VW Emissions Scandal Thread V2

[Ryeman]

This isn't the first test to show this, I think it was one of the German tests that showed 195 out of 200 cars failing to meet the limit they were certified and many were far over the limit.  I think there's two reasons why VW are getting hammered and others aren't, the first is that it seems so far VW were the only one actually cheating with a defeat device whereas others are just excessively bending the rules and secondly most people just aren't aware of the high Nox emissions of other vehicles.  I frequently see people complaining that they wouldn't have bought a VW if they'd known the Nox emissions were so high when in reality there's plenty just as bad or worse out there, whether people genuinely mean that or are just angling for compensation though I don't know.

I'd really like to know exactly which 5 vehicles DO meet the standard when on the road.

Don't forget the test standard was devised to get vehicles passed and the only known manufacturer, who couldn't meet even the then lax standard without cheating, was VAG.

The Jeep depicted may also be 35 times over 'on road' .......but didn't cheat to pass the 'tame' test.

[Tony R]

So why fit the deceit software ? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/22/business/international/vw-admits-cheating-in-the-us-but-not-in-europe.html?ribbon-ad-idx=8&rref=business/international

[Ryeman]

So why fit the deceit software ? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/22/business/international/vw-admits-cheating-in-the-us-but-not-in-europe.html?ribbon-ad-idx=8&rref=business/international

CARB standards were/are far more onerous than the European 'enablers' (pro diesel).

[Ryeman]

There is the fast approaching 2017 (promised) (1st) world standard and then the threatening 2020 CARB standard.

I'd like to know how many lobbyists are currently employed in Brussels and Washington to head them of or significantly delay those standards.

[JohnMcL7]

I'd really like to know exactly which 5 vehicles DO meet the standard when on the road.

Don't forget the test standard was devised to get vehicles passed and the only known manufacturer, who couldn't meet even the then lax standard without cheating, was VAG.

The Jeep depicted may also be 35 times over 'on road' .......but didn't cheat to pass the 'tame' test.

 

The articles I've read only point out the worst offenders, not the ones that actually pass.

 

John

[JohnMcL7]

Also, as US car manufacturers are so behind the curve on emissions, it deflects the scrutiny of their own car industry (and helps protect it) if the US government keep the pressure on VW.

 

If the US were so behind on emissions there would be no need for VW to cheat to get within the limit and it was actually a European group that uncovered evidence of the defeat device but were entirely ignored in the EU as were others who had highlighted large discrepancies in nitrous oxide emissions.  Also the US emissions laws on nitrous oxide emissions are much tougher than EU6 and there's increasing evidence that these are more of a concern than CO2 emissions, all cars cars in the US regardless of where they're manufactured have to pass those tests - there's no evidence or suggestion that US manufacturers cheated the test.

 

But sure, US conspiracy on non-US car manufacturer that doesn't make any logical sense or fit the existing data...*yawn*

Edited 23 January, 2016 by JohnMcL7

[Ryeman]

The articles I've read only point out the worst offenders, not the ones that actually pass.

 

John

I think you're confusing "pass(ing)" the tame certification test, with 'on road, real world emissions' which, at THIS stage, in term of 'certification', doesn't apply BUT, (apparently), 5 WOULD pass, if it was a current requirement.......BUT it will be soon.

Hence the panic amongst diesel engineers, particularly in Europe.

The ONLY fail is VW's by cheating to pass the relatively easy, certification test which nobody else failed....(as far as we know at this stage).

[Ryeman]

The "report" was first brought to the notice of the EPA in the U.S.......instigated by U.S. 'Promoters' of 'clean diesel' (also involving Europeans emissions engineers) but 'enlightened' when their on road testing proved the complete opposite ......v red faces all round!

[Ryeman]

Today's Green Car Reports has a story about "widespread knowledge within the diesel-engine group at VW HQ in Wolfsburg Germany of the 'defeat device' and that it was reported, by a whistleblower, to senior management outside the group, back in 2011".

Ohah!

Looks like an excuse for serious jail time and massive fines in Germany and the U.S. at least.

[Ootohere]

I am still waiting to hear at least some mention (other than by me!) on the Emissions Scandal and Stefan Jacoby who was top man at VW USA until 2010 when he huffed off to Head Volvo then went on from them to the very Senior Position in General Motors International.

Close to the VW Board, passed over for the Top Job, related to very Seniors Board Members and must really have been out of the Office lots if he was Promoting VW in the US yet never knew what was going on with Defeat Devices.

Left the VWG and went to the main companies that VW were working with at various points or trying to take over and that were developing Electric Superchargers and new Technology.

