Tyre tread depth

[Ootohere]

People have no idea if that used car has Plugged Puncture repairs, or gunk in, tubes in or the likes unless doing plenty of checking,

and many just drive off as the tyre pressures are then never check.

 

But then many accept a Brand New car as some Technician or Fitter did the PDI and never checks the Tyre Pressures, 

or picks up a hire or demonstrator and 'tries it out' to see how it goes, 

maybe on Green Tyres and with the wrong pressures.

 

Why you see so many almost no mile (new) cars that are accident damaged.

[logiclee]

 

Why you see so many almost no mile (new) cars that are accident damaged.

 

Just handed back a BMW after a 3 year PCP. They guy that came to collect it did an inspection and part of that inspection is a paint thickness check. He told me the whole car had been resprayed at the factory as it had double thickness paint on the entire car. Either failed an inspection or was damaged at the factory.

 

Lee

[Ootohere]

Or in Transit, maybe on a Transportation Ferry that was sitting on its side, or something like.

 

It is nice when you get value for money and an extra special paint job, sometimes better than Factory Finish, 

and you must have been happy with the finish while it was in your keeping.

[logiclee]

Or in Transit, maybe on a Transportation Ferry that was sitting on its side, or something like.

 

It is nice when you get value for money and an extra special paint job, sometimes better than Factory Finish, 

and you must have been happy with the finish while it was in your keeping.

 

Actually many BMW owners complain of a poor paint finish and orange peel effect is very common. Ours didn't have any paint defects.

 

Lee

[Ootohere]

I know, i used to refinish plenty and correct the paintwork.

[bealine]

Please

 

a) provide some sort of evidence on which this statement is based. 

I am unaware, and unable to trace the basis of  any such reduction.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/advice/news/archive/is-your-insurance-valid/

b ) quote to me where in ANY motor insurance policy that such an action would invalidate the cover. Or is it yet another example of where facts cannot be proven, this inference is thrown in to deter people, using phrases like "they use any excuse to avoid paying out"

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/advice/news/archive/is-your-insurance-valid/

[BJM]

So what is that supposed to prove?

 

I requested you detail an Insurance policy that contains this, not yet another piece of speculation, this time by an online car sales site, again without any supporting referrences and hedged around with "may"s and "can"s and other weasel words. (and some time out of date as it talks about valid tax disks)

 

Also, you have failed to identify where your assertion that fitting an inner tube to a tyre results in a reduction in the speed rating.

 

All I am asking for is simply for some definitive proof of the unsupported statements you have so confidently made, not further second-hand internet based articles.

 

For example I assume that you have motor insurance. Dig out the policy, read it then tell me where it says the cover WILL be voided if your garage / tyre fitters fit an inner tube to one of your tyres.

Edited 18 February, 2016 by BJM

[KenONeill]

So what is that supposed to prove?

 

I requested you detail an Insurance policy that contains this, not yet another piece of speculation, this time by an online car sales site, again without any supporting referrences and hedged around with "may"s and "can"s and other weasel words. (and some time out of date as it talks about valid tax disks)

 

Also, you have failed to identify where your assertion that fitting an inner tube to a tyre results in a reduction in the speed rating.

 

All I am asking for is simply for some definitive proof of the unsupported statements you have so confidently made, not further second-hand internet based articles.

 

For example I assume that you have motor insurance. Dig out the policy, read it then tell me where it says the cover WILL be voided if your garage / tyre fitters fit an inner tube to one of your tyres.

Mine doesn't require that I maintain the speed rating, just that I maintain the load index.

[Toxicvrs]

The past month I've bought a good series of part worn tyres, good friend of mine sells them, at £30 fitted for 2 6mm Michelins with no tread defects etc there is no issue.

[Breezy_Pete]

The past month I've bought a good series of part worn tyres, good friend of mine sells  gives them away, at £30 fitted for 2 6mm Michelins with no tread defects etc there is no issue.

Round my way, it would cost £30 to have two tyres that I supplied swapped onto the car!

Edited 18 February, 2016 by Wino

[Toxicvrs]

Round my way, it would cost £30 to have two tyres that I supplied swapped onto the car!

It is about that if I go to the local tyre shop

[logiclee]

Round my way, it would cost £30 to have two tyres that I supplied swapped onto the car!

 

My local indy charges £30 for 4 swaps including valves and balance.

 

Lee

[bealine]

So what is that supposed to prove?

