Shock - French cars more reliable than German ones !

[Guest]

French cars are perfectly adequate - 51 years with citroen and counting - good value good technology (especially a few years back) and only one

breakdown in all that time, a clutch cable snapped on 10 yr old Xantia. tried and drove all of them except SM and Amiee, best one for fun was a Dyanne - 602cc version of 2CV.

Their suspension system was adopted by RR but to RR spec materials - if it was good enough for RR then ok by me!

[keystonedriving]

To be fair, given the choice between a new Renault engine and a new VAG engine, I'd go with the Renault. They actually build engines really well, just a shame about the rest of the car.

 

Like having a cambelt with no guard so that a problem with the auxiliary drive belt (due to poor pulley design) wipes out the cambelt as well?  Having just about everything electrical fail on the engine at one time or another?  (1.9 dci engine).

 

P**s poor design, p**s poor build quality and p**s poor service in my experience.

 

I'm not going to risk that again, ever.

[Robjon]

P**s poor design, p**s poor build quality and p**s poor service in my experience.

 

I'm not going to risk that again, ever.

 

^^^exactly my own views and experiences.

 

TBF that was seven years ago, so maybe French cars have improved since then...

[mac11irl]

I have read up that yes the laguna 2 was crapping awful but the 3 was a major improvement... as to other cars, swmbo had a 07 206 1.4 petrol for 4yrs that never once gave hassle. Changing bulbs was a knuckle scraping faff, but otherwise it was perfect.. traded it for the citigo, and now.. looks like a possible return to a 208 as the buggy doesnt fit properly in the boot of anything else the size class...

Edited 12 June, 2015 by mac11irl

[Aspman]

Only had one French car. Clio derv.

 

Never had any problems with the engine. In fact the engine was very very good, 100hp, 68mpg average, quiet, smooth etc

 

The rest of the car was a pile of ****e but the engine was good.

[lol-lol]

Had a Renault 5, and 18 and a Citroen Berlingo and all were good mechanically but a little lightweight on the cabin fittings and did not feel as solid a the VW-stable tanks.

 

The Dacia seems to follow that trend but for £10K fully loaded and the fuel consumption is very near the manufacturer's figures ie 40 mpg round town, low 50s average and capable of low 60s on a run, for a petrol !

 

Was always happy to buy Skoda's at an RRP 20% less than VW and then take another 15% off with one of their offers ie no-VAT or whatever, great bargain for a good car but those days are gone as now being expected to pay within 10% or so of VW prices, not so attractive for a plain looking car with poorer residuals, if I get plain I expect well cheap/good technical value.

 

Think the current world car sales rankings is: (Nissan-Renault Alliance would be 4th if combined)

 

Rank Group Country                                            Total Cars     LCV        HCV    Heavy Bus

1 Toyota  Japan                                      10,324,995 8,565,176 1,481,722 272,411 5,686

2 GM  United States                                    9,628,912 6,733,192 2,890,958 4,762  

3 Volkswagen Group  Germany                            9,379,229 9,259,506 119,723    

4 Hyundai  South Korea                                 7,233,080 6,909,194 242,021 67,290 14,575

5 Ford  United States                                  6,077,126 3,317,048 2,667,220 92,858  

6 Nissan  Japan                                        4,950,924 4,090,677 837,331 22,916  

7 Fiat Chrysler Automobiles  Italy /  United States 4,681,704 2,163,040 2,350,697 124,131 43,836

8 Honda  Japan                                         4,298,390 4,263,239 35,151    

9 Suzuki  Japan                                        2,842,133 2,452,573 389,560    

10 PSA  France                                         2,833,781 2,445,889 387,892    

11 Renault  France                                     2,704,675 2,347,913 356,762    

12 BMW  Germany                                        2,006,366 2,006,366      

13 SAIC  China                                         1,992,250 1,685,392 231,374 74,431 1,053 1

4 Daimler AG  Germany (Mercedes)                       1,781,507 1,631,502 150,005    

15 Mazda  Japan                                        1,264,173 1,175,443 88,730

[camelspyyder]

Just bought a spanking new Ibiza 5d with air, nav, alloys, heated mirrors, blah, blah for 9k.

 

We are both clearly bargain hunters, but I think the Dacia may be cheaper to run.

[lol-lol]

Just bought a spanking new Ibiza 5d with air, nav, alloys, heated mirrors, blah, blah for 9k.

 

We are both clearly bargain hunters, but I think the Dacia may be cheaper to run.

 

Had an Ibiza 1.2 HTP 3 cylinder for a while, similar to the Fabia 1.2 HTP we still have in the stable.

 

Thought about the Sandero but wanted a car capable of the near 600 litre capacity so I suppose the Logan is closer to the Ibiza ST which they have at an RRP of £14K though I think you can get a few K off and the 1.2 TSI 86 hp is excellent.

