Budget big brake upgrade?

[theezenutz]

I have XP8s in my clio which I use as a track car. Awesome pad but verging on overkill for the road and you need to bed these in well ( i.e. Hammer till smoking) to avoid constant brake squeal which again using my noddle and experience (see above) might be difficult on road and with vrs callipers. I think they do a road pad - bobcat IIRC - and if it's as good as the XP8s it will be perfectly sufficient.

Looking at just over 200 for a set of XP8s.

I understand what you are saying the Bobcat is supposed to be a road pad and xp8's are designed for the track. The reason i've mentioned them is because they get very good reviews on the Pulsar forum for fast road and track, the Pulsar weighs quite a bit less at roughly 1150kg's and they too use single pot calipers standard.

 

A common brake upgrade for the Pulsar is twin pot Evo or Fto calipers with 280mm Clio 172 disk's.

 

Just a thought.

[Xavier]

From standard brakes, upgrade options I've come across are:

312mm Octy vRS setup

323mm Brembo GT 4-pot (what I currently have but am changing to)

330mm D2 Racing / K-Sport 6-pot which will clear 17" allows easier than the brembos will. Just ordered a set with DS2500 pads. Can't wait

[nicknameless]

I understand what you are saying the Bobcat is supposed to be a road pad and xp8's are designed for the track. The reason i've mentioned them is because they get very good reviews on the Pulsar forum for fast road and track, the Pulsar weighs quite a bit less at roughly 1150kg's and they too use single pot calipers standard.

 

A common brake upgrade for the Pulsar is twin pot Evo or Fto calipers with 280mm Clio 172 disk's.

 

Just a thought.

They are great pads. The brakes on the clio are awesome standard and plenty enough for the road and pretty good with standard pads / discs on track. The XP8 are a level above the standard pad but I bought them for track work primarily, but they do work well as a road pad with great bite from cold. Important as you will not get these up to optimal temp on the road.

[AnotherGareth]

Yeah im in a mapped VRS, the brakes are shocking!

 

It definitely sounds like there is something wrong with the brakes; with the normal setup you should be able to lock the wheels at 70 mph. The two main reasons for wanting bigger brakes are to avoid fade through repeated application, or for looks.

[theezenutz]

It definitely sounds like there is something wrong with the brakes; with the normal setup you should be able to lock the wheels at 70 mph. The two main reasons for wanting bigger brakes are to avoid fade through repeated application, or for looks.

Good point. i'd imagine that due to the fact that he's remapped the car he has possibly cooked the brakes, by increasing the size of the disk's there will be less chance of the brakes fading unless you drive like a loon all the time.

[Tim497]

Hello,

I haven't found a suitable thread on this topic yet and think it's appropriate here.

It's about the brakes on a Fabia 6y2 1.4 16v 75 hp (discs front, drums rear). Previously, I had an A3 8P with 288mm front brake discs (and discs rear) and generally good braking performance. Compared to that, the Fabia just feels very poor and, in my opinion, unsafe (late, sluggish, weak braking behavior).

Is there anyone here who has converted their Fabia to 288 mm brakes at the front and can report whether it's worth it/makes sense and how the braking behavior is afterwards?

I am simply very dissatisfied with the OEM brakes in the Fabia; it just doesn't feel safe.

Since the brake discs and pads are uneven, the wheel hub probably has a lateral run-out, and I need new winter tires anyway, I thought about maybe upgrading the brakes directly.

Does anyone have experience with this? Are there any problems with the strut, steering, handling, etc.? Approval?

(Of course, the prerequisite is the correct steering knuckle, brake system, e.g., 1.9 TDI RS/mk2 Fabia from 105 hp, and 15-inch rims)

Thank you very much in advance.

[rum4mo]

My wife had a 2002 VW Polo with that engine (and rear disc brakes), its brakes, from new, never felt adequate, then she bought a new VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS and it has 288mm front discs (and rear disc brakes), the brakes in that 2015 Polo feel adequate!

Incidentally, my 2000 VW Passat 4Motion had these same 288mm front brakes, and they never felt adequate in that car, the facelifted version of that Passat, I think, got bigger front brakes - not before time!

[Tim497]

10 hours ago, rum4mo said:

My wife had a 2002 VW Polo with that engine (and rear disc brakes), its brakes, from new, never felt adequate, then she bought a new VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS and it has 288mm front discs (and rear disc brakes), the brakes in that 2015 Polo feel adequate!

Incidentally, my 2000 VW Passat 4Motion had these same 288mm front brakes, and they never felt adequate in that car, the facelifted version of that Passat, I think, got bigger front brakes - not before time!

Good to know that they came like this out of the factory. I mean the car drives and it brakes, it just feels unsafe and unstable.

So was wondering if only 288mm upgrade helped.

[sepulchrave]

I had 256 front discs on my 100 BHP 1.4 16V Fabia and I upgraded them with Brembo Max discs and pads which was a useful improvement, however my tool-eater Fabia has the 288's and the difference is night and day, doubly so since I upgraded them with MTEC discs and EBC pads.

[Tim497]

Thanks for the info/experience. Do you know by chance if your "tool eater" fabia only has bigger brakes, or also a diffrent brake booster and master cylinder. Since i was looking into this as well. Some people upgrade their master cyclinder and saw significant improvment.