 

I requested you detail an Insurance policy that contains this, not yet another piece of speculation, this time by an online car sales site, again without any supporting referrences and hedged around with "may"s and "can"s and other weasel words. (and some time out of date as it talks about valid tax disks)

 

Also, you have failed to identify where your assertion that fitting an inner tube to a tyre results in a reduction in the speed rating.

 

All I am asking for is simply for some definitive proof of the unsupported statements you have so confidently made, not further second-hand internet based articles.

 

For example I assume that you have motor insurance. Dig out the policy, read it then tell me where it says the cover WILL be voided if your garage / tyre fitters fit an inner tube to one of your tyres.

This is the section:

"You must tell AAIS before you need the revised cover to start if: You change your car or wish to add an additional car; or any modification or engine conversion (from the manufacturer’s original specifications) is going to be made to any Insured Car or You wish to make changes to the Permitted Driver(s)."

Changing the tyre fitment from the original manufacturer's specification is a modification unless you are retaining the original speed rating, load index and European certification (and "E" imprinted on the tyre wall, as well as violating EU Type Approval legislation and the British Law on "Construction and Use".

Whilst insurance companies will not usually contest a minor shunt claim, the assessor will go over the vehicle with a fine toothcomb following a major accident and it is becoming increasingly likely that the insurers will pay the damage to the third party, but reject the claim for your own vehicle if there is adequate reason to do so.   Assessors are paid on their ability to reduce the overall claim amounts!

Contrary to urban myth, most insurance companies are making heavy losses out of their motor divisions and the heat is on to find ways of limiting the payouts - thanks largely to the "ambulance chasers" and the "where there's blame, there's a claim" dodgy solicitors. 

 

Edited 18 February, 2016 by bealine

[bealine]

https://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/news/the-relationship-between-your-tyres-and-car-insurance-what-you-did-not-know

[bealine]

UK Law regarding Construction and Use states that "Speed Rating and Load Index must be the "equivalent or higher" than the manufacturer's original fitment.   That is pretty definitive that you cannot legally change "V" rated tyres for "H".

I'm pretty sure that in a major incident, tyres are one of the main factors the police would be focussing attention on.   South Wales Police certainly did a few years ago when a car overturned on a dual carriageway thanks to a "cheap" tyre dealer having popped an inner tube into a tubeless tyre to cure a puncture - as I recall, the tyre dealer narrowly escaped jail time.

If a tyre is punctured and the hole not plugged properly (ie) the fitter simply puts a tube in, then water gets into the hole every time it rains.   Most tyres nowadays are steel belted and, like anything made of steel, the cords will rust and that happens pretty quickly in Britain's damp climate.    When steel rusts, it expands and stresses the rubber compounds.   The friction generated by berling along the road, and the extra friction of the tube rubbing the inside shoulder of the tyre, generates heat which causes the rubber compounds to tear themselves apart as has happened in the picture:

http://previews.123rf.com/images/toa55/toa551311/toa55131100019/24065913-burst-tire-truck-Stock-Photo.jpg

Edited 18 February, 2016 by bealine

[BJM]

Having worked in the Insurance industry - company, not brokers - for 36 years, I am well aware of the lack of profitability of Motor insurance (in fact at one time the Co. I worked for seriously attempted to cease to write Motor Insurance completely), and of their attitude to "modifications" Again, quoting random internet sites (Tyre Shopper is hardly an authorititive, independent source) is not providing proof of your assertions, but merely seeking to justify the "tales to frighten children" about Insurance cos.

Randomly quoting "UK Law regarding Construction and Use" - by which i assume you correctly mean The Road Vehicle ( Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 - without detailing the relevant Regulation is similarly largely irrelevant. Please advise which Regulation(s) you are referring to.

However you have still not answered my original question, namely

WHERE IS IT STATED IN LAW THAT THE FITTING OF AN INNER TUBE REDUCES THE SPEED RATING OR LOAD INDEX OF A TUBELESS TYRE?

Not some vague reference to some incorrectly described regulation, or a link to another web site / photograph providing yet another unsupported opinion, but the ACTUAL regulation(s), be they UK, or EU based.

That's all I request.

Very simple.

Provide proof of your statement.

Edited 19 February, 2016 by BJM

[Dr Zoidberg]

UK Law regarding Construction and Use states that "Speed Rating and Load Index must be the "equivalent or higher" than the manufacturer's original fitment.   That is pretty definitive that you cannot legally change "V" rated tyres for "H".

 

Where does it say that, as I can't see that in the legislation?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/contents/made

 

Winter tyres are almost always lower speed rated than summer tyres, so are they all being used illegally....

