VW Emissions Scandal Thread V2

[kentphil1]

There was a rumour that it'll be an MOT fail to not have had the update.

I think that needs clarifying, because at present a vehicle can only fail for something that has been tested within the scope of the DVSA framework for the test, and as at present, there is no test for NOx, then I can't see how they can legally issue a fail, unless they are saying it is a type approval issue.

 

This is simply because an owner could appeal the test to the DVSA under current rules and probably have the fail overturned. Not to mention it would set a retrospective precedent for other emissions problems for other manufacturers to be included that have already been excluded from certain aspects of the testing procedure.

 

If they do it, then it would be the motor trade equivalent of throwing a live grenade into the room with all the nightmare legal issues that would follow - i.e you let the Ford xyz off the test section in 2007 but we as VW have to forcefully submit our vehicles to legal scrutiny now - I can hear it now - discrimination, why just us?, why not the others who transgress?. This is something the UK government wants to go away as quickly and as quietly as possible, and as GoneOffskiroottoot said, neither the VW and definitely not the DVSA systems are up to the job for this.

Edited 23 December, 2015 by kentphil1

[mjh69]

I agree. Wudnt surprise me if there were no repocussions if people dont have update done. However we can say nothing for certain long term

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[Ryeman]

The will be no requirement in Australia to have it done.

I thought that ? in the UK had been resolved also.

[Ryeman]

I agree. Wudnt surprise me if there were no repocussions if people dont have update done. However we can say nothing for certain long term

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Nah!

It's not that far off scrapage as it is.

Smoke will kill it first.

[mjh69]

Hope not cant afford to change my car

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[Ryeman]

Hope not cant afford to change my car

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))) don't smoke then.

[mjh69]

Lol. Looks like havin "update" done then

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[Ryeman]

Lol. Looks like havin "update" done then

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That won't stop smoking.....real chance of EGR problems if done.

I wouldn't do it.

[mjh69]

Im in two minds bout havin it done tbf. One part of me thinks wots the point if not mandatory. Other part thinks if i dont and legislation changes what happens then

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[Ryeman]

Im in two minds bout havin it done tbf. One part of me thinks wots the point if not mandatory. Other part thinks if i dont and legislation changes what happens then

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Govt's can lose votes kicking the manufacturer.........kicking the man-in-the-street is another matter .....best avoided.

Relax and do nothing.

[kentphil1]

mjh69, the timeline on this seems to be implied at about a year at the moment until we get more accurate info from VW, so with that in mind, who says you have to be first in the queue?.

 

Just tread water for 2-3 months and see what effect it has on fleet cars and the like before jumping in as a man in the street risking his own hard earned money. When a clearer picture surfaces, then you have a decision to make, until then, I would just sit, watch and listen.

 

It would not be the first time this government has threatened a law and then done an absolute U turn due to public pressure - that means votes in their language, so don't read to much in at the moment.

Edited 23 December, 2015 by kentphil1

[Ootohere]

The UK and EU Government departments should be able to report how well all their Volkswagen Group Vehicles have been performing since they have obviously had the fix done first,

then all those VW Assist Vehicles, and Caddys, Crafters, Caravelles etc.

Parts Delivery Vehicles, TTPS vans and the likes.

They wouldn't be leaving them until the end of lease would they until they get 'the fix'.

Edited 23 December, 2015 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[cheezemonkhai]

There was a rumour that it'll be an MOT fail to not have had the update.

 

Talking to an MOT tester at a dealership, who said they'd heard discussions to that effect.

They implied it was around not type approved as it didn't meet the emissions specifications, under which is was sold (And were required at the time of sale)

 

It's not solid, for sure, but it's also not baseless.

 

What I do know from personal experience is that VAG can trace the VIN of every car they imported into the UK and the standards to which is should comply if they need to.

Edited 24 December, 2015 by cheezemonkhai

[Ootohere]

No need for the 'implied',  they do not meet the Type Approval and the Emission Figures that were then given to the various Registering Authorities.

VW Cheated, they fitted Cheat Devices, they were caught, finally admitted it, and now are seeking Approval to put this right with a Fix.

 

Cars & Light Goods Vehicles as much as 7/8 years, some at end of life or near end of life.

If there is some Compulsion for people to have vehicles modified then the various Governments will need to

'approve the compensation or payment of expenses to those being inconvenienced',  

Maybe some inquiry into why in the UK the Minister with Resonsibility, Department for Transport, VOSA/DVSA allowed the cheating to go on for so long.

Or they can let the whole messy business die down in the UK/EU and soon the affected vehicles will be off the roads anyway.

 

Volkswagen should be able to trace every part, vehicle, engine produced and imported, exported etc,

because they pay taxes, have warranties etc.

Odd how they replace faulty engines, and then say no need to change engine numbers, they come blank and the technician stamps them,

and other such untruths.

But then thats just how it goes, all the gear, no idea, and its just a few rogue technicians, designers, accountants, board members,

Government Agency Employees or contractors, Elected Members of Governments etc.

 

Can of worms was opened and Rest of World Organisations are not going to let it lie.

[VAGCF]

Talking to an MOT tester at a dealership, who said they'd heard discussions to that effect.

They implied it was around not type approved as it didn't meet the emissions specifications, under which is was sold (And were required at the time of sale)

 

It's not solid, for sure, but it's also not baseless.

 

What I do know from personal experience is that VAG can trace the VIN of every car they imported into the UK and the standards to which is should comply if they need to.

Now that would open up a can of worms!

 

What about all the cars that have been remapped, had sportier exhausts fitted etc. and pass the MOT?