 

Like SEAT styling, had a Leon Cupra also for a while, lost too many fillings being shaken out.  VAG supporting SEAT more than Skoda often which annoyed the hell out of me ie £2K off a Toledo and only £1500 of a Rapid when prodcuction costs are cheaper in ES than they are in CZ, rip off.   

[camelspyyder]

I have had successful times with French cars but as you say they do seem more flimsy. VW group in the main seem very solid to me.

 

I also really don't get the motoring press praising Hyundai so highly.  Have now been in the "highly rated i30" and the "best-in-class i10" and really disliked my perceived cheapness of the interiors of both.  I fully intended buying both too - based on press reports, until I rode in them.

[lol-lol]

I have had successful times with French cars but as you say they do seem more flimsy. VW group in the main seem very solid to me.

 

I also really don't get the motoring press praising Hyundai so highly.  Have now been in the "highly rated i30" and the "best-in-class i10" and really disliked my perceived cheapness of the interiors of both.  I fully intended buying both too - based on press reports, until I rode in them.

 

Not sure about Hyundais but was involved with importing Kia, same company, a while back, interesting experience.  Think Kia/Hyundai got fined in the States for falsies about their MPG claims.

 

We have a Chevrolet Spark in the stable and that is an excellent car, well equipped, safe and I am not surpised they have done well.  Kia/Hyundai were the fastest growning brand in Europe, not sure they are now, Dacia's growth is quite impressive too according to sightings and dealer comments here and even in France.

[Ootohere]

The Action & Settlement with Kia / Hyundai was in Canada & Fuel Cards & Compensation was part of that.

Not sure on any North America Actions.

 

The same could no doubt happen to most manufacturers and Audi already were brought to book by the ASA, and little difference that made.in the UK / Europe.

[ChrisRs]

I have been reading this and had a slight chuckle at times

Clearly there are some posts which make sense to me and others that do not

Some comments made by people without experiencing the brand ...etc..

You get this a lot on one brand car Forums

 

I have a French car ..Citroen DS4 and before that a DS3

Many years ago, Citroen GS Club

There simply is no comparison from the old company to new one today..Just the same as Skoda BTW

Both our cars are built to very high standard, have been totally reliable and more important to me..more innovative than VAG and different to a Euro box, like some are

My Octavia was totally reliable too in the 5 years I had it, so were our Fabias

Cars are built to a very high standard these days, no matter what the brand is..they have to be or the company would drown!

[Wile7]

I don't disagree that cars are built well (to a standard) BUT the level of built in obsolescence has changed.

Cars used to be built for 'life' or a decade or so at least......and new models were seldom.

Nowadays, because of the way many buy cars with finance offers etc. plus the fleet sales, three to four years is a threshold before we trade in for the next one....and new model 'desire' kicks in. Manufacturers know that.

Remember ford (similar manufacturers were available) water pumps that were 'designed' to fail at 60,000 miles? Why? So they could charge for replacements. It's important to remember that car companies make their money on the service items and labour not on the sale of the thing new.

So things have to wear out....the degree to that 'wear' (inbuilt obsolescence) is key and a safely guarded trade secret

[Immelmann]

Heres my opinion for what it's worth.

Personally I think often the service you get from the dealer you use for servicing and repairs can taint your views. For the most part a car that is 3 years or younger should be pretty reliable and as long as it gets you home and having to take it into a dealer occasionally for repairs under warranty makes for a reasonable car. Of course the less repairs the better.

In my opinion a car that is 5 years are above proves it's reliability but also it's easy to lose site of the fact age and mileage are major factors. Often you hear of people having what you think is the most unreliable car in the world having no problems what so ever, i know someone who had a couple of Ladas in the old days and loved them.

I've had a Scenic mk2 1.5dci from 8 months old to 8 years old, it was a great practical car and comfortable and even gave the Roomy a run for its money in practicality. In that time it had four new drives shafts, two under warranty. It passed its first mot without issue which surprised me. Its big fail was the electronics, had the dashboard repaired before Reno admitted a fault and paid most of the cots to people. It showed parking brake error for months, turned out to be battery getting end of life and once replaced and fault cleared it was great. Then on a hot day the electric parking brake locked on in the middle of a major junction which was a nasty experience for my wife and the other drivers that gave her so much abuse was untrue.

Anyway that day traded it in for a polo a year older and gave it to my son and to be honest it has been a far better car than the Reno.

We have a Nissan 4x4 for 13 years and although has had its problems has been the best car we have ever owned. Last year bought an 05 plate of the same model but what a difference, rot and mechanical problems so traded it in and got the Roomy.

Just proves car ownership is subjective and your experience is tainted by expectations and dealership service too. If you are lucky enough to buy new and replace every 3 or 4 years you have a better chance of a better experience in most cases.

I have a neighbour who has Fiat Puntos and loves them where as due to reputation I'd never touch one.

[camelspyyder]

I ran a petrol Punto Mk2 for 120000 miles over 10 years from new.  It blew the head gasket twice but otherwise was fine.  10 years for £7k - cheap

Edited 14 June, 2015 by camelspyyder