I guess it will probably be the case that German auto manufacturers won't be writing the EU's EPA emissions legislation from now on.

I can imagine Toyota and Honda will be most pleased and will seek support in establishing the infrastructure to support their alternative fuel cell powered vehicles bringing clean air to the major cities.

 

The technology is un-affordable.  The fuel cells for the London buses (100hp units) cost almost half a million US dollars.

 

We know petrol engined cars produce about a tenth of the NOX than diesels without SCRs and similarly fewer PMs as well.

 

The French produce excellent small petrol engines, some which end up in Mercs, and both BMW and Merc produce some good petrol engines for their own cars including Mini of course.  VW have started to sell petrol cans even in their larger Transporter range also.

 

What clearly has been seen here in the UK in the Conservative government not financially encourage a move back to petrol via excise duties on fuel or road tax which is effectively condemning the prolonging poor air quality in major cities.  But then, when you look at the voting maps, cities tend to vote more against them than for them so why would they do more in that direction which would also raise fuel costs for the countryside drivers and voters?

Edited 28 March, 201610 yr by lol-lol

 

 

What clearly has been seen here in the UK in the Conservative government not financially encourage a move back to petrol via excise duties on fuel or road tax which is effectively condemning the prolonging poor air quality in major cities.  But then, when you look at the voting maps, cities tend to vote more against them than for them so why would they do more in that direction which would also raise fuel costs for the countryside drivers and voters?

 

 

There has been a shift in new car sales with the private buyer. The extra cost of the diesel emission systems which will only get worse and the rise of the new efficient turbo petrols has had an effect. Ford have had the biggest shift with the private buyer and the ecoboost units have been very successful for them, VAG have had a similar shift on smaller models with the TSi units. 

 

But the biggest issue for new car sales is the company car buyer / Salary sacrifice schemes and the biggest issue for these owners is BIK.

BIK (Benefit in Kind) tax still heavily favours diesel and many company car lists are still diesel only.

 

Until the Government changes BIK there wont be a massive shift in new car sales.

 

Lee

Edited 28 March, 201610 yr by logiclee

The technology is un-affordable.  The fuel cells for the London buses (100hp units) cost almost half a million US dollars.

 

We know petrol engined cars produce about a tenth of the NOX than diesels without SCRs and similarly fewer PMs as well.

 

The French produce excellent small petrol engines, some which end up in Mercs, and both BMW and Merc produce some good petrol engines for their own cars including Mini of course.  VW have started to sell petrol cans even in their larger Transporter range also.

 

What clearly has been seen here in the UK in the Conservative government not financially encourage a move back to petrol via excise duties on fuel or road tax which is effectively condemning the prolonging poor air quality in major cities.  But then, when you look at the voting maps, cities tend to vote more against them than for them so why would they do more in that direction which would also raise fuel costs for the countryside drivers and voters?

Toyota are putting their eggs in the fuel cell instead of battery....they are serious about it , Hyundai and Honda also.

It's now about infrastructure.

Our French triple is brilliant.

The biggest threat is probably a very stable low oil price if your priority is clean air.

The biggest fleet buyer in the UK up to now and the PIP changes has been Motability Finance for Motability the Charity.

That is not Company Cars, but it is a Group Buyer.

 

They 'Motability Finance', are now buying outright very many less diesel engine cars to lease for 3 years as those on the scheme have moved away from wanting Diesel Engine cars, and as Manufacturers have so many better specced petrol engine cars on offer, 

and EV's like the Nissan Leaf.

 

Also many Private Buyers are not Buyers, but getting a car on Finance / Lease, 

these are often from the Manufacturers Finance,  eg VW Group are buying cars from the VW Group, they own them, they leasing and own 

and the VWG ends up selling as used vehicles.

The biggest fleet buyer in the UK up to now and the PIP changes has been Motability Finance for Motability the Charity.

That is not Company Cars, but it is a Group Buyer.

