England

[The Zee]

OK, so let's assume Scotland goes it alone. What would happen if England decided to do the same. That would leave the United Kingdom consisting of Wales and Northern Ireland.

Would parliament at Westminster move out to Cardiff or Belfast as they couldn't stay in an independent England, could they.

Possibly an extreme break up, but it could happen, couldn't it?

[Ootohere]

Can England finance its own expenditure.? 

 

Is it actually able the be The Bank of Last Resort when its finances are opened for examination?

Can England Finance its Debts?

Does England have Resources & Exports to actually pay for the Imports required?

 

Its Oil & Gas Reserves & Gas from Fracking will not last for ever, 

So once the Pyramid Banking has been exposed and the Financial Services Industry can no longer prop up the South of England,

where is the Money for England to go it alone going to come from.

 

george

[KenONeill]

Will you be outsourcing your air and sea ranges requirements to Scotland or Wales?

How much will you pay for importing water from Wales for places like Birmingham?

Are you prepared to rejoin the EU, UN etc as an accession state?...

[Manatee]

We already have a bonkers situation where NI, Wales and Scotland have their own parliaments but England doesn't.  That should come before independence.

 

Wee Eck and his band are all over the place as far as I can see - they want to be independent of the UK, but to be in the EU - which is only going one way, towards a United States of Europe (some independence).

 

Yorkshire had more people in it than Scotland last time I looked, and they have never elected a Conservative government either.  It makes no less sense for Yorkshire to go for independence than it does Scotland.

 

I hope Scotland doesn't go, but if it does, then unless it has its own currency I can see it sliding into uncompetitiveness, and in any event ending up worse off in terms of living standards after it has blown the oil money.

 

To say that they haven't thought it through is an understatement.

[Ootohere]

So this is the Independent England thread,  and if Scotland does go, & Wales & Northern Ireland.

 

So,  

can England stand alone with the 8 Million in the London Area, and then your places like Yorkshire doing the supporting of the Economy.

 

There is a Big Car Manufacturing & Export Industry.

 

The UK Government Borowed the Money to give Grants for the Overseas Companies to Build the Plants.

 

There is no Steel Mills and the Materials for British Manufacturing in Imported,

There is a lack of Energy and that is Imported & the new Nuclear is being Built with Borrowed money from 

China to pay the French Companies to Build the new Nuclear Reactors.

 

Its just such an amount of Borrowing and depending on other Economies out with the UK and the UK's control 

that has to make you think.

 

Can England pay its way if Independent, and for how long, and what will the standard of living be.?

 

England maybe better stay in the EU, Nato & the UN, it needs all the help it can get.

Greece , Spain and Malta sees to have better prospects than an Independent England.

Edited 11 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[fabdavrav]

I think England can stand on it's own better than Scotland.....................................

 

For starters it has it's own bank with it's own gold reserves & a currency which is held through out the world in high regard.............

 

It has a huge finance sector.....................including all the so called Scottish banks.................who have said they will move to England................    ......  

[Aspman]

Bank of England is actually significantly owned by Scotland.

 

Scottish banks are only proposing moving the official legal location of their headquarters, i.e. the brass plate goes from Edinburgh to London so the company as a whole would be subject to English law and taxation but not much else would change.

 

In reality these big firms will enter into negotiations with Holyrood and Westminster to establish the best deal for them to stay in either location. They'll play the two potential governments off each other to get the best deal for their business. Some will move in either direction some will stay.

 

Nothing will change next Friday.

 

I think whatever happens there will be a big push for regional assemblies in England and more powers for Wales. Big drive to pull back money and influence from London.

[Ootohere]

Banking is like a castle built on sand,

No stability or foundations, and until you dig down you do nit know how near collapse. Let's see how this winter goes and if the UK can produce enough electricity and gas if Putin plays hard ball. London is the Russians banking capital of choice though. What is the worst that can happen?

[nickguzzi]

Its only secure and viable while people think it is. When they stop thinking its safe, well we all know what happened when there was a minor hiccough at Northern Rock. Smoke and Mirrors.

There has not been reserves - other than empty promises - to match the paper in circulation since the ending of the Gold Standard after the First World War. Cue UK's long term love affair with inflation.

The Oligarchs brought billions to Britain, specifically, London. Our illustrious leader hacks'em all off. Brilliant.

[oldtynesider]

I have to state that I have no interest in the Scottish decision wether they leave or  stay, but to be fair to the English ( me ) should we not have had a vote as to wether we let them stay or make them leave?