[KenONeill]

UK Law regarding Construction and Use states that "Speed Rating and Load Index must be the "equivalent or higher" than the manufacturer's original fitment.   That is pretty definitive that you cannot legally change "V" rated tyres for "H".

 

And if there is a directly equivalent model (same engine, equipment, well everything except some styling tweaks) that had lower speed rated tyres than mine?

[logiclee]

Where does it say that, as I can't see that in the legislation?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/contents/made

 

Winter tyres are almost always lower speed rated than summer tyres, so are they all being used illegally....

 

 

EU legislation states that if you fit winter tyres with a lower speed rating than the fitted summer tyres then there shall be a sticker in view of the driver indicating that Winter tyres are fitted and giving the lower rating. Alternatively this can be done electronically and is the reason why many cars now have a selectable winter tyre warning.

 

Never know anyone being prosecuted in the UK for breaking this law though but it is enforceable in the UK

 

Lee

[bealine]

Fitting Tubes in Tubeless tyres is not specifically stated in law, neither is the reduction in Speed Rating.   However, under "Construction and Use Regulations", the paragraph could be invoked.   I would suggest using a vehicle on a motorway with a tube fitted to a tubeless tyre would violate paragraph (a):

 27.—(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), a wheeled motor vehicle or trailer a wheel of which is fitted with a pneumatic tyre shall not be used on a road, if—

 

(a)the tyre is unsuitable having regard to the use to which the motor vehicle or trailer is being put or to the types of tyres fitted to its other wheels

(2) Paragraph (1) does not prohibit the use on a road of a motor vehicle or trailer by reason only of the fact that a wheel of the vehicle or trailer is fitted with a tyre which is deflated or not fully inflated and which has any of the defects described in sub-paragraph ©, (d) or (e) of paragraph (1), if the tyre and the wheel to which it is fitted are so constructed as to make the tyre in that condition fit for the use to which the motor vehicle or trailer is being put and the outer sides of the wall of the tyre are so marked as to enable the tyre to be identified as having been constructed to comply with the requirements of this paragraph.

(3) Paragraph (1)(a) does not prohibit the use on a road of a passenger vehicle (not being a bus) by reason only of the fact that a wheel of the vehicle is fitted with a temporary use spare tyre, unless the vehicle is driven at a speed exceeding 50 mph.

(4) (a) Nothing in paragraph (1)(a) to (g) applies to—

(i)an agricultural motor vehicle that is not driven at more than 20 mph;

(ii)an agricultural trailer;

(iii)an agricultural trailed appliance; or

(iv)a broken down vehicle or a vehicle proceeding to a place where it is to be broken up, being drawn, in either case, by a motor vehicle at a speed not exceeding 20 mph.

( Nothing in paragraph (1)(f) and (g) applies to—

(i)a three-wheeled motor cycle the unladen weight of which does not exceed 102 kg and which has a maximum speed of 12 mph; or

(ii)a pedestrian-controlled works truck.

©Nothing in paragraph (1)(g) applies to a motorcycle with an engine capacity which does not exceed 50 cc.

The area concerning reducing Speed Index and Load Index by one mark is the Tyre Manufacturers' recommendation (which, by the way, is universal among all main tyre manufacturers). 

Strictly illegal or not, the fact remains that fitting an inner tube to a tyre designed to be tubeless is a dangerous practise.
 

 

Edited 22 February, 2016 by bealine

[Scottk]

Grasping at straws. Under certain circumstances, tubes must be used with tubeless tyres (wire spoke wheels) but the tubes must be suitable for that tyre size and you are supposed to rub off "tubeless" on the tyre surface. Not sure if it is possible to get low profile tubes but I would doubt it.

[BJM]

Fitting Tubes in Tubeless tyres is not specifically stated in law, neither is the reduction in Speed Rating. 

 

In other words, you made it up,

 

Opinions paraded as Facts are not Facts, no matter how much one tries to insist that they are.

[mdon]

To get 149mph from the Rapid Sport you will need to be pushing it off a cliff,

and the tyres will likely pop anyway when the car reaches the ground.

There's no chance of his rapid getting 130mph either so even with the reduced rating he'll be alright.

[Huskoda]

This nonsense with the 'tyres must have an equal or better speed rating to the original fitment' is just rubbish perpetuated by lazy VAG dealers, who simply can't be arsed looking up the actual requirements and has no basis in law. Both our cars, non-VAG, clearly state the minimum speed ratings on the tyre pressure sticker along with the minimum load rating. My Subaru even shows a separate lower speed rating for winter tyres.

[Updown789]

I buy part worns :hide: