The 280PS Thread

[penguin17]

49 minutes ago, eurotraveller said:

So, looking not very far ahead when the car is out of warranty (next March), what to do?

 

 

1) I trade for something else.

 

 

or

 

 

2) I keep longer term (and avoid the savage depreciation & continue to enjoy the Superb’s other strengths like SPACE).

 

 

If the latter, some fresh spice in the form of modification will be called for. I wouldn’t be looking for the above 500+hp, but something that would still be in keeping with my high-mileage travel / good engine life.

 

What sort of performance from the EA888 would fit the bill? – I mean actual performance, not the claims of add-on chip makers. I presume somewhere in the mid-300s hp range? What other (reasonably practical) modifications would people suggest to go with such engine performance? How much added power would also require brake modifications etc?

 

 

To my knowledge, the currently most powerful stock variant of the EA888 puts out a claimed 310ps. I guess even that 10% (if true) would be nice; if only to know you’re getting what others are getting from the same engine – that bit really bugs me now (call it xxxxx envy if you like ).

 

 

There’s a VW tuning specialist not far from me, so I’ll drop in there for a chat in due course.

I recall a thread on SCN wherein a Leon Cupra 280 and 290 produced near enough the same ~300bhp from the factory, on the same dyno.  Even the power delivery looked similar on the plot. 

 

I’m fairly convinced that Škoda are conservative with 280bhp output and that’s likely an absolute worst case number of running the car on 97 RON, in a hot country and at altitude.  With 99 momentum, clean oil and filters etc, I would say the Superb is already able to produce ~300bhp.  Look at YouTube and you’ll see 0-62 sprints of 5.1-5.3 seconds. That’s not exactly a massive difference over (the quoted) 5.8 seconds but in car top trumps and man maths that’s almost a whole one hour slower to 60. 

 

I also don’t think it would be unfair to assume that VAG HQ would downplay the stats of the lesser marques in the group so that the ‘premium’ brands appear to offer greater performance. It would be interesting to see what part numbers actually differ in an engine build for the S3, Golf R, Cupra and 280. 

 

 

Edited 16 July, 2018 by penguin17

[eurotraveller]

Your reasoning on brand politics vs. parts standardisation makes perfect sense.

However, I wasn’t telling my whole story. Last year I trialled one of those add-on chips and had the performance tested on a dyno. Result: engine power of 281.3 BHP (not PS) / 209.8 kW. In other words, sweet FA extra. So, would the stock engine really produce ~300bhp (presume you meant PS, though)? Highly unlikely, surely.

And that’s the thing too: there will have been 1000s of independent tests done to check whether actual output matches the manufacturer claims. For instance, if I had bought an Audi S3, had run it in and then had it tested and it underperformed the claim I’d demand they take the car back. Conversely, if it became known – as it would – that a stock Superb 280 actually produces around 300ps, VW would be in big trouble both internally and with insurers.

[PSM]

Was the dyno reading your were given at the wheels or a calculated fly wheel power?

What a dyno will read is the power at the wheels which will be less than the power the engine is actually producing due to transmission losses etc. That said it does not look like the box was doing much even if it was at the wheels. Also did you have a power output value (dyno reading) before you put the box on to compare? 

[MikeHig]

This month's EVO magazine carries a very positive review of a Sportline saloon they have been running for 6 months.

[ewlmr]

58 minutes ago, MikeHig said:

This month's EVO magazine carries a very positive review of a Sportline saloon they have been running for 6 months.

Here is a screen grab for those interested.

-

 

[eurotraveller]

On 16/07/2018 at 12:44, PSM said:

Was the dyno reading your were given at the wheels or a calculated fly wheel power?

What a dyno will read is the power at the wheels which will be less than the power the engine is actually producing due to transmission losses etc. That said it does not look like the box was doing much even if it was at the wheels. Also did you have a power output value (dyno reading) before you put the box on to compare? 

Power corrected to DIN 70020 : 273.4 BHP / 203.9 kW

Engine power: 281.3 BHP / 209.8 kW

Wheel power: 181.3 BHP / 135.2 kW

Max power at: 5990 rpm / 132.2 mph

Torque: 275.1 lbf.ft

Max. torque at: 3235 rpm / 71.3 mph

Max. attained RPM: 6255 / 136.7 mph

 

No, crucially, I didn’t get a before and after, just the after.*

At the time, I just ‘binned’ the box and forgot about it. As said, now that the 3-year mark approaches, I’ll taker a closer look at all this again.

Before anyone asks why: that evo article pretty much gives the answer – the joy of a “Q car”. It would just be fun to have a bit more “Q”.

