Reports to manipulation extending to both co2 and petrol engines.

Now TUV getting involved looks like EU won't be far behind.

German Gov are talking about random on road tests on Diesels, that's a very smart move as it will show haw bad all the other manufacturers are , it wont even prove how they are cheating, it will show the cars on the road are all the same, being cynical I doubt BMW or Merc will fare badly but all companies are doing all they can to sell cars.

 

As with all things the lawyers are fuelling there own cash cow !!

 

We bought an Abarth, build quality was " pants "

 

I bought an Alfa, so far Ok but what a car to drive

 

The SLK is brilliant Engineering

 

The Scout just goes on & on & on, brilliant work Horse, Nought wrong with German engineering as far as quality is Concerned , This  for me is a plus as the next Skoda will be cheaper

Am just upgrading the wife's 2003 Octavia to a 2009 one, went for the old 1.9 diesel as wasn't keen on potential dpf issues, I think these issues are with the diesels that followed the 1.9?

 

Stuart just wrote "This for me is a plus as the next Skoda will be cheaper "

 

Well blow me , I just saw a pig fly over ........... :sun:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34345210

 

Detail on the story - VW cheated Euro Emissions tests too.

Edited 24 September, 201510 yr by camelspyyder

I can't help but think something similar must be happening across the industry. Employees move across all industries and it just isn't conceivable that software engineers, project leads, emissions governance and testing (internal to VW) haven't moved from VW to other manufacturers or bodies since 2009 when this all started. This means that at some point other manufacturers would have known what VW were doing and if they weren't doing the same they would have kicked up a fuss.

 

It also suggests that there was either direct or indirect collusion across the industry.

 

Someone above said that we were about to introduce class action in the UK. That is true in some respects, but it will be called Group Action and at least initially it is limited to anti competitive actions. The only way this would be applicable to the VW issue would be if it was found other manufacturer's were colluding with VW to impact competition across the UK.

 

On to the issue itself. I have a 2013 170CR Superb Ellegance and I love it. I particularly love the huge torque you get.

 

A tweak to remove bring emissions down to implied levels (i.e. levels VW were trying to fool the market they were able to achieve it reasonably normal driving) would probably be possible but would cripple the performance of the car. That would breach sales of good act and force VW to offer full and unconditional refunds to anyone that wanted one. We wouldn't have to justify this based on other things like trust, mpg, green credentials - anyone would be fine.

 

VW could buy people off by offering a payment as an apology and to cover potential limitations in car usage (not being able to drive into controlled emission zones across EU - many like me drive across Europe). The payment should also cover likely depreciation or difficulty selling on issues which could be significant.

I think we should all be able to refuse this, but it would take a group action of some sort to happen at scale.

 

Perhaps VW group manufacturer's should offer a buy back programme where they cover original purchase price. They could then convert cars to petrol and resell as second hand. They could also offer to convert current owner cars to a petrol engine of similar performance (in all respects) to the marketed diesel engine ... or to a full tested new diesel of similar performance.

 

So ... lots of options.

 

Paul.

Edited 24 September, 201510 yr by pgamble

Just spoke to my dealer, not a problem for Skoda cars, but they have been swamped will calls with some people wanting refunds, in some cases for cars six years old.

All aboard the panic wagon 

 

Perhaps after the dust has settled, the World will look at pollution with a bit more urgency. As for the diesel engine, why did VW cheat? Simple really, the new emission standards are so tough, it isn't cost effective to build a diesel engine than can meet the standards, without creating a dog of a car.

 

I think diesels will be phased out. I'd love a Tesla Model S but simply cannot afford it. 0-60 in 3 seconds has to be a hoot. :p  

Apparently German Transport Minister says it is the 1.6 as well as the 2 litre TDI on Deutsche Welle channel.

 

 

http://www.dw.com/en/questionable-vw-cars-in-europe-too-says-germanys-dobrindt/a-18737720

Follow-up tests for other makes

Dobrindt said the exact number of affected vehicles in Europe was unknown, and added that follow-up emissions tests would be extended to other makes.

Winterkorn quit denying personal wrongdoing

"We have been informed that also in Europe vehicles with 1.6- and 2.0-liter diesel motors are involved in the manipulation in question," Dobrindt said, adding that the extent would be clarified in the "next few days."