 

But I guess that statement is more to do with the manufacturer?

 

Once a customer has bought a car he can change a number of things that wouldn't have been approved as part of the type approval and still pass the MOT. Certain things like Cat removal are illegal though.

[vxh26]

<SNIP>

Once a customer has bought a car he can change a number of things that wouldn't have been approved as part of the type approval and still pass the MOT. Certain things like Cat removal are illegal though.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Bidders should be aware that the airbags have all been disabled making room for the roll-cage.  To re-instate the airbags would involve removing the roll-cage and seating.  So, in its current state, the car is not type-approved and should not be driven on the road. (The BBC's reasonably priced car as sold today for £17,800 on eBay.

 

I suspect that anything to do with safety would come into the remit of the MOT Testers - NOx is reputed to kill a few people.

[Ootohere]

The MOT Tester tests what is presented and follows the MOT test procedure and the items in the UK Manual.

(To meet a Minimum Standard.)

http://gov.uk/topic/mot/manuals

A IVA Test will test the items in that Manual, and as we know many cars and kit cars are built and IVA tested and pass.

Rally cars etc are running in a very different state of set up than the same model that was type approved and left the Factory, stripped, rebuilt, caged, no airbags, yet strong and safe, harnesses rather than a 3 point seat belt, 

fuel and engine cut outs, fire extinguisher systems etc, all towards the safety of the occupants, and they still meet the required emissions standards.

 

..................................................

Every cloud has a silver lining.

How much discount can you get next month & before the registration change on a new VW,

and how much trade in will you get on your Euro 5 TDI at a VW Dealership?

 

Edited 28 December, 2015 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[jlwah]

It's a shame that the presenter in GoneOffskiroottoot's video isn't on the new Top Gear instead of Chris Harris (or even David Coulthard)!

[thomasbham]

Any recommended garage near Birmingham?

I recently contacted one of the tuning garages and asked then to make an copy of my current software in case if I didn't like a new one.

I was told that if skoda upgrade software they will be unable to reverse it.

Is that right?

[67igor1]

Ecu software... yes... but maps you can change always...

[Tony R]

A warning  re beyond the current  V A G problem :-     http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/opinion/sunday/the-dirty-truth-about-clean-diesel.html?emc=edit_ee_20160103&nl=todaysheadlines-europe&nlid=72533936

[Ryeman]

A warning  re beyond the current  V A G problem :-     http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/opinion/sunday/the-dirty-truth-about-clean-diesel.html?emc=edit_ee_20160103&nl=todaysheadlines-europe&nlid=72533936

Of course the author is a public transport advocate so not exactly evenhanded and in some cases inaccurate; either way the trend is obvious now.

[lol-lol]

Premature deaths in India, per year, due to air pollution reckoned to be 650,000, wow.  Actually relatively proportional to the UK's 30,000 for a population of 67M or so ie about  one in 2,200 people die prematurely due to air pollution mainly from the PM particles and NOX.   Interesting to translate that in to a small city like Worcester ie 45 people a year or so.

 

I think the Paris conference was pretty much a waste of time and it will be individual countries that will take the action to improve city air quality and the norm seems to be banning cars with even numbers in their registration on days with an even date ie 2nd, 4th etc and same for odd numbered regs.  Milan has just done this and several other European cities also have done this in the last few years.

 

With number plate recognition in place at lots of road points already in cities it will not be do difficult to implement and collect any fines and could also be linked to a database to identify cars who have not had the software fix to replace the non approved engine mapping with an improved version.  I can see on the spot fines being applied for those vehicles drivers not complying and a nice little earner for local councils which they will be able to claim the moral high ground over.        

Edited 4 January, 2016 by lol-lol

[Ootohere]

PS EDIT.  

?

How about getting these VW diesels doing Multiple Regenerations off the roads, or in first for 'The Fix'.

Blocked EGR's, Blocked DPF's

eg.

A customer reports issues to VW, and VW fast track dealing with these vehicles first at their expense.

 

The UK MOT will have to change before you start just picking out 'Volkswagen Engine Vehicles' as a special case for ANPR Flagging Up on Emissions, 'Not been in for a fix'.

then get on using the Road Sensors with the likes of flagging up vehicles with the Incorrect Tyre Pressures, none standard size fitment , no servicing done or modified Engine Management from Factory Build etc.

(But then all those things have been discussed over the past years and are the proposals in the long run, 

it is why you have al, the Information on the V5 on Noise, Emissions, weight etc,

The EU have wanted strict UK MOT's and Taxation and the UK have just kept introducing things as slowly as possible or not introducing but doing the odd pilot scheme.  The issue is that MOT testing in the main in the UK is done by 

private businesses on private passenger vehicles, and the business buys and maintains the equipment.

The Government would have to finance all testing stations in the UK.)

 

Diesel at the big 4 Supermarkets filling stations now below £1 a litre so it is unlikely that this month that less Diesel will be getting purchased in the UK, and as much as people are seemingly being put off buying diesel vehicles only time will tell later on in the year.

 

No VW Engine vehicle that someone is driving is polluting more in January 2016 than it was back in September when the scandal first emerged widely.

Probably no more vehicles are off the road because they were scrapped than usually happens, 

and no fixes have been taking place to the General Publics vehicles as far as we have been told.

So everything goes on as it was.

 

VW have managed to stretch things out quite well and the motoring journals are being very easy on them so far.

Edited 4 January, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[Ryeman]

The ever so litigious Americans are set to pounce.

The EA189 fix is due to be announced with buyback a serious option due to the likelihood of a retro SCR install being required.