Vrs engine death.

[newbie69]

It's the feeling I have everytime a real-world comparison occurs when I think: What I've paid for this car as a whole still doesn't feel fair for me to enjoy such performance...

[Miller73]

The mind boggles when people try to improve on an already impressive 0-60 of 7 seconds when it totally invalidates the warranty of an already suspect engine. Christ mine takes double that and feels fine, but then again I'm an old *******........

[Ootohere]

Fun though,

not that the 0-62 matters that much.

 

Stage 1 is lovely though from 10-80.  30-80 and on,  even better than with the 180 ps minimum that is standard..

Quicker in that range than some of the Fast cars that can be bought for the same money.

Edited 23 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[giandougl]

I have a 2011 fabia Vrs with 45k on the clock with itg induction kit, custom front mount, APR stage 1 and NGK 7 plug and now may engine has failed. It's currently at Skoda waiting for a diagnosis. Cylinder 1 plug has failed.

What do you all thing the cost is going to be. It had its 1st engine replaced at 21k. And now this one has only lasted 24k

You say cylinder plug 1 has failed ?? just buy another plug, don't jump to the worst scenario until, after the diagnosis, eh? 

[Ootohere]

Smiles per miles and probably cost less than 2 years depreciation on a really Fast Car,

and those Really Fast Cars break as well, but cost more than just £4,000 if you blow an engine

They often have high servicing and insurance costs and rather expensive consumables, and fuel consumptions..

 

£8,000-£10,000 will buy a used S3 if anyone wants, and they also give up the ghost.

Fast Golfs, fast anything bought used is a lottery.

Edited 23 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[newbie69]

You must be thinking right now was the customising really worth it?

If you wanted performance maybe a bigger engined motor as opposed to your 1.4 ?

The bill is not determined yet, so wai until the final answer what the problem really is, fingers crossed with you..

 

Oh God, don't know If I should laugh, swear or cry really...

[vxh26]

You say cylinder plug 1 has failed ?? just buy another plug, don't jump to the worst scenario until, after the diagnosis, eh? 

Actually, I think that it has been diagnosed as having "lost compression on cylinder 1".

[Vrs-Fletch]

Actually, I think that it has been diagnosed as having "lost compression on cylinder 1".

You are correct indeed. It has lost compression on cylinder 1.

[Ally_bassman]

Most likely caused by the tip of the cyl 1 sparkplug coming off and mashing into the cylinder / piston.

 

Some strange diagnoses being suggested in this thread.....

[Richf]

Most likely caused by the tip of the cyl 1 sparkplug coming off and mashing into the cylinder / piston.

 

Some strange diagnoses being suggested in this thread.....

That can happen but its rarely the fault of the spark plug if it does.

 

Had a spark plug tip go through my Evo engine , not nice

[Furbytom]

So sorry to hear of this blown engine. Hope it gets sorted without totally breaking the bank!

Worth discussing the problem with APR but I wouldn't be holding my breath for them to come to the rescue sadly.

I remember hearing recently about what happened to the guy who owned the APR development Golf R. APR used it to trial their stage 1 map. The owner was then using it at Crail when the turbo went bang. He subsequently had the map removed and took it back to the VW dealer for a warranty claim. When the ECU was interrogated they discovered traces of the map and refused to pay out. Not sure on this but I gather APR may not have been interested in helping him out either leaving him ££££ out of pocket.

(Not that warranty is an issue here as it has already expired in the OPs car)

[tattyjay]

Might find this interesting as an alternative option. Still expensive but for a bit more you might be able to get upgraded piston rings. If i remember correctly there is company in Somerset who do them. Think they quoted £1,100 for a working engine including labour, most likely slap VAT on top.

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14390&start=20

[newbie69]

Any news with yours Vrs-Fletch?

Edited 24 March, 2015 by newbie69

[Vrs-Fletch]

Any news with yours Vrs-Fletch?

Not yet. Just waiting to her back from the dealership

[Ootohere]

While waiting to hear how your engine is i was reading some recent threads like this one i have linked.

It is odd how often there are threads started here on Twincharger Engine Failures, 

then nothing, no updates on what the results were.

 

There seems now to be Motoring Journalists showing interest in just how many 1.4TSI / TFSI 170, & 180-185

Twinchargers have failed in the 5 years they have been on sale.

It took them long enough.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/335451-hole-in-piston

Edited 24 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[vxh26]

<snip>

It is odd how often there are threads started here on Twincharger Engine Failures

<snip>

 

Perhaps people who have genuine, personal, documented experience of twincharger engine failures should contact BBC Radio4 You & Yours using this LINK?

[Ootohere]

Perhaps they have been, & in numbers.  

Thank you for your posting of links to assist.   Could you post the same here please?  Job well done vxh26

 

thanks.

 

...................

Anyone with Experiences with Skoda, VW, Seat & Audi & the 1.4 TSI / TFSI Twincharger failures might also want to update with Honest John.

http://honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/skoda/fabia-vrs-2010/?section=good

Edited 24 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Jabozuma]

Just happened to stumble into this one...

 

Car was out of warranty on a replacement engine which was a low oil user and owner decided to put a map on it.

I find it a perfectly reasonable course of action.

Questions to be asked:

1. Was the engine fully diagnosed (to the level shown on that diag vid shown here) to establish it is healthy and ready to be mapped? I can bet my family crown jewels that apart from changing plugs, reading ECU fault codes and perhaps a service nothing else was done.