His remarks coincided with a drop of up to 9 percent in BMW share prices on Thursday, amid reports of similar methods to trick the tests. BMW said the report in "Auto-Bild" was incorrect, "and naturally we keep to every country's laws and meet all local test requirements."

Earlier, the German automotive news magazine Auto-Bild had claimed that BMW's X3 xDrive 20d model exceeded "Euro 6" emissions limits more than 11-fold in road tests by the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT).

"There is no difference in the treatment of exhaust emissions whether they are on [test] rollers or on the road," said the Munich-based luxury-car maker.

Just spoke to my dealer, not a problem for Skoda cars, but they have been swamped will calls with some people wanting refunds, in some cases for cars six years old.

All aboard the panic wagon 

 

Perhaps after the dust (ed..soot) has settled, the World will look at pollution with a bit more urgency. As for the diesel engine, why did VW cheat? Simple really, the new emission standards are so tough, it isn't cost effective to build a diesel engine than can meet the standards, without creating a dog of a car.I think diesels will be phased out. I'd love a Tesla Model S but simply cannot afford it. 0-60 in 3 seconds has to be a hoot. :p  

 

Diesels are fine when fitted with SCRs (when set up to work properly). The high compression ignition cycle can be very efficient just needs to be not over stressed as this is when the nitrogen gets associated with oxygen and created the unhealthy NO.

VW BMW who's next?

 

Angela Merkel has been accused of complicity with VW as well.

Perhaps after the dust has settled, the World will look at pollution with a bit more urgency. As for the diesel engine, why did VW cheat? Simple really, the new emission standards are so tough, it isn't cost effective to build a diesel engine than can meet the standards, without creating a dog of a car.

I think this may be the crux of the issue. VW (and undoubtably the others) won't be doing this for fun, especially given the stakes. It's possible they're caught in an arms race and it might genuinely not be practical to build an affordable diesel engine that meets both customer and regulatory requirements.

To add to the pain Bayern Munich (BMW's town) beat Wolfburg (VW town)  5-1 a couple of nights ago scoring 5 goals in 9 minutes.  

Talk about troubles.  

What to do with the Wolfburg football shirt bought when over there.

 

Oh the shame.

Not sure how trustworthy the BMW report is since it's coming from the German equivalent of "Sun Motors"

 

"Bild" is the trashiest tabloid in Germany.

Edited 24 September, 201510 yr by camelspyyder

Not sure how trustworthy the BMW report is since it's coming from the German equivalent of "Sun Motors"

 

"Bild" is the trashiest tabloid in Germany.

BMW shares down  6%

Just spoke to my dealer, not a problem for Skoda cars, but they have been swamped will calls with some people wanting refunds, in some cases for cars six years old.

All aboard the panic wagon 

 

Perhaps after the dust has settled, the World will look at pollution with a bit more urgency. As for the diesel engine, why did VW cheat? Simple really, the new emission standards are so tough, it isn't cost effective to build a diesel engine than can meet the standards, without creating a dog of a car.

 

I think diesels will be phased out. I'd love a Tesla Model S but simply cannot afford it. 0-60 in 3 seconds has to be a hoot. :p  

 

Is your dealer bull****ting you?

 

Skoda make engines for the entire group!

 

...and the modern 2.0 TDi is the main culprit in the scandal !!

Edited 24 September, 201510 yr by camelspyyder

So emissions are greater than those reported by VAG. That could mean, if proven, that I would end up paying more road tax (currently £30) on my 1.6 CR TDI? It would also mean that those tens of thousands of company car owners would have to pay more tax, that new car costs would fall as would sales and that the used car market would be affected also. 

 

So, no silver lining to this cloud for us owners.

Looks like the dealers are going to have to deal with cranks and chancers for a good while yet.

 

"I bought this A4 1.9tdi in 1999 from the dealer that was here three owners ago it's given me a calculated tank to tank of 55mpg for the last 16 year but you lied to me so I want my 15k back, it's my right, I know the law give me my money or I'm off to get a sad face picture taken for the Daily Mail"

 

Edited 24 September, 201510 yr by Aspman

With all the hyperbole out there over this emissions saga I can see it becoming the latest 'PPI' scandal to keep all those greedy lawyers busy for the next 10 years! Guess it makes up for the cut in the legal aid budget.