Bet regards to all

[theezenutz]

Can England finance its own expenditure.?

Is it actually able the be The Bank of Last Resort when its finances are opened for examination?

Can England Finance its Debts?

Does England have Resources & Exports to actually pay for the Imports required?

Its Oil & Gas Reserves & Gas from Fracking will not last for ever,

So once the Pyramid Banking has been exposed and the Financial Services Industry can no longer prop up the South of England,

where is the Money for England to go it alone going to come from.

george

We will invade, rape and pillage a sovereign country that has the resources and interests we require to keep the party going, as we have done throughout most of our history.... Except we the People will see very little of that once the Royals and Corporation's take their chunk.

On a slightly more serious note we don't need to separate from other countries because in the end that will do no one any good. What we need to do is come together, to unite and drive all the leeches, liars, murderers and cheats out of the running of our Countries and ultimately the World. All these corrupt Politicians, Greedy Bankers, Sociopathic CEO's and Sponging Royal Benefit Cheats need to go.

Then we can lead Peaceful, Prosperous Happy lives.

To quote Bill Hicks - “Folks, it's time to evolve. That's why we're troubled. You know why our institutions are failing us, the church, the state, everything's failing? It's because, um – they're no longer relevant. We're supposed to keep evolving. Evolution did not end with us growing opposable thumbs. You do know that, right?”

Edited 11 September, 2014 by theezenutz

[kilted]

Clegg seems to be the first of the main leaders to suggest a more decentralised structure in the future. Wonder if that might regain some ground for them after the losses they have made joining up with the Tories.

[Aspman]

I think regional assemblies are pretty much certain now whatever the result.

[RapidRonnie]

I think England can stand on it's own better than Scotland.....................................

 

 

It has a huge finance sector

 

 

 

Or as it's also known a huge "rate fixing and mis-selling" sector

[tweenster]

I have to state that I have no interest in the Scottish decision wether they leave or  stay, but to be fair to the English ( me ) should we not have had a vote as to wether we let them stay or make them leave?

Bet regards to all

 

Salmond absolutely missed a trick there; the simplest way to GUARANTEE Scottish independence would be to have given the English a vote!

[tweenster]

Clegg seems to be the first of the main leaders to suggest a more decentralised structure in the future. Wonder if that might regain some ground for them after the losses they have made joining up with the Tories.

 

Not a chance; Lib Dems are a dead duck and it's going to take them years to get over this foolish alliance.

[Auric Goldfinger]

OK, so let's assume Scotland goes it alone. What would happen if England decided to do the same. 

 

England will become the " United States of England " the currency would be the doller and we would be the 51st star on the Flag

[Ootohere]

That might be Englands saviour.

 

The Oil is traded in Dollars and the price is down because of US Shale Oil supplies,

and that would be OK if the Pound was not so poor against the Dollar.

[lol-lol]

85% of world trader is in US dollars, we all effectively rely on the USD and its Rate of Exchange effects our inflation rate as one of the key factors.

 

Scotland could choose to peg to the dollar as its income will be so related to it, England is more akined to the Euro where most of its trade lies.

 

Working in "International Trade" I see a very rosy future with massive bureacracy if Scotland leave the Union and Rest of UK leaves the EU.  Huge amounts of extra work an income for my industry of moving goods across international borders. Every McCloud......

Edited 13 September, 2014 by lol-lol

[Ootohere]

Deutsche Bank warnings,  many Banks Warnings,  they are very nice to let Scottish People know the Risks,

 

?

Is there a risk to the Banks and the European Economy, & that is if Scotland Votes for Independence on Thursday

there is lots to come out about the liquidity of the Banks, the Central Banks & the actual Reserves held.

 

The Trillions owed in Europe & the US is owed to someone, and that someone is China,

The Banking World might be in for a major kick up the backside, and a need for more honesty.

 

At least George Osborne MP & Mark Carney Governor of the Bank of England & Chairman of the G20's Stability Board 

will be in the UK on Friday rather than at the G20 meeting in Australia.

 

They may have a rather busy days Thursday & Friday, stopping runs on the Bank and the likes,

Crashes in the Market.

& people making a Fortune as others lose theirs.    Like Deutsche Bank Customers & Investors.

 

http://thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/osborne-cancels-g20-talks-visit-1.573272

Edited 13 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[lol-lol]

I think the quantum change has already started.

 

Whilst the GBP/USD has temporarily stabilized at 1.62 USD to a GBP it was at 1.72 only a few weeks ago.

