Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[Ootohere]

Pleased you edited that,

since i wondered if the Ex Chairman you mentioned was that much in a muddle that he thought he had to resign.

Some might have to call on Memory Loss and Ill Health to stop from the United States applying to extradite them.

[sharky09]

Lol, my bad mate, i'd just heard it but copied the wrong piece & you noticed, 1 st prize of a can of ad-blu at your local garage ; )

[Llanigraham]

 

Perhaps people will start to understand what they need for themselves and what they should be doing for there fellow planet dweller.   

 

I understand fully, but I also understand that for the things I want to do can not be done with a less than 1litre car.

I also realise that for many journeys I don't need to use the car and can (and do) use diesel powered public transport or walk, even if it takes longer.

Do you do that? From past comments by you, I doubt it!

[JohnMcL7]

Using this thread to generically 'bash' diesels strikes me as rather lame, but its a free country.

 

I think it's being too long coming in a way since there's been this incorrect perception that diesels are 'clean' and petrols aren't, gradually over the last few months there's been more information showing diesels are nowhere near as clean as made out to be and the VED reduction based purely on CO2 was mistake.  That said I disagree with it going the other way with diesels being demonised against petrols as neither are 'clean' or good for the environment in any way.

 

The main reason for choosing petrol this time was simply because I dislike all the additional complexity diesels have had forced onto them and wanted a simple engine, it's not a particularly 'clean' engine but then I'm not convinced it's that much worse than the current engines (I really don't see how they've managed to get cars down so many VED bands) plus more simply I very rarely use it.  Almost all my transport is now handled by pedal bikes which I have the DPF to thank for as I initially started cycling to avoid short trips, it does sting a bit paying a huge amount of VED for a car that's almost never actually producing all that terrible CO2 but little I can do about it.

 

John

[jlwah]

With all the hyperbole out there over this emissions saga I can see it becoming the latest 'PPI' scandal to keep all those greedy lawyers busy for the next 10 years! Guess it makes up for the cut in the legal aid budget.

[67igor1]

All engines...

 

According to Volkswagen, vehicles sold in other countries with the 1.5L 4-cylinder TDI engine known as Type EA189 are also affected. The EA189 TDI is a 2.0L four-cylinder engine which includes the incriminated Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) technology. This software is also said to affect EA188 and the 2015 EA288 generation of the four-cylinder.

 

So... All Skoda and Seat diesel cars:

CAYB (EA189) including GreenLine

CUSB (EA288)

CAYC (EA189)

CRKB (EA288)

[meb90]

Mainly drive the Dacia Logan.  Emissions.  NO 10 mg/km, CO 672 mg/km, CO2 116 g/km.

 

Let compared it to the Mk3 wiesel VRS (make sure you put the emission test pipe up the real exhaust pipe and not the fake on RHS)

 

Mk3 Octy diesel VRS  NO 135 mg/km, CO 260 mg/Km, CO2 119 g/km

 

(VCA data)

 

Thirteen times the NO (which is the constituent of most concern currently)      

 

Hmmmm., 

 

I'm not convinced that you have answered my questions, but never mind.

 

I do note that your car emits 2.5 times CO, and while I agree this isn't the main topic it does show that your car isn't 'holier than thou'. I don't think that petrol or diesel power is particularly fantastic as they are both dirty for different reasons.

 

Thanks for the pop at the 'fake' exhaust on my VRS - its never bothered me.

 

PS. I like driving my car, and you can't get the same performance from a 1 litre petrol.

[lol-lol]

I understand fully, but I also understand that for the things I want to do can not be done with a less than 1litre car.

I also realise that for many journeys I don't need to use the car and can (and do) use diesel powered public transport or walk, even if it takes longer.

Do you do that? From past comments by you, I doubt it!

 

For a 4X4 you do need a bit more power.  I am looking forward to the Dacia Duster with the 1.2 TCE engine, Renault's EDC (DSG) type gearbox.  125 hp and good spread of power from 2-6k revs .

Should have similar performance to the 140 hp diesel CR but not the NO pollution ie the No would be around 20- 40 mg/km I expect.   Some car companies only produce the 4x4 version in diesel but with everything going on that is more likely to change but at least Skoda do with the Yeti.  I would have gone for the 1.4 150 hp TSI.   The old 1.8 TSI 4x4 yeti was 21 mg/km and quick too.  Don't think they did a 4x4 1.2 TSI and it would be a little weak with 105/110 hp and 175 Nm of torque with the extra weight etc.  With the 4x4 Yeti diesels they are fitted with SCR at least now.    Presumably it now gets under the 80 mg/km NO else without the SCR they would not be able to sell the Yeti diesel from the start of the month and meet the 80 mg/km.    Bet there are thousands of dealer registered cars to avoid the new requirements.