 

They 'Motability Finance', are now buying outright very many less diesel engine cars to lease for 3 years as those on the scheme have moved away from wanting Diesel Engine cars, and as Manufacturers have so many better specced petrol engine cars on offer, 

and EV's like the Nissan Leaf.

 

Also many Private Buyers are not Buyers, but getting a car on Finance / Lease, 

these are often from the Manufacturers Finance,  eg VW Group are buying cars from the VW Group, they own them, they leasing and own 

and the VWG ends up selling as used vehicles.

 

 

Motability is a form of private lease so buyers do not pay BIK. 

 

Company and Salary Sacrifice buyers pay BIK and they account for over half of new car registrations.  (54% 2014, 58% 2015)

 

So BIK tax is the major factor for the majority of new car sales in the UK

 

Lee

Edited 28 March, 201610 yr by logiclee

Clue is the BIK.  

Tool of the job, used for work, need transport, the government / HMRC help you out with tax breaks,

and as it is, it helps those driving diesels, or they can drive petrols, EV's, Hydrogen or alternative fuels.

 

If you want a low Emission Company car / Van / Pickup and that suits your needs, then Buy or lease one, 

it is not Rocket Science.

Motability is a form of private lease so buyers do not pay BIK.   Company and Salary Sacrifice buyers pay BIK and they account for over half of new car registrations.  (54% 2014, 58% 2015)

So BIK tax is the major factor for the majority of new car sales in the UK

Lee

 

As I understand it there several manifestations as to BIK.

 

Companies actually providing cars has been in long term decline at the proportional of companies supporting business travel by actually providing a company car relatively small now.

 

The preferred way is for the company to either underwrite a Personal Contract Plan and to provide the employee with a car allowance and sometimes a fuel card too.

 

Car allowance is just taxed within PAYE and fuel used on a company fuel card written on to the P11D issue in June of the following tax year.

 

I have had figures of close to £8K spend in a year on fuel but now it is more like £5K due to fuel being cheaper and a more efficient petrol car.

 

Using a diesel would only save me a few hundred quid a year and a diesel car is usually between £1K and £3K more to buy so made no short or even medium term sense.

 

Diesels are loaded with a 3 group uplift in BIK percentage for company car tax as well as being more expensive (and not so nice to drive ie petrol VRS against diesel VRS or even a 1.8 TSI L&K Octy against a diesel VRS IMO).

 

Residual values arguement are not really convincing even on VW own website.....

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/fleet/residual

 

 

I see no financial logic in buying a diesel in the UK as a business use car unless one sticks with one car for way over 100K miles.  There are some nice diesels out there, straight sixes and V6s but then then they are silly money with their prices being so high and when you can get a 4 cylinder petrol for thousands less and similar on the road performance.  

Plenty people and businesses need Work / Company Vehicles.

Tow Vehicles etc.

 

Plenty that are City Based and just commute and do not Tow, never tow do not need a Prestige AWD vehicle other than as a Status / Trophy Vehicle.

The UK Government are great at helping Companies & Individuals run Trophy Vehicles which are not Fuel or Emissions efficient.

The Horses for Courses does not apply with Company Vehicles and BIK.

As I understand it there several manifestations as to BIK...............................................  

 

 

The 3% diesel charge is due to be abolished.

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-3269374/Company-car-tax-changes-drive-diesels-roads-despite-Volkswagen-Group-emissions-scandal.html

 

And many company car lists are very restrictive and some including my own company do not have any petrol models on the list.

 

Lee

Plenty people and businesses need Work / Company Vehicles.

Tow Vehicles etc.

Plenty that are City Based and just commute and do not Tow, never tow do not need a Prestige AWD vehicle other than as a Status / Trophy Vehicle.

The UK Government are great at helping Companies & Individuals run Trophy Vehicles which are not Fuel or Emissions efficient.

The Horses for Courses does not apply with Company Vehicles and BIK.

 

Companies, like governments, seem to be scared as to interfere for fear of upsetting staff/voters and damaging industry relationships.