I wondered if anyone would pick up on this. Well done to you Sir. I heard on the news this morning that there is going to be a time limit to PPI claims so how many lawyers would be out of pocket or even out of work? I know this is only applicable to the UK but how many of the companies promising to reclaim fortunes for you are actually US owned?

 

Most of the posts on here seem to be " how much can I get?"

 

I can remember when diesel cars were in the minority, expensive, dirty, gutless, difficult to service, the fuel was expensive and generally only available on trunk roads (remember those?) or those country garages who supplied the agricultural users. The pumps were filthy with puddles of spilt fuel around them and often situated around the back of the filling station so that the heavies/agricos didn't mix. 

 

At some time the Government realised that they seemed to be more efficient and subsidised the fuel to encourage the manufacturers to make more diesel cars.

After a while they discovered they were losing out on fuel tax as more and more people moved over to diesel, they then removed the subsidy!  Manufacturers then made their diesel cars deliver more MPG (Turbos etc.) and so the scales tipped again and with the help? of the EU went over to basing VED on CO2 emmisions. Now it seems that NO2 is the target. Does it ever end? 

 

As for the US, does any one remember Ralf Nader?  He seemed to think that any motorised vehicle was unsafe. OK some of what he said did improve safety (air bags and the like) but how about an MGBGT and other UK and Europe cars having to have compressible front bumpers retrofitted. The car was still basically except for a "cow catcher" out front. The lawyers made a killing at that time too.

 

Back to "pollution", I won't get started on two stroke engines. My first new car was a Wartburg Knight, 3 cylinder 2stroke, FWD Estate. Wheel spin in each of it's 3 gears if you floored the throttle but no rearward vision through the smoke and no brakes if you engaged the freewheel (to prevent the engine  seizing going downhill as with the throttle closed the engine got no lubrication!).

 

My conclusion, most of the changes for good have resulted from governments being more concerned with the reducing income from more efficient engines than any altruistic "green" initiatives. 

How long before the subsidies on Zero Emission cars is removed?  Once they've got rid of ALL the IC engined vehicals?

 

Rant over, I'll go and have my nap now so any flamers will have to wait 'til I wake up again. 

 

Fred

So emissions are greater than those reported by VAG. That could mean, if proven, that I would end up paying more road tax (currently £30) on my 1.6 CR TDI? It would also mean that those tens of thousands of company car owners would have to pay more tax, that new car costs would fall as would sales and that the used car market would be affected also. 

 

So, no silver lining to this cloud for us owners.

I know it's a long thread, but the possibility of VED increases was rule out about 5 pages ago; there's simply no mechanism for it. Also, they depend on CO2 emissions, not NOx.

Stuart

Bbc just announced uk government to launch investigation into the problem

Is your dealer bull****ting you?

 

Skoda make engines for the entire group!

 

...and the modern 2.0 TDi is the main culprit in the scandal !!

Ah the joys of trying to help people, only to be faced with your kind of bull.

 

Skoda make the 1.2 1.4 TSi engines, they do not make engines for the entire group. Get your facts straight or shut the **** up.

The 2.0 TDi is not the main culprit, it's the ECU software used in certain models with 1.6 and 2.0 CR Diesel engine.

 

You know what, I'm done here. 

Bbc just announced uk government to launch investigation into the problem

 

Oh great - so more taxpayers money down the drain...

Wondering if the Defeat Device is patented?Who owns the IP?

MoggyTech, 

So was that the Dealer Principal, Service Manager, Master Tech or a sales Executive that you spoke to or

'Your Dealer' that you get something else from ?

 

Is this some information put out to UK Skoda Dealers from Skoda UK / CZ or Volkswagen.?

 

It is a shame the Press Releases are not out yet to tell everyone that Skoda Diesels are not part of the Scandal.

Skoda and Seat confirm they have used the E189 engine but are not aware of any 'defeat devices'

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/92893/vw-emissions-scandal-uk-to-retest-volkswagen-diesels