Clutch Eats Gearbox and Bank Balance!

[Jayelem]

Did you get any warning signs / noise before yours dumped the oil on the road - if you did might be worth pinning this post as a warning to others?

I didn't get any warning at all.  First I knew was a trail of oil on the road.  The garage said there was a noise, but I noticed nothing.  The repair cost included DMF, clutch (Not Sachs!) box, fluids, everything.  The garage was great...pity the dealer I asked couldn't do the same.

[lichfielddriver]

Just got my car back.  As a good will gesture they paid 70% of the total cost, which still meant that I had to pay £1200, which on reflection is a pretty good outcome, so I'm happy albeit £1200 lighter.

The first indication I had was clutch slip and an acrid smell of hot oil otherwise no previous signs of anything wrong.  I asked the service adviser if they had heard of this on any other occasions, but she said it was the first one she had come into the workshops in the two years she had been with the garage.

 

 

Sell it fast

[BJM]

Sell it fast

 

Why?

 

The work has been carried out, out of warranty, but with a majority goodwill payment by Skoda .

Why would he change it now?

[numskull]

Sell it fast

LOL! You're such a wind-up....

[peterposh]

"rings auction house "

[LS8Pilot]

Interesting point here.

 

Sale of Goods act says it should last as long as a reasonable person would expect, up to a max of six years.

 

Redress is with manufacturer not retailer.

 

EU law states you can get any servicing done anywhere without it affecting your rights at all.

 

Contact Skoda, quote sale of goods and EU competition rules in car industry.

 

Expect to have to pay a reasonable contribution for the mileage and use you got from the parts before the failure but given the gearbox should be good for several hundred thousand miles and the clutch for 100,000+ the deduction should be small!

 

Cheers,

 

Good Luck.

[Jayelem]

LS8Pilot.  Thanks for the comments.  You would think that, wouldn't you? And I guess it might be true with any other product, but the motor industry is regulated by Motor Codes, and they told me that out of warranty, their only obligation is goodwill.  They also said that if I wanted to pursue it, I would have to sue the dealer who originally sold me the car, and prove that it wasn't fit for purpose.  To even start this process involves a £200 up-front fee, and as everything I'd been told was discouraging, I didn't feel inclined to risk even more money. 

 

I'm still smarting over what I think was a very shoddy Skoda response (complete denial, no discussion, even with a full technical report to the MD of SUK and to Mlada Boleslav) and though some posters felt I'd brought it on myself, I'd had every service at a main dealer, and I took the oil leak to the dealer, who couldn't accommodate me, or provide a loan car for a week, which at the time (thinking I had maybe a leaky seal) seemed an excessive wait.  I had to have the car, so I took it to someone who could accommodate me.  That turned out to have been an expensive mistake, but who would have predicted that the cause was a failed pressure plate that machined its way all the way through the gearbox casing?  Certainly not me, even as a Chartered Engineer and after 30-odd years in vehicle manufacturing.

 

You can see from my own analysis and the many posts above that this is 110% a known issue, caused by a weak design, and it can't possibly be influenced by driver actions or vehicle usage.  That's what annoys me the most, they know for sure the Sachs design is fragile, and it has cost me £4,000  On a pension, I can tell you that hurts. 

 

I wish there was legal aid or something, because there are many Skoda (and other VW group customers?) who are having to pay for this design failure, now, and in the future. 

 

Next time, it could be you, or anyone else with the same configuration.  To top it all, I also got one of the letters telling me about the fudge on my emissions software, and from what I've read of the likely impact of the re-flash, it's 1 second on 0-60 time and 4-5mpg off fuel consumption. 

 

I've been a VW group customer for years, but no longer.

[FLAPPERJACK7]

The clutch is definitely a manufacturer defect. I have seen about 6 or 7 fail in the last 2 year's . It is clearly not fit for the purpose. Not seen an Luk failure only the Sachs.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Solarstorm]

Are Sachs clutches fitted by Skoda as standard?

 

Anyone have any ideas how much a pre-imptive replacement with a Luk clutch would be to ward off an issue like this happening?

[silver1011]

30 seconds here might be beneficial, the more people that complain the more likely they will be inclined to pick up the story and run with it...