 

Certainly there is little incentive not to run a Range Rover doing less than 20 mpg when you are effectively paying 40 p a litre for fuel.   

  

We have to report our "nominated" company car and I think the company get stung for the CO2 percentage X the £22K but put no pressure on staff to go low.

 

Just watching the barking mad film Noah and one can see the similarity between then and now where we just keep ploughing on killing the people and the planet to scared to upset the status quo, unless you are in Scandinavia, Switzerland.

 

I take pride (another deadly sin) running the Dacia and its super clean performance and just occasionally use the Jaag to relive when we (well some of us) were not worried about pollution so much though even the Jaag has NOX of only 34 mg/Km according to log book.

 

Hopefully new 2017 models coming out now will significantly changes things..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhZqZ9v-Yl4

 

 

I see no financial logic in buying a diesel in the UK as a business use car unless one sticks with one car for way over 100K miles.  There are some nice diesels out there, straight sixes and V6s but then then they are silly money with their prices being so high and when you can get a 4 cylinder petrol for thousands less and similar on the road performance.

Beyond 100,000 miles there are also other reasons for not bothering .....such as the fragility of the expensive emission control devices.

The 3% diesel charge is due to be abolished.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-3269374/Company-car-tax-changes-drive-diesels-roads-despite-Volkswagen-Group-emissions-scandal.html

And many company car lists are very restrictive and some including my own company do not have any petrol models on the list.

Lee

 

Thankfully it looks like it is staying until 2020.

http://www.nextgreencar.com/company-car-tax/bik-rates/

 

It is total madness that petrols are not being allowed when they often do more than 50 mpg, produce less than 120 gm/km CO2, far less NOX and PMs, you can get a better model for the same money.

 

It is such backward thinking, about a decade behind and just shows what poor decision makers many UK businesses are.  Thankfully my company is more enlightened despite being mainland Europe HQ'd.   Having being compelled to run diesels for more than a decade, told I could not have a Skoda due to company image, but they would let me have a SEAT?*?, I am enjoying the freedom.

 

Slight pain filling up on average 100-150 Kms earlier but a relatively small price to pay, slight more fuel BIK too but then petrol has often been 1% to 5% cheaper to somewhat offset.

Edited 28 March, 201610 yr by lol-lol

Beyond 100,000 miles there are also other reasons for not bothering .....such as the fragility of the expensive emission control devices.

 

 

To be balance though I am looking at the job to change the left bank of spark plugs on the Jaag and that is looking like a pain in the arse of major proportions having to take of much of the manifolds ! 

To be balance though I am looking at the job to change the left bank of spark plugs on the Jaag and that is looking like a pain in the arse of major proportions having to take of much of the manifolds !

Not a patch on servicing(?) an EGR valve........try a Ford V8 to understand just how difficult changing plugs can be .

Let the Volkswagen Group and Co2 Irregularities of EU Testing results on Euro 6 Engines not be forgotten.

Diesel & Petrol Engine VW, Audi & Seat vehicles having 'Corrections to the Emissions, MPG & Tax Bands' being done just in the past months 

on many vehicles being offered for sale,  where the 'VW Group Manufacturers',  Made accidents.

Well 'Not Found outs; until caught 'Red handed cheating'.

 

So now we get the TSI Engined VW Light Commercials and others becoming available.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.

'Catch us if you can, and then we will spin the media on how we want to be Green'.  Like Kermit, one of the Muppet Show.

 

Maybe VW could use this in their adverts.

Edited 28 March, 201610 yr by GoneOffSKi

Companies, like governments, seem to be scared as to interfere for fear of upsetting staff/voters and damaging industry relationships.

 

 

 

Many larger companies publish their "Carbon Footprint" and are mandated to reduce CO2 emissions. 

 

Ensuring every employee went diesel was a quick win and a reduction in CO2. NOx they are not bothered about.

 

Hence why a lot of company lists are diesel only.