 

*PS:

Given the 350ps claim, I just assumed the reading would be comfortably into the 300s anyway, even if I was never naïve enough to expect the claim to be entirely true.

Edited 18 July, 2018 by eurotraveller

[Andysuew]

36 minutes ago, eurotraveller said:

Power corrected to DIN 70020 : 273.4 BHP / 203.9 kW

Engine power: 281.3 BHP / 209.8 kW

Wheel power: 181.3 BHP / 135.2 kW

Max power at: 5990 rpm / 132.2 mph

Torque: 275.1 lbf.ft

Max. torque at: 3235 rpm / 71.3 mph

Max. attained RPM: 6255 / 136.7 mph

 

No, crucially, I didn’t get a before and after, just the after.*

At the time, I just ‘binned’ the box and forgot about it. As said, now that the 3-year mark approaches, I’ll taker a closer look at all this again.

Before anyone asks why: that evo article pretty much gives the answer – the joy of a “Q car”. It would just be fun to have a bit more “Q”.

 

*PS:

Given the 350ps claim, I just assumed the reading would be comfortably into the 300s anyway, even if I was never naïve enough to expect the claim to be entirely true.

 

 

 

What brand of  “add on” chip did you try?

[superbtte]

In my thread I tried 4 different boxes, the jb1 and jb4 were the best  by far for power smoothness and adjustability while keeping good AF ratios 

[kriva]

This may be just me, or my misunderstanding of things, but 45% power loss through the drivetrain seems awfully high?

As long as I can remember, around 20% was realistic for AWD cars, less for FWD or RWD.

[eurotraveller]

I have no engineering knowledge, but yes, that loss to the wheels looked / looks high to me, too.

 

It was the RaceChip Ultimate. And yes, I was aware that they could make remote adjustments. In fact, I phoned them then and there to give them the (more than dissappointing) readings. They said: "How much to do you want?" I replied that I wanted something closer the the claim. They said to switch everything off, wait a few minuties and try again. I did, but unfortunately there was no more time for another dyno run. However, the car felt no different on the road home. So I got bored with the whole thing, took it off and put it away.

[penguin17]

33 minutes ago, eurotraveller said:

I have no engineering knowledge, but yes, that loss to the wheels looked / looks high to me, too.

 

It was the RaceChip Ultimate. And yes, I was aware that they could make remote adjustments. In fact, I phoned them then and there to give them the (more than dissappointing) readings. They said: "How much to do you want?" I replied that I wanted something closer the the claim. They said to switch everything off, wait a few minuties and try again. I did, but unfortunately there was no more time for another dyno run. However, the car felt no different on the road home. So I got bored with the whole thing, took it off and put it away.

Not the first time I've seen some adverse feedback and quality issues with the Race Chip tuning modules.  I've had one of the XLR throttle response modules in the past and it worked flawlessly. 

 

On 16/07/2018 at 18:46, ewlmr said:

Here is a screen grab for those interested.

-

 

Picked Evo up yesterday in Tesco.  Give the article another going over then felt compelled to take the car the long way home 

 

Such a capable all-rounder but I just wish Skoda would have added a bit more weight/accuracy to the front wheels and also set the car up for firm rather than supple. 

[BillyJim]

I had a problem with the RaceChip Throttle Response Controller and that was replaced under warranty.

The RaceChip Ultimate (non-BT version) has been faultless.

I've never put it on a Dyno and have no intention of doing so. From the moment the Ultimate was fitted to the car it went like the proverbial manure shovel (or at least more so than the base 280!).

Whilst I've never done a Dyno I have used VCDS on a few occasions to record acceleration and got the 0-100 km/h down to just over 4 seconds, so it's obviously doing something.

I remember someone saying the BT version needed to be 'activated' via handset after fitting before it did anything. I also note that since they updated the Ultimate they have downrated the HP/PS, though torque remains the same.

 

I've also tightened up the steering response and Haldex. Goes round bends as if it were on rails even with DCC in Normal.

[penguin17]

8 minutes ago, BillyJim said:

 

 

I've also tightened up the steering response and Haldex. Goes round bends as if it were on rails even with DCC in Normal.

Have you got any more info on these mods, please? 

[alf.onso]

1 hour ago, BillyJim said:

proverbial manure shovel

 

Erm ..... what kinda fast fluffy animal is "proverbial manure shovel" if I may ask?

Even non-english speaker's best friend Google Translate got stuck with that one 

 

But about RaceChip Throttle Responce Controller. Did it make downshift any jerkyer than in normal D? 

Edited 18 July, 2018 by alf.onso

[Alan_P]

S*** off a shovel

Edited 18 July, 2018 by Alan_P

[penguin17]

1 minute ago, Alan_P said:

S*** off a shovel

Defo photoshopped.  I mean, which dog in their right mind would use a rake? 