 

Do use public transport where it works best ie train in to central London from Reading.  Love the TGV and use it when I can and the dual deck trains in Benelux countries.  Big train fan for journeys under 1000 km where you can go over land or tunnel.  Sadly in international logistics either speed or cost or route dictates.  Air freight for speed, sea container for lowest cost.   More we can get off the road and on to rail the happier I would be.      

[VAGCF]

Seems to be a lot of people getting their nickers in a twist over this…   As noted above the rules were made and VW (and probably many other manufacturers) found a loophole and exploited it – that’s how life works – given a set of rules everybody will try and ‘bend’ them if they can.

 

Some holier than thou people will get ‘angry’ and worked up over it but I’d bet 100% of them were happy in their ignorance and happy with their VW before this was made public…    After all there is a lot more to the ownership and use of a car than it’s emissions, and if those people who are getting worked up were REALLY concerned over the emissions and the environment then they wouldn’t own a car and would rely on Shank’s pony or public transport.

 

Oh – just remembered – the latter are generally diesel powered – whoops!

 

As for compensation etc. as is being asked for by some owners – what for? – what ‘damage’ has been inflicted to the owners to warrant compensation?  At present none and, most likely none in the future as it is very unlikely that VED or other costs will be incurred retrospectively and the likes of MPG is unlikely to be affected by any retro-fit of SCR systems, leaving just the minimla cost of Ad-blue that can easily be recovered through changes in driving style.

 

Sorry but I just don’t understand what all the fuss is about..   other than the issue of increased emissions that, as others have suggested, pale into insignificance when compared to those from other sources.

 

Hopefully cars in the UK etc. are found to be OK or if not, nothing is done by VW to mess with them. Not being anti-environment and peoples lives here just putting it into perspective i.e. recent diesels are much cleaner than they used to be and it should be more of an issue to get those old serious polluters off the road. 

 

Anyway my main point was to be about compensation. Firstly, your point about Adblue assumes that owners are not already driving in a manner to achieve good/maximum MPG! And if they are it will be impossible not easy to recover the additional costs.   

 

Secondly, if the car has to be modified to meet the standards and as a result of this the drivability and power was affected then I would be very unhappy. I'm assuming this is a very real possibility if work is required because if not why was the cheat needed and in normal use the engines not allowed to run in full emissions mode.

 

I would be very unhappy because if you test drive and buy a car and are happy with it's performance and then something is done by VW out of your control and not your fault then you would be justified in feeling miffed, particularly with the lower powered 110PS engines like mine. I knew what I was buying and it suits my needs but I wouldn't be happy if the performance was reduced as it is only adequate in todays commuter traffic. It would be different of course if part of the "fix" was to maintain the power output etc.

 

As said aplenty though, this is all conjecture at the moment and it will be very interesting to see how all this pans out.   

 

It's certainly set the forums alight and those that are already tired of the discussion know what they can do - in a pleasant way - don't visit the thread! It's their choice!   

Edited 23 September, 2015 by VAGCF

[silver1011]

So, after 16 pages of debate, does anyone know the NOx limits for UK registered cars?

 

We know NOx is not tested during the MOT, but I'm assuming that for any of this to be relevant to us here in the UK there must be a NOx limit set by someone for the car to be approved for use on UK roads?

 

If so what is it?

[lol-lol]

So, after 16 pages of debate, does anyone know the NOx limits for UK registered cars?

 

We know NOx is not tested during the MOT, but I'm assuming that for any of this to be relevant to us here in the UK there must be a NOx limit set by someone for the car to be approved for use on UK roads?

 

If so what is it?

 

Think it is 80 mg/km now for new regs (or should be or will be if you wan to go to London, Pairs etc in a few years time).

[skomaz]

Do use public transport where it works best ie train in to central London from Reading.  Love the TGV and use it when I can and the dual deck trains in Benelux countries.  Big train fan for journeys under 1000 km where you can go over land or tunnel.  Sadly in international logistics either speed or cost or route dictates.  Air freight for speed, sea container for lowest cost.   More we can get off the road and on to rail the happier I would be.      

 

Would any of those be diesel powered or diesel electric by any chance and if electric how is the power generated and what pollution does that cause???

 

Sorry - just being devils advocate  ;-)

[gadgetman]

So, after 16 pages of debate, does anyone know the NOx limits for UK registered cars?

We know NOx is not tested during the MOT, but I'm assuming that for any of this to be relevant to us here in the UK there must be a NOx limit set by someone for the car to be approved for use on UK roads?

If so what is it?

See http://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/environment/intro/european-engine-emission-standards/

[lol-lol]

I take it that you drive a petrol? And what are you doing to offset the (also deadly) CO emissions? I also take it you are planting lots of trees daily to offset the CO2 emissions too?