 

I have seen my pension pot devalue by about £1K already this week as will other with equity components of their pension value.

 

Even if Scotland take a £100B or so of the UK debt that still leave a debt which has grown from £750B to almost £1.5 Trillion under this coalition to face up to which they have failed to do other than cutting nurses, teachers and other civil servants wages and pensions.  Growth is anemic compared to other recovery phases after previous recessions and we have record debts to face.

 

Anyone got a GBP printing press? 

[Ootohere]

That is it though and you if anyone must know how it works,

Pension Pots can go up as well as down.

 

If the amount was guaranteed, it would be 'Fixed Amounts',  and Markets, Traders and Fund Managers would not earn more 

or get bigger Pensions than those that they gamble their money.

To Make or Earn Money, it needs to come from others, and that has always just been poorer peoples money,

the money they work to earn just to survive on, or have some comforts in life.

Grabbed and Creamed off so that the Financial Industries Top People and their Supporters can have Luxuries.

 

Even when they mismanage others, Earning, Savings & Investments / Pensions, they earn a very good Income, then take Management Fees, & a Percentage,

and also get Bonuses,

Edited 13 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[DarrellGB]

We already have a bonkers situation where NI, Wales and Scotland have their own parliaments but England doesn't.  That should come before independence.

 

Wee Eck and his band are all over the place as far as I can see - they want to be independent of the UK, but to be in the EU - which is only going one way, towards a United States of Europe (some independence).

 

Yorkshire had more people in it than Scotland last time I looked, and they have never elected a Conservative government either.  It makes no less sense for Yorkshire to go for independence than it does Scotland.

 

I hope Scotland doesn't go, but if it does, then unless it has its own currency I can see it sliding into uncompetitiveness, and in any event ending up worse off in terms of living standards after it has blown the oil money.

 

To say that they haven't thought it through is an understatement.

Now that's a campaign i would back, Yorkshire already feels independent though due to unofficial rulership of the North

[lol-lol]

That is it though and you if anyone must know how it works,

Pension Pots can go up as well as down.

 

If the amount was guaranteed, it would be 'Fixed Amounts',  and Markets, Traders and Fund Managers would not earn more 

or get bigger Pensions than those that they gamble their money.

To Make or Earn Money, it needs to come from others, and that has always just been poorer peoples money,

the money they work to earn just to survive on, or have some comforts in life.

Grabbed and Creamed off so that the Financial Industries Top People and their Supporters can have Luxuries.

 

Even when they mismanage others, Earning, Savings & Investments / Pensions, they earn a very good Income, then take Management Fees, & a Percentage,

and also get Bonuses,

 

Well I was planning to be as bullet proof, and ethical, as possible, by choosing, conservative, with a small "c" of course, pension choices of where to invest, but even choosing such a profile apparently has its up and downs even though I thought I was mainly in bonds, gilts etc.

 

Considerable part off my pension, like many tens of millions of others is based on a fixed amount pegged to state and civil service pension and although now pegged to the lower CPI rather than RPI that is now wilting under the Con-Dems austerity measures so one feels the need to enhance private pension to compensate for the diminishing state and civil service pension provisions, diminishing on when you will start receiving it as well as amount.

 

Many of the management fees sound quite good at much less than 1% but when pension pots are going down in value and they still take their fee it does really look awful. It is only the reality of avoiding the 40 / 20% tax that would have been levied against the earnings that helps one think that is doing well from the concession of tax exemption of pension contributions.

 

The worry is that I country like England/NI/Wales so deeply in debt ie 25K for every man, woman and child, where is the repayment going to come from. I hope there is a lot of Shale gas or some other manna from heaven to save us too!  

Edited 13 September, 2014 by lol-lol

[TroyChallenger]

The UK debt (which would be shared on any yes vote) is tied into shared assets bought with that debt.  It's like leaving your wife with a £10k credit card bill but also leaving her with the car, washing machine, plasma tv and laptop that were purchased with the credit card.

If an independent Scotland takes it's share of these assets, then it is obliged to take its share of the debt.  If it takes the assets but refuses to take a share of the debt, then it is defaulting on the debt.

 

And then at some point the UK government will issue sanctions.

 

These could and probably would initially involve a freezing of Scottish assets in UK banks. This would have the effect of preventing credit transfers between the UK and Scotland.

If, however, Scotland is denied a share of the assets, then it has no obligation to take its share of the debt and therefore cannot be defaulting.

There's a UN Convention on it.