[TGR]

To be clear and to help out our foreign friends, here in the UK there is a phrase - "it goes like sh!t off a shovel"

 

Meaning... it goes very fast! 

 

There are then various variances of that phrase which will only compound a non-native's confusion... 

[alf.onso]

I assume that this is a very old and traditional saying. 

And they dare to say that youth is ruined .....

[old newbie2]

On 16/07/2018 at 10:40, penguin17 said:

I recall a thread on SCN wherein a Leon Cupra 280 and 290 produced near enough the same ~300bhp from the factory, on the same dyno.  Even the power delivery looked similar on the plot. 

 

I’m fairly convinced that Škoda are conservative with 280bhp output and that’s likely an absolute worst case number of running the car on 97 RON, in a hot country and at altitude.  With 99 momentum, clean oil and filters etc, I would say the Superb is already able to produce ~300bhp.  Look at YouTube and you’ll see 0-62 sprints of 5.1-5.3 seconds. That’s not exactly a massive difference over (the quoted) 5.8 seconds but in car top trumps and man maths that’s almost a whole one hour slower to 60. 

 

I also don’t think it would be unfair to assume that VAG HQ would downplay the stats of the lesser marques in the group so that the ‘premium’ brands appear to offer greater performance. It would be interesting to see what part numbers actually differ in an engine build for the S3, Golf R, Cupra and 280. 

 

 

Agreed, my (Off Topic)  Superb 2 makes 200 ps according to the 2012 brochure, but the before & after figures were 214 ps &  252 ps.  We've had 2 Mk 2 vRS Octys also remapped

by AMD, & they both exceeded Skoda's published power outputs before mapping.

If you go back to the days of the Mk5 Golf GTi & the early Mk2 vRS Octy, their power & torque figures were identical, so it's very probable that today' s variances are indeed the result of internal politics. 

[BillyJim]

9 hours ago, penguin17 said:

Have you got any more info on these mods, please? 

Can't remember the exact VCDS adaptations as I did them at the beginning of the year but they're in the 4WD and Steering controllers respectively.

8 hours ago, alf.onso said:

But about RaceChip Throttle Responce Controller. Did it make downshift any jerkyer than in normal D? 

Not at all, but fitting the Ultimate could cause clunky upshifts under harsh acceleration but that was reduced considerably by fitting the Dogbone Mount Insert.

[alf.onso]

7 hours ago, BillyJim said:

Not at all, but fitting the Ultimate could cause clunky upshifts under harsh acceleration but that was reduced considerably by fitting the Dogbone Mount Insert.

 

I had to go and google Dogbone Mount Insert and did that rather cautiously in case it is again something that old Brit's came up with. To my relief it had nothing to to with old Brit's and I can consider myself a bit more wiser again.

 

One thing that got my eye was that Pendulum Mount can cause wheel hopping on fast acceleration. My MK2 Superb had serius problem with wheel hopping and I always thought it's a fault of crappy absorbers but not so sure anymore. @BillyJim where were you 10 years ago with this info?!?!??!

 

 

Edited 19 July, 2018 by alf.onso

[Chas51]

Hi all, just a short hello/intro. I have been following this thread with interest for some time, and it has been very useful in helping me finally take the plunge and place an order, so thanks all to who have contributed.  I placed an order in mid-April for:

• 272PS (arguably this should be posted on a new thread )
• Business Grey (originally Quartz but changed my mind)
• DCC
• Canton
• Heated Front Seats & Screen
• Variable Floor
• Space Saver 

I'm still a bit in the dark re the final gearbox spec per other peoples comments, I have asked both dealer and Skoda CS and have been told it is DSG6 per the outgoing 280, however I'm not sure anyone really knows other than the bloke in the factory who fits them.  We will see, I can't see it affecting my enjoyment, fuel economy was not high on the purchase priority list anyway.

 

In hindsight I would have liked a factory tow bar having seen one since, but it was getting very close to the 40K VED threshold already and I wanted DCC/Canton from the off.  I have a provisional build of week 32, so hoping for a mid-Sept collection.   I nearly bought a used A6 BiTi 3.0 Diseasal and also looked closely at an Octavia VRS 245 Estate, but the Superb one out.  I've actually yet to drive a 280/272, I could only get hold of a 220 at the time, so I'm expecting big things from all the chat so far!  

 

I'm on the lookout a reasonably economical winter wheel set, so if anyone knows of anything suitable or has something suitable to sell, it would be appreciated.

 

Cheers, Chas.

