4WD or 2WD? (4x4)

[hpoom]

I have been doing some carwow quotes (see discount thread). I have spec'ed both Superb 2.0 TDI CR 190 Laurin + Klement 4X4 5dr DSG and same with only 2 wheel drive.

 

I think I have finally settled on the hatchback, after considering the estate. I don't need the estate, but was worried how good looking the hatch might be after having a Mk II and falling out of love with the looks from the back. I have looked at the pictures online a lot and now think the MkIII Hatch looks a bit like an A7. Anyway I might wait until I can see one in a showroom, does anybody know when that might be?

 

So back to the questions 4x4 or not. I have only had 2WD cars, but because I am going for the more powerful TDI and DSG, I want a quick "hot hatch" like car, as might as I can get that in something as big as the Superb. So should I get 4WD, how much better is it?

 

Also is it permanent 4WD as some reviews have said, or does it only come on when needed?

[Mayoboat]

I am led to believe that it is on demand, comes on when needed.

Though it happens so fast you would not know when its on or off.

[muddyboots]

Don't know for sure but I'd assume it's Haldex based.

So the front wheels are permanently connected to the gearbox output, the rears are connected via the Haldex clutch that engages/disengages the rears as required.

 

The newer generation Haldex clutches are pre-emptive, so as well as sending drive to rear once wheelspin is detected, drive is also sent to the rear automatically under some circumstances without waiting for spin to occur (eg accelerating away from standstill).

 

I have this system on my Yeti. 

Aside from the obvious winter conditions, I love the fact I can launch out of junctions in any road conditions, dry or wet, (eg from sideroad onto a main road) completely drama-free. Just point and go.

[KenONeill]

If you want to know what a current(ish) Haldex 4x4 can do, go to the Yeti Projects sub-forum, find "The Twins (and vRS)", click through to the last page or two, and watch some of the videos of BossFox on track days, although note that he's running about 500bhp.

[scottalej]

I'd definitely go 4wd if you like to press on a bit. The Haldex is much smarter than many people realise. As muddyboots says it always starts off in 4wd so pulling out onto busy roads or roundabouts you can give it everything and it just grips and goes. On slippy corners when you can feel the front tyres starting to slide wide don't lift off. Floor it instead or at least give the throttle a good prod. The Haldex will lock up so you have now split the power between front and rear axles so the front stops pushing wide. An additional benefit is the rear wheels are now having to travel a shorter distance around the curve compared to the fronts so they are now 'over rotating' slightly so will push the rear of the car out, again helping the big bus turn it to the corner. This will not develop into oversteer as the split is 50/50 front to rear, instead it will develop into a four wheel drifting slide in extremis.

My partner has a Rapid 105 PS TD with 215/40-17 tyres and in the wet it is easy to have them scrabbling for grip, so with 190 PS and loads of torque......

The only downsides are around 5 mpg increase in fuel consumption and the Haldex needs 40k mile oil changes. You might save that on tyres compared to 2wd though.

Edited 15 July, 2015 by scottalej

[Superb170]

I find grip becomes compromised very quickly at times with 170bhp and 350nm.  With 190bhp and 400nm of torque on tap (on the Mark III) and having driven some higher powered diesels myself (180/190 ish bhp), its really pushing it so there is a valid argument for 4x4 around the 200bhp mark (on a diesel anyway) IMO.

 

You have to factor in the increased weight of the Haldex system an the higher fuel costs of course.

[hpoom]

Thanks for all the replies. I am even more convinced now that I should get 4WD

[Gizmo]

I initially wanted 4WD, but then found out:

 

Costs £1,500 more

They use 5MPG more 

They cost £100 more each year to tax

 

My MKII was 200BHP and just 2WD and unless you drove it like a loony the traction was perfectly fine, the MKII also ‘only’ had 225 tyres compared to the MKIII that has 235’s... so you have an extra 10mm of tread on the road.

 

So I will probably end up getting a 2WD and use winter tyres (as I have done over the last 5 years)

 

The estate will be in Epsom from Friday 18th September at their launch, the saloon will be sooner

[domhnall]

I initially wanted 4WD, but then found out:

Costs £1,500 more

They use 5MPG more

They cost £100 more each year to tax

My MKII was 200BHP and just 2WD and unless you drove it like a loony the traction was perfectly fine, the MKII also ‘only’ had 225 tyres compared to the MKIII that has 235’s... so you have an extra 10mm of tread on the road.

So I will probably end up getting a 2WD and use winter tyres (as I have done over the last 5 years)

The estate will be in Epsom from Friday 18th September at their launch, the saloon will be sooner

Glad you posted that, I was reading the replies and thinking that I've never found myself driving anything where I need 4wd to pull out of junctions etc.