(Suzuki that VW bought into were working with GM on EV's, and Suzuki finally left VW buying their self out when the markets were closed during the night before the VW Scandal broke in the United States and the VW value crashed.)

 

http://sg.linkedin.com/in/stefanjacoby

Edited 23 January, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[Tony R]

          yep, they KNEW alright       http://www.iii.co.uk/news-opinion/reuters/news/290306

[Ryeman]

Slightly OT

Reading about the effectiveness of DPFs and discovered the tailpipe emissions of 'particulates' is lower than a 'clean room' and that air induced comes out cleaner (ignoring NOx/CO2).......I remember Saab (remember them?) claiming their cars could reduce city pollution by driving through them.........hmmm

[vrskeith]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/industry/vw-emissions-scandal-so-what%E2%80%99s-vw-group-done-time

 

 

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vw-emissions-scandal-uk-boss-denies-unethical-culture

[Ryeman]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/industry/vw-emissions-scandal-so-what’s-vw-group-done-time

There was a specific promise made that emissions of CO2 would NOT rise (same L/100km) so it's just, apparently, more indication of deviousness?

Or

Aren't we comparing apples to apples?.

 

 

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vw-emissions-scandal-uk-boss-denies-unethical-culture

It's not about the UK management's client status; it's Wolfsburg Germany.

[Ryeman]

From The Car Connection today

Hope it worked.

[langers2k]

Hope it worked.

 

Sort of, you could have just used a link

 

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1102037_volkswagen-employees-managers-knew-about-diesel-cheat-in-2006

[Ryeman]

Sort of, you could have just used a link

 

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1102037_volkswagen-employees-managers-knew-about-diesel-cheat-in-2006

I'm a bit antediluvian .....one day maybe.

[mac11irl]

First post in here, but i think it ironic that all this started because California found yhem cheating in emmissions... while at the same time there is a massive methane leak ongoing at Southern California Gas Company well in Porter Ranch which chucking the equivelent of 4.5 million cars worth of global warming affect into the sky PER DAY.. so bad the faa declared it a no fly zone due to the combustion risk.. not getting much international media attention though? just reading the article in this weeks Time magazine..

[Ryeman]

It was covered on the PBS NewsHour programme.

It's been going on for a scandalously loooong time and people relocating away from the area.

[mac11irl]

But i for one over this side of the atlantic, had heard nothing about it, as it got no air time over here..

[lol-lol]

Another interesting Vid I think

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/new-car-safety-report-underscores-dangers-of-small-cars

[Ryeman]

In Australia it's called the NewsHour.....subscription public broadcasting.

Top quality.

[lol-lol]

But i for one over this side of the atlantic, had heard nothing about it, as it got no air time over here..

 

 

Of course not as our Civil service has been cut to ribbons and whether it is air quality or safety it is only given lip service and business comes first.

[Ryeman]

Of course not as our Civil service has been cut to ribbons and whether it is air quality or safety it is only given lip service and business comes first.

Seeing we are whiling away the time waiting for action.....

I note you lot gave a knighthood to a bloke who represented the tobacco industry's desire to NOT pass plain packaging legislation and, purely coincidentally of course, regularly assists a political party during election campaigns.

The palm that greases perhaps?.

[lol-lol]

Seeing we are whiling away the time waiting for action.....

I note you lot gave a knighthood to a bloke who represented the tobacco industry's desire to NOT pass plain packaging legislation and, purely coincidentally of course, regularly assists a political party during election campaigns.

The palm that greases perhaps?.

 

Can you hear it in the distance

Can you sense it far away

Is it old Rudolph the reindeer

Is it Santa on his sleigh

It's heading up to Easington

It's coming down the Tyne

Oh it's bloddy Maggie Thatcher

And Michael Heseltine

chorus:

So merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher

May God's love be with you

We all sing together in one breath

Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher

We all celebrate today

'Cause it's one day closer to your death

They've come to raid your stockings

And to steal your Christmas pud

But don't be too downhearted

It's all for your own good

The economic infrastructure

Must be swept away

To make way for call centres

And lower rates of pay

(repeat chorus)

And they've brought their fascist boot boys

And they've brought the boys in blue

And the whole Trade Union Congress

Will be at the party too

And they'll all hold hands together

All standing in a line

'Cause they're privatising Santa

This merry Christmas time

(repeat chorus)

(repeat chorus)

Oh my darling, oh my darling, oh my darling Heseltine

You're a toss*r, you're a toss*r

And you're just a Tory Swine

 

Sir Elton John/Lee Hall

 

(we just closed the last deep coal mine a couple of weeks ago, coming to Oz soon)

Edited 26 January, 2016 by lol-lol