I would delighted to be proven wrong but until... FAIL.

2. Was the engine checked after the map every few hundred miles (pull plugs, check compression, check fuel trims, AFR, Lambda signals and perhaps shove exhaust gases analyzer up the tail pipe?) just to make sure it is all fine before just motoring happily? I do not thin so...

I would delighted to be proven wrong but until... FAIL.

 

What blows my mind is the fact that after the failure nobody bothered to diagnose what is wrong and still did nothing in this direction as far as I can tell from the posts here. What we are seeing here is sadly typical wanton replacement of parts and subsystems in hope that one of those mindless activities will result in the engine being magically repaired - this is simply pathetic...

 

The above is not the criticism of the OP in any way or shape BTW.

 

As to the plug I do not think it was detonation that caused the plug to look as it does. To me it looks like the plug's ground electrode simply burned away. The reason for that in my opinion is build up of unburned oil deposits (plug is heavily oil soiled) leading to the tip massively overheating and melting away. If the OP is lucky that process would have been a gradual one (I think it was as the electrode is not cleanly "broken off" but looks like "bubbled up and melted" for the better description) and there is no damage caused bu a small piece of metal going through the system. The loss of compression, without seeing the head and valves, I would hazard a guess is due to intake valve having a hole burnt in it for the same exact reason the ground electrode of the spark plug is missing - excessive deposits leading to overheating.

The above might have caused detonation but I did not see any evidence of it on the plug.

 

If the OP is lucky all is needed to repair the car is to sort out the valves. Then the underlying cause of the failure has to be found and addressed or will repeat itself all over again.

 

Please keep us updated on developments.

 

As for who is to foot the bill the situation is perfectly clear in my mind - the owner. Car out of warranty, engine mapped, I'd be gob smacked if Skoda even contributed and to suggest that APR is in any way shape of form responsible or can be expected to contribute is pure lunacy LOL¬

[vxh26]

<snip>

2. Was the engine checked after the map every few hundred miles (pull plugs, check compression, check fuel trims, AFR, Lambda signals and perhaps shove exhaust gases analyzer up the tail pipe?) just to make sure it is all fine before just motoring happily?

<snip>

Not exactly tasks that everyone is equipped to complete or is going to want to carry out every few weeks.

 

Perhaps people should be warned of these essential steps before getting their engine mapped - but maybe they already are?

 

Incidentally, someone posted some decent quality photos of plugs removed from a vRS - I think in another thread and was looking for comments, did you see that?

[Ootohere]

See post #51.  

Basic enough Stuff,

and Jabozuma is not a Car technician (mechanic) , but took the time to understand the Engines and the very minimum really

you need to know unless you are going to be paying others to do work and checks.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/335451-hole-in-piston/page-2

[Ootohere]

Vrs-Fletch where are you ?,  

or where are they with the head off and telling you the jackanory.

 

I hope that all has been discussed on where you are on costs as they diagnose things, or as usual the car sits supposedly 

waiting for 'an expert', to examine it.

 

? Did someone remove the ECU and take it to be checked?,    

Bill running up now if they get to do work, even a strip down.

[newbie69]

Just happened to stumble into this one...

 

...

 

As for who is to foot the bill the situation is perfectly clear in my mind - the owner. Car out of warranty, engine mapped, I'd be gob smacked if Skoda even contributed and to suggest that APR is in any way shape of form responsible or can be expected to contribute is pure lunacy LOL¬

 

Agree on almost the entire post but the last statement. The owner may indeed have to foot the bill but it's obviously one (Skoda) or the other's (APR) fault. Either Skoda provided an engine with an inherent weakness that just happened to show itself at this point, OR APR are selling a bad map. Can't be any other way really, unless the owner had deliberately messed with the engine or the map himself, which I very highly doubt.

 

I only recently found out some info about the early APR maps on these engines (around 2011) and they were not... great to say the least. Not from the performance point of view, oh no, but regarding engine safety. The potential hazard became known when people started doing extensive logging of lambda values, EGT etc. and what they were seeing was a bit shocking (labda:1 @ 6400rpm iirc). Then APR published an update but who got it, when etc. The fact that no 1.4 TSIs are available in the US to actually test-drive and live data-log the car, to compare theoretical with actual performance of the engine doesn't help in that direction I would imagine. Of course, it's 2015 already and I would think all tuners must by now be publishing proper and safe maps but then I don't know that for a fact. I was also of the belief that APR have always been offering one of the best maps for this engine, and maybe now they do, but I guess you learn something every day.

[Ootohere]

If they are selling a bad Stage 1 MAP for the 1.4TSI 182ps CAVE,  then it is a different one from that used by Me , Sparkly & other Members here.

 

???

Has any member here with a Stage 1 APR on a Twincharger reported issues or Failures before the OP in this thread?

[newbie69]

I don't think I have seen any here no, but then there's a much more active (in terms of 1.4 TSI tuning) scene outside the UK. That issue started with Sciroccos in Greece.

Edited 25 March, 2015 by newbie69

[Ootohere]

The Dealers that do the APR Re-Map on UK Cars are usually in the UK, and the cars are operating in the UK on the fuel being sold in the UK.

That is why other World Region Experiences is all good and well, 

but might have little to do with the cars in the UK.

 

Twinchargers running with a APR map on say a VW, Seat, Audi in Australia, USA or Mainland Europe can be running  different

fuel (Octane) and different Ambient temps, high and lows.