Test drive both and see if you really need the 4wd for the way you drive would be my suggestion

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk

[Huskoda]

I had a 4x4 Octavia and now a Subaru. Never going back to 2wd again, it's just too nice to have. Makes the car feel far more controlled and sure footed.

Modern Haldex systems are clever enough you won't notice how the power is balanced.

[muddyboots]

So I will probably end up getting a 2WD and use winter tyres (as I have done over the last 5 years)

Even though I've now switched to 4wd, I still use winter tyres. Because although 4wd is great for getting moving, it does nothing to help you steer or stop...

[Danny 57]

Tyres are always the key.

[Gizmo]

Winter tyres will be going on no matter what I buy.

Having owned 3 4WD's (Subsru Legacy Turbo, TT and the Yeti) I cannot justify the extra purchase price and running costs for the driving I do.

[LS108]

Don't forget that Superb has XDS (optional or standard, depends on market). It helps for FWD to find grip.

I would say that 4wd or 2wd mostly depends on winter conditions in your location. XDS and winther tyres won't help if you want to climb steep hill on naked ice.

[philpix]

I have a S2 4x4. I would not go back to 2WD. With winter tyres it's brilliant. Never got stuck in snow (kiss of death quote).

So the S2 replacement was an easy choice. S3 L&K 190 4x4. I guess if you live in warmer climes 2WD will be fine but sweeping bends with power down is a great feeling with AWD.

[Nick_H]

You been doing a bit of thread digging Phil ;-) ?

[Guest]

Cold weather tyres and/or 4wd in the winter is a given, but it is during the summer on summer tyres that my Scout really earns its keep.

I live in a fairly large town that is constantly expanding with new housing. It also has several large farms surrounding it, so there is a fair amount of slurry, muck, builders debris lying on the roads.

It is nearly always colder than the nearby big cities with temperatures in the early morning in high summer just above 0°c as I'm going to work.

Never mind the hail showers we've had several times a day for the last few weeks, it has snowed in July the last two years.

On a recent roadtrip in France, there were several RTC's when it rained on a newly laid motorway.

On each occasion the Scout on summer tyres took it all in its stride. My wife even comments that although she loved our previous car (1.6 Honda Civic SE Executive, it's the one I owned when we first met), the Scout is the one she feels safest in.

Yes the Scout cost more than the 2wd Elegance (in 2010), yes it uses more fuel, yes I have the added expense/inconvenience of a Haldex oil change every 37k.

Then I think back to seeing all those vehicles (including UK registered) coming off that French motorway, the inconvenience it would cause, contacting your insurance/family, the delay or even cancellation of the holiday, let alone anyone getting injured.

It is then that the extra costs and inconvenience seem a small price to pay.

[philpix]

I have Nick. Early stuff is interesting.

[LeeBB]

Don't forget that Superb has XDS (optional or standard, depends on market). It helps for FWD to find grip.

I would say that 4wd or 2wd mostly depends on winter conditions in your location. XDS and winther tyres won't help if you want to climb steep hill on naked ice.

 

What is XDS? Do we have it on UK 2wd models?

[ssc]

The following can be found on Volkswagen.com

 

XDS Electronic Differential Lock

 

The XDS electronic differential lock is an extension of the familiar EDL function. However, XDS responds not to loss of traction but to the unloading of the front wheel on the inside of the corner when cornering fast. XDS applies pressure from the ESC hydraulics to the inside wheel to prevent it from spinning. This improves traction and reduces the tendency to understeer. The level of pressure applied ranges from approx. 5 to 15 bar. The impression when driving is similar to that of a limited-slip differential in toned-down form. The precise, one-sided build-up of brake pressure makes cornering ever sportier, quicker and more accurate.

[Gizmo]

I initially wanted 4WD, but then found out:

 

Costs £1,500 more

They use 5MPG more 

They cost £100 more each year to tax

 

My MKII was 200BHP and just 2WD and unless you drove it like a loony the traction was perfectly fine, the MKII also ‘only’ had 225 tyres compared to the MKIII that has 235’s... so you have an extra 10mm of tread on the road.

 

So I will probably end up getting a 2WD and use winter tyres (as I have done over the last 5 years)

 

The estate will be in Epsom from Friday 18th September at their launch, the saloon will be sooner

 

 

Winter tyres will be going on no matter what I buy.

Having owned 3 4WD's (Subsru Legacy Turbo, TT and the Yeti) I cannot justify the extra purchase price and running costs for the driving I do.

 

Having owned my 2WD 190 for 8K miles now I can honestly say given the choice againI would buy the 4x4 as the 190 can struggle to put it’s power through the front wheels only.

 

Of course it just means I control the power with my right foot rather than relying on 4WD, but I can easily get wheels pin in 3rd gear on wet roads when ‘pushing on’.