 

It needs a Government shift in BIK and the way CO2 is evaluated for big fleet managers to change.

 

Lee

Goverments and Corporations are involved it Carbon Trading, that is a con just like Carbon Reduction. Closing Coal Fired Power stations and the likes. Make the figures work, stuff the economy and the workers and businesses.

Edited 28 March, 201610 yr by GoneOffSKi

Many larger companies publish their "Carbon Footprint" and are mandated to reduce CO2 emissions. Ensuring every employee went diesel was a quick win and a reduction in CO2. NOx they are not bothered about. Hence why a lot of company lists are diesel only. It needs a Government shift in BIK and the way CO2 is evaluated for big fleet managers to change.

Lee

Indeed it has been law for my company's parent for nearly 3 years and everything is calculated to its CO2 cost but the company does not actively assist in helping employees choose lower CO2 options. The operative word is "was" a quick win and now the petrols also often produce less than 120 gms/km of CO2 they need to correct their policies and especially with the highlighting that the more worrying pollutants are NOX and PMs rather than CO2. As CO2 has come down the fuel consumption has also narrowed with petrol cars often in the range of 10-20% in fuel consumption and at least in the UK the fuel is often cheaper.

One can understand companies wanting to save costs which is why, for the sake of urban pollution, we needed George Osborne to start encouraging the use of petrols for light vehicles via fuel excise duties, road taxes. Company car tax already favours petrols for the same hp Octavia the petrol attract less BIK than the diesels and cost two grand less to buy have same BIK % so have a lower tax hit. It is only the fuel cost mile per mile that appears in the favour of diesel but with an actual fuel running cost difference of about two pence a mile then a rethink is needed.

Personally promote the lowering of VAT on fuel to 5% and then raising excise duty of diesel by about 8 pence a litre to encourage buyers to for the TSI rather than TDIs to encourage behavior which results in lower amount of the serious pollutants NOX and PMs which Ford, PSA, Renault etc have also which is revolutionizing air quality/pollution per vehicle with their 3 cylinder turbo-petrols and VAG need to hurray up with their rollout of their 3 cylinder petrol engines which has been a bit slow and not even in Skoda yet last I heard.

Edited 28 March, 201610 yr by lol-lol

Our diesel-like triple produces around 108gms/km........diesel isn't needed for low emissions of CO2

Latest from the United States of Court Actions, 

but a time must come where the money they have to pay out becomes an issue with the Volkswagen Group.

If they are paying out.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-35918792

I took a test drive in a new 2 series BMW today with a view to trading in my Skoda Superb. When I returned after my test drive the salesman told me that the trade In value of my car was adversely affected by the emissions scandal.

Well, maybe it is and maybe it isn't. Certainly the figure offered was pretty awful. My point is, that he was clearly using the emissions scandal as a bargaining tool.

Thankyou Volkswagen!!!!

Another U.S. Federal lawsuit

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103141_ftc-sues-volkswagen-for-false-clean-diesel-advertising

Today's news on the matter,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/29/us-sues-volkswagen-for-deceiving-customers-over-emissions-scanda/?WT.mc_id=e_DM103728&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_Cit_New_Tue_9Sections&utm_source=email&utm_medium=Edi_Cit_New_Tue_9Sections_2016_03_30&utm_campaign=DM103728

and

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/business/media/ftc-sues-volkswagen-over-diesel-car-ads.html?emc=edit_ee_20160330&nl=todaysheadlines-europe&nlid=72533936&_r=0

http://view.crainemail.com/?qs=6777e138bb245254f766697ee84dfcec95f7616154e11761ebaf2f2d4c0d9ce838541ef34856f124b0c9435c07a475dfdfca189affb06efd5dad87359457fdade34ee8d313ae3544

An in depth U.S. dealer perspective

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160331/RETAIL06/304019986/vw-dealers-have-a-lot-riding-on-the-make-meeting?cciid=email-autonews-asdetroit