[penguin17]

Hi @Chas51 , my understanding from news articles and posts on here is that the new 272PS (if it is 272) will get a 7spd DSG box.  It's fitted to the latest Golf R; some Golf R owners swear it's smoother/quicker shifts and others are adamant there's no discernible difference.  I think the extra gear equates to lower revs at motorway speeds, as it apparently sits at 2k rather than 2.2-2.4k revs, ultimately reducing fuel costs.  

 

What trim have you gone for?  

 

My previous Superb 3 was business grey and it's a nice colour; it hides dirt quite well but also cleans up really well too.  Canton is a good upgrade over the standard system and the first thing I spec'd on my current Superb.  

 

I had the 220 vs 280 predicament myself and TBH there's not much in it.  The extra horses in the 280 only make themselves known when you're giving it the beans and my test drives were on dry roads so the 4x4 wasn't something I noticed.  Both engines produce the same torque.   In the end I was swapping from 11 years of diesel ownership so it was a case of 'in for a penny..'.  (but to be brutally honest I couldn't stand the thought of getting a 220 then having a 280 pull up alongside me, gloating with it's real exhaust pipes!) 

 

Why did you not go for the A6 BiTDI?  They are really nice.  My friend has a very well spec'd S line and it's a quality bit of kit and every bit as quick as the  S6,  in the real world.  

 

WRT Winter wheels, I ended up fitting all-season tyres as I found it a PITA to store and swap dedicated Winter wheels.  If you've gone for the Sportline or R19 upgrades then you basically have a choice of two all-season tyres.  I went for Vredestein Quatrac 5's and have been very impressed with them so far.  The other option is Maxxis AP2's.  During the 'Beast from the East' I found the Quatrac 5's were just as good as my previous Winter tyres (GY UltraGrip 9's) and only really fell short under hard acceleration and fast corning in really deep and/or really slushy snow but that was only found out when I was 'getting to know them' in a big empty car park. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chas51]

Hi @penguin17, I went for SportLine trim also - thanks for spotting the omission!  Been following some of your other threads too, cheers.   Re DSG, yeah I've been trawling to see if there is anymore info/confirmation.  There are some French dealers advertising 272 with DSG7 so it seems to be coming, I'm guessing no one can confirm one way or another due to lack of final WLTP testing. Its a bit poor from Skoda but I guess it's just down to the inner workings, or lack of, the wider VAG group. I'm working on the basis its a 6 to avoid any disappointment, if its a 7 - bonus! 

 

Re A6, as you said it is a great piece of kit and v fast, however I felt running costs (excl. depreciation) were a bit too steep.  I was looking at a 2014 S-Line at £26K, with very little movement on price from dealer.  It was immaculate at 40K, however it was non-franchise and I wanted an Audi warranty which was another £1Kpa - I only do 5-7K miles pa, so got a bit nervous about high cost of Diesel issues, plus the insurance was ~£800pa by the time I added Mrs Chas on.  Was a difficult decision as it was such a quick car and nice place to be, albeit a bit vague on the steering.    I then went back to look at Octavia VRS, drove that and the Superb, and realized how much I enjoyed driving petrol again (coming from 10 years of Diesel also).  After speccing both up on a broker site I was surprised at the level of discount available, so it seemed very good value against the Audi at that point - I plan to keep it for 5 years (additional 2 year warranty) so depreciation less of a concern (I'm over it - honest!).  I've also never bought new which I am also looking forward to, and could not get an Audi/BMW equivalent anywhere near the price of the Superb.

 

Cheers for the heads up on the all- seasons   I will definitely look into that.  Historically I've not been great at keeping my alloys tip-top, although I have promised myself to give this car a bit more TLC.  I kind of like the idea of another set of cheapish-wheels will take the brunt of the Scottish winters without worrying too much about the state they are in.  

 

Will post some updates once I have any.  Waiting is the hardest part of the process!

 

Edited 19 July, 2018 by Chas51

[TGR]

21 hours ago, penguin17 said:

...

 

WRT Winter wheels, I ended up fitting all-season tyres as I found it a PITA to store and swap dedicated Winter wheels.  If you've gone for the Sportline or R19 upgrades then you basically have a choice of two all-season tyres.  I went for Vredestein Quatrac 5's and have been very impressed with them so far.  The other option is Maxxis AP2's.  During the 'Beast from the East' I found the Quatrac 5's were just as good as my previous Winter tyres (GY UltraGrip 9's) and only really fell short under hard acceleration and fast corning in really deep and/or really slushy snow but that was only found out when I was 'getting to know them' in a big empty car park. 

 

 

I'm almost definitely going for these Vredsteins when I replace the P7s.

One question - how are they for wear rates? Have you put enough miles on them, in summer driving too, to get a feel for that yet? Thanks.