[sepulchrave]

4 hours ago, Tim497 said:

Thanks for the info/experience. Do you know by chance if your "tool eater" fabia only has bigger brakes, or also a diffrent brake booster and master cylinder. Since i was looking into this as well. Some people upgrade their master cyclinder and saw significant improvment.

 

I'd be surprised if they're different, maybe one of the aspies crowd can pore over the parts catalogue and tell us if they're a different part or not.

[Breezy_Pete]

Part numbers for all 2005 Fabia brake-related stuff can be found here, help yourself Tim: Car Parts Catalog - LLLParts

 

[Tim497]

Since my reply i already looked into etka, they are diffrent. Fabia mk1 is basically on of the small amount of cars that got the "bad" master cyclinder. The Fabia MC are 20,6mm diamater, Golf 4 audi etc. are 22 mm atleast most of them even 23,8 mm. From my short research seems to make the diffrence in break feel, respone. 

Only bad thing is that they arent easily interchangable, since the Brake Booster is also diffrent on the fabia compared to the others. At the moment im looking into this, if i got a solution and tested it out im gonna do a post about it.

 

Or maybe somebody already did that upgrade to his fabia and can tell us 

[Tim497]

Thanks for the reply, the link throws me to google hompage (maybe because im sitting in Germany). 

 

I was wondering specifally if the above described sympthoms in my orginal post are completley gone after a new brake and disc upgrade, from my research till now, that doesnt seem the case. Maybe somebody has more knowledge or expierence. 

Since my fabia is also an underpowered slow car with drum brakes in the rear, i was wondering if people already did this if there were any complications.

[sepulchrave]

5 hours ago, Tim497 said:

Thanks for the reply, the link throws me to google hompage (maybe because im sitting in Germany). 

 

I was wondering specifally if the above described sympthoms in my orginal post are completley gone after a new brake and disc upgrade, from my research till now, that doesnt seem the case. Maybe somebody has more knowledge or expierence. 

Since my fabia is also an underpowered slow car with drum brakes in the rear, i was wondering if people already did this if there were any complications.

 

Ok, I'll level with you, based on experience the small increase in piston diameter from a 256 caliper to a 288 does not warrant a larger master cylinder, if anything a smaller diameter master piston will actually increase braking force due to the increase in mechanical advantage.

So this is a no-brainer really, just buy a pair of complete struts from a scrappy with the 288's already on them, that way you'll definitely have all the parts you need to do the swap. Happy Easter.

[Carlston]

9 hours ago, Tim497 said:

Since my reply i already looked into etka, they are diffrent. Fabia mk1 is basically on of the small amount of cars that got the "bad" master cyclinder. The Fabia MC are 20,6mm diamater, Golf 4 audi etc. are 22 mm atleast most of them even 23,8 mm. From my short research seems to make the diffrence in break feel, respone. 

Only bad thing is that they arent easily interchangable, since the Brake Booster is also diffrent on the fabia compared to the others. At the moment im looking into this, if i got a solution and tested it out im gonna do a post about it.

 

Or maybe somebody already did that upgrade to his fabia and can tell us 

 

According to the Skoda parts catalogue, the Fabia MK1 uses the same master cylinder (OEM part number 6Q0611019Q) if it has anti-lock brakes and either 256x22mm or 288x25mm front brake discs.

 

For example the below chart shows that a Fabia MK1 with build codes 1AN + 1LR would have the 6Q0611019Q master cylinder.

 

Fabia MK1 with master cylinder 6Q0611019Q (20.64mm bore) has the following build codes

 

1AC, 1AN, 1AR, 1AT + 1LN, 1LP, 1LQ, 1LR, 1ZD

 

or written another way...

 

1AC or 1AN or 1AR or 1AT plus 1LN or 1LP or 1LQ or 1LR or 1ZD

 

Skoda parts catalogue

https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/skoda/CZ/FAB/453/6/611/611010

 

The 256x22mm front brakes discs aren't the smallest front brake discs on the Fabia MK1 because there's also 239x18mm. Even now, the Fabia MK4, Scala, and Kamiq models are still using 256x22mm front brake discs on some models. If VAG felt they were underpowered they wouldn't still be using them. I suggest you first fit new OE quality front brake pads such as ATE and new front brake discs if they are badly worn.

 

Edited 28 March by Carlston

[Tim497]

@carlston 

Thanks for your reply and time looking into it.

 

I am aware that the fabia mk1 uses the same mastercylinder for the 256 and 288 brake discs. 

 

Thats what i have wrote above, that from my research the size doesnt seem to be the problem, but the mastercylinder. (Thats why newer models also have 256mm discs, because they have a diffrent master cylinder and brake booster) 

 

I wrote with some Fabia MK1 1.9 tdi rs owners with 288 discs as standard and they complained about the same problems that i described, for that reason some of them changed to diffrent mastercylinders and apparently it made a night and day diffrence (according to them) in terms of break pedal feel and fast "gripping" better/real pressure points instead of a "pressure windows". 

 

Included is a picture of a guy who offered master cylinder upgrades with these parts. 23,8 mm master cylinder, plate and tappet with small nuts in order to fit. According to many comments it made a big diffrence. 

[Tim497]

1.Picture fitted on car

2. Picture:

- top new 23,8 mm master cylinder

-bottom old 20,6 mm master cylinder

3. Parts needed

Edited 28 March by Tim497

[Tim497]

@sepulchrave

That was my first thought also. Im gonna look a little bit more into it and then its either 288 brakes or bigger mastercylinder.

 

Happy easter to you to