 

https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact

[Donbrig]

Reactivating this topic as looks like the exact same problem has appeared on my Skoda Superb - 12 reg, 47k miles, 6 speed manual, Elegance CR140 - no extended warranty :sweat:

I would like to hear if anyone else has had it happen to them this year and if so what was the response from their dealer and/or Skoda UK?

 

In my case, as with previous posters, this has appeared as a bolt from the blue - went to the car on Sunday, smelt oil and looked under the engine compartment and there is a large pool of clear oil.

So call Skoda Assistance and out comes their technician (really good - worth paying a little extra to get roadside assistance from someone that actually knows the insides of the car).

Within 5 mins get the grim suggestion that the clutch has broken and has managed to grind at least one hole into the gearbox.

So with that, onto the AA recovery truck it goes and onto the local Skoda dealer.

 

The only hint that something was wrong in the last few months is that I asked the dealer in the last service (May 2016) to check the clutch system as I thought there was something up as the car had a tendency to try to jump forward and try to stall when you engaged first gear when the engine was cold - they reported all was fine so left it at that.  Apart from that I can honestly say I never noticed anything wrong with the car - gears changes smooth etc.

 

The car was also in for the emission update in October and the visual inspection and road test they did as part of that turned up nothing - though I doubt you can see this kind of damage easily without removing the gearbox.

 

I've still to hear from the dealer what the cost for the repair is going to be but I get the horrible feeling there will be little change out of £4.5k as they have already advised it looks like a new gearbox and clutch.

So, I am going to push for a goodwill gesture from Skoda UK as this thread highlights that there is a serious manufacturing issue with the clutch system in some of these MKII Superb's - need to confirm with the dealer tomorrow the brand of clutch.

It will be interesting to see what they come back with as I have a full service history with them and owned a Fabia prior to the Superb so there is a history of loyalty at stake.

Edited 6 December, 2016 by Donbrig

[Ryeman]

In the pre-tech days, a snatching clutch (and potential stall) was an indication of contamination, usually oil getting on the friction plate and, unlike a damp one would actually get worse with heat.

It was always a bad sign.

The spanner days are long gone sadly.

[Ryeman]

Don't forget the px option if you're in the market for a new one of his products ........but only from that dealer as he has more ways of burying the costs and negotiating with U.K. HQ..........in theory.

A sale is a wonderful motivating thing generally.

[Jayelem]

Donbrig:  I'm genuinely sorry to hear that.  If you've fully read this thread, you'll know that my qualifications, background and experience leave me 110% sure this is a known and frequent OE Skoda issue, and I'm equally sure they know the cause and solution (see my posts above for full explanation). 

 

I'm glad you weren't forced like me to take non-dealer action, and I'd be hopeful they'll be much more sympathetic in your case.  I strongly considered legal action, but it seemed that Skoda and Motorcodes were closing ranks, and I didn't fancy throwing yet more money away.

 

If you don't mind me offering advice, I'd say the following: 

 

a)  Don't take even the slightest hint that this isn't an OE fault.  The initial fretting between pressure plate and spring initiates surface defects, these propagate by fatigue cracking and the spring reinforcing ring (?Name) fails completely, detaching itself and subsequently machining the gearbox.  All the materials etc., are fine, this is a design issue.

 

b.  This is TOTALLY independent of driver input, there is nothing you can do to initiate (or indeed prevent) this failure. 

 

c) I would hope by now that Sachs have solved this issue for aftermarket parts, but I'd be tempted to fit the alternative clutch (AP, from memory?) as I did.  You'd be a bit sick to be going through the same pain at 80K miles.

 

d)  It didn't occur to me at the time, but maybe I could have considered a repair by stripping the gearbox internals and seals, and MIG/TIG welding the holes.  I don't think there would be any problems of strength, distortion etc., and it would be massively cheaper if the worst came to the worst.  I don't think your £4.5K will be far out, so don't roll over. 

 

For me, I'm still bitter about this failure (I know I got some criticism, but if you read the full facts, I still think I did all I could after my full service history.)  The terrible service I got soured my Skoda experience completely, and I've subsequently sold the car and I'm out of Skoda forever (which Is a shame, it was a very good car, but at least the new owner has got a well-looked after car, with new clutch, box, DMF etc., with no future problems likely)

 

Good luck, keep us updated.

Edited 6 December, 2016 by Jayelem

[Ryeman]

So it's a Sachs component fault, it seems.

Would an expensive Audi have the potential problem, or do they source higher quality I wonder.