 

Also, I am not sure that it is VW alone that is responsible for the 'huge numbers of deaths'. Might be all the other diesel powered vehicles as well?

 

Sorry yes I do have quite a few trees, I do not concrete or pave over my drive.  CO is very small as it is in milligrams per Km and I would hard call CO deadly (slightly reduces O2 intake but it is almost a thousandth of CO2 figure).  CO2 quite good at 116 I thought.   Always good at changing air filters and keeping engine is good shape as I was a diesel engineer in the merchant navy.

 

VW is just Europe's largest car maker and should be setting the standard not evading it.    

[lol-lol]

Would any of those be diesel powered or diesel electric by any chance and if electric how is the power generated and what pollution does that cause???

 

Sorry - just being devils advocate  ;-)

 

TGV is electric is it not?   Power by EDF nuclear power stations mainly as is Holland and much of the UK.  Soon be Chinese pressurized water reactors if this government has its way.  I would not buy a Chinese tyre never mind want a Chinese power station within a thousand miles of me.  

[EikokuSanzoku]

Interesting that some folk don't think it's owt to get excited about....

 

29,000 air pollution related deaths.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32512152

 

12,000 car related air pollution deaths...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11883416/vw-scandal-emission-target-death-rate.html

 

1713 road related deaths in 2013...... 

[oilburninnut]

Yeah, I totally won't buy another Volkswa...oh, guys, wow, look at this Twitbook post of that guy on Celebrity X-Brother!

 

Sadly, people just don't care. Its been proven time and again. There will be a brief period of outrage then things will return to normal once its been buried under the usual heap of non-stories about celebrities.

 

I also see quite a massive amount of hipocracy in these threads. So many people angry about VW cheating on diesel emission tests who are quite happy to rip out their DPFs and cheat their way through MOTs by sticking in an empty one, with zero regard for the law or the health of anyone else.

I don't even have a brief feeling of outrage, truth is I just don't care lol

[lol-lol]

I don't even have a brief feeling of outrage, truth is I just don't care lol

 

Hope you or anyone you know does not suffer from asthma and other breathing issues, you might care more then.  

[Tim1631]

Sorry yes I do have quite a few trees, I do not concrete or pave over my drive.  CO is very small as it is in milligrams per Km and I would hard call CO deadly (slightly reduces O2 intake but it is almost a thousandth of CO2 figure).  CO2 quite good at 116 I thought.   Always good at changing air filters and keeping engine is good shape as I was a diesel engineer in the merchant navy.

 

VW is just Europe's largest car maker and should be setting the standard not evading it.

You are going miles off topic and getting on your high horse. Who cares about your Dacia petrol. This thread is about VW playing with their diesel figures in America. Stop arguing over nothing and try getting back to the original topic.

[meb90]

Sorry yes I do have quite a few trees, I do not concrete or pave over my drive.  CO is very small as it is in milligrams per Km and I would hard call CO deadly (slightly reduces O2 intake but it is almost a thousandth of CO2 figure).  CO2 quite good at 116 I thought.   Always good at changing air filters and keeping engine is good shape as I was a diesel engineer in the merchant navy.

 

VW is just Europe's largest car maker and should be setting the standard not evading it.    

I think we should agree to disagree, for the sake of the thread.  

[oilburninnut]

Hope you or anyone you know does not suffer from asthma and other breathing issues, you might care more then.

not likely I live in the middle of nowhere, I may care if I lived in some filthy city with a million cars a day going past, on a good day I maybe see 10 cars go past so I think I'm good Edited 23 September, 2015 by oilburninnut

[Tim1631]

not likely I live in the middle of nowhere, I may care if I lived in some filthy city with a million cars a day going past, on a good day I maybe see 10 cats go past so I think I'm good

How many cars go past though?

[oilburninnut]

You got it before I edited it!!!!!

[meb90]

Back with me on topic!

 

I do sort of think well done to VW, in some ways as it was just bending the rules. Rules are there to be got round yes?

 

But I do think they have gone to far with this one. It'll be interesting to see what the fall out is.

 

A colleague of mine used to work at Bentley (so VAG group) and he reckons this is the tip of the iceberg. Apparently some VW petrol cars have had something similar done to them, especially if they have the automatic boxes. We also couldn't see how the other manufacturers aren't at the same game, just haven't been caught yet.

[silver1011]

Interesting that some folk don't think it's owt to get excited about....

 

29,000 air pollution related deaths.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32512152

 

12,000 car related air pollution deaths...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11883416/vw-scandal-emission-target-death-rate.html

 

1713 road related deaths in 2013...... 

 

Interesting statistics, but only relevant when put into context.

 

By how much (if at all) would these numbers have change had VAG not used their defeat device?