[Donbrig]

Jayelem & Ryeman, many thanks for your quick replies - this thread has been immensely useful and helpful in the current situation so thanks to all of the other contributors in the past as well.

 

Now, in my case the garage came back to me today and have told me that the out of pocket cost to get everything repaired will be just over £1200 with Skoda UK picking up the rest (as suspected cost of parts and fitting and VAT is £4500).

I never even had to ask the dealer about going to Skoda UK for a goodwill gesture as the garage had been proactive and asked for it prior to calling me this morning.

 

Now to see what the car is like after the repair - will post back once I get it.

[Jayelem]

Well done, I'm really pleased you have a resolution.  Let's not forget, though, you're still £1,200 poorer because of a known, frequent, jnbuilt fault that you had no control over.  Might be worth asking if they fitted the LUK clutch, or can confirm a chassis cut of number for the Sachs fault.

[Ryeman]

The Sachs clutch (at least of that series) is not of 'merchantable quality' it seems.

Pity there aren't more known examples to consider a class action through U.K. Consumer Law.

If they subsequently modified them then it's an admission of a faulty component surely.

Whether the consequences of the failure are claimable is another question.

[Supersuperb79]

Hi guys I'm new here and was looking for info regarding a problem with my car. It sounds scarily like what you have been describing although early stages. My car is intermittently making a funny ryhthmic whining noise esp under acceleration and the car seems to shudder when changing gear. Again this is intermittent. If I drive slowly and gently it's fine but if I have to put my foot down going up hills it doesn't like it and then seems to get worse... nothing dripping or smelling ( apart from me panicking) and no warning lights.. my car is 2015 plate 2.0 diesel auto 4x4 superb estate and has only done 18800 miles.

I mentioned it when getting it serviced last week but twchnicians couldn't find it... is this clutch or gear box death?? And will I have to pay for it so you think?? Any info greatly appreciated thanks

[Ryeman]

One shouldn't get into their car, listen intently and wonder how long before it breaks down with serious financial consequences.

How much longer before the consumer law departments take all this fear seriously and demand longer basic engine transmission warranties.

Hope it's ok for you.

[Supersuperb79]

Will be ringing the dealer tomorrow! Bristol motors chesterfield! Fingers crossed they can look at it ASAP

[DEL80Y]

my car is 2015 plate 2.0 diesel auto 4x4 superb estate and has 

Completely different system if yours is a DSG "Auto"

It will still be under warranty at that age 

Sounds like it needs the dsg reseting :thumbup:

Edited 8 December, 2016 by DEL80Y

[silver1011]

You might have read my worryingly similar tale of woe here...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/418475-occasional-reluctance-changing-from-2nd-to-3rd/

 

At 06:30am this morning I jumped into the car and opened the door to listen for the noise, it was clearly there. Dipping the clutch made the noise go away, releasing the clutch made the noise come back, except this time with a horrible metallic grinding noise. Case closed.

 

I've no choice but to limp it up the road to the local independent garage.

 

The most worrying thing is the noises are completely inaudible from inside the car. If it wasn't for a slight change to the gear change I would still be completely non the wiser, until the eventual point of the gearbox eating itself. Be warned guys.

[Jayelem]

You might have read my worryingly similar tale of woe here...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/418475-occasional-reluctance-changing-from-2nd-to-3rd/

 

At 06:30am this morning I jumped into the car and opened the door to listen for the noise, it was clearly there. Dipping the clutch made the noise go away, releasing the clutch made the noise come back, except this time with a horrible metallic grinding noise. Case closed.

 

I've no choice but to limp it up the road to the local independent garage.

 

The most worrying thing is the noises are completely inaudible from inside the car. If it wasn't for a slight change to the gear change I would still be completely non the wiser, until the eventual point of the gearbox eating itself. Be warned guys.

Silver1011:  Be aware that once it's with your local independent, you have forfeited any chance of a Skoda contribution, whatever the problem.

[silver1011]

Understood Jayelem, thanks for the advice.

 

I took the car to my local garage this morning, the guy was pretty sure it was the release bearing and OK to drive. He couldn't fit me in until later next week.

 

I'm still not so sure (the noise I heard this morning was horrendous) so drove it up to a garage closer to work who offered to replace the whole clutch and DMF today for £600.

 

It is with them as I type, hopefully they don't find a hole in the bell housing!