ezero1 device (CGON)

[tubbyleigh]

Your most probably right. My chemistry isn't great and the smoke meter doesn't actually say the units of measurement, just the number. 

Unplugging it and plugging it back in would be a bit of pain as it took me an hour to set it up (you have to program the unit to the car) and I thought the results were fairly conclusive! 

Also, by this point I had the customer sitting on my shoulder and a load of other work to get on with. 

I think this cgon thing will never be a great business move for garages as the returns aren't great for the time it takes!

i was interested in this thread because I wanted to know if cgon was a load of horse s##t before mentioning it to customers but realised no one here had tried it, so I thought I'd share what little experience I have. 

Also, where do you buy snake oil and what do you do with it? :-)

[Breezy_Pete]

So isn't there a fuse in the positive connection from the battery, close to the battery post? Couldn't you just remove that? Surely it wouldn't lose its 'program'? What do you use to program it with? What type of interface?

Loads of snake oil available from any motor factor or online shops. Mostly you stick it in the fuel tank. Some varieties got plumbed into the servo vac hose, remember ecotek valves? Most are specifically 'dis-recommended' by car manufacturers, many would void warranties, as might this one, I imagine.

[chimaera]

1 hour ago, tubbyleigh said:

I did do before and after tests as per cgon's fitting instructions. 

The merc had 120k miles on it btw. We Did an MOT on it 2 days ago and emissions read 1.5 ppm. Had it in today and after getting it really hot, emissions were 1.446ppm. After fitting and letting it run for a short time the emissions result was 0.978ppm. Not as good as cgon claim but I really should have given it a hard, long road test first I think. Also they claim there should be a further 10% reduction after using the car for a while. 

Unfortionatly this customer only does about 2k miles a year (don't know why he bothered really) so I'm not likely to get back to you all with any fuel savings. 

 

So no actual numbers for oil and coolant temperature before and after. No knowing whether the car was at the same temperatures on the two days.

 

Those smoke numbers are pretty terrible too - I'd trying to figure out why rather than fitting rubbish like the eZero device.

 

Given the low mileage the car gets and the likelihood that you were pushing it harder than usual the improvement in smoke opacity is more likely due to crud being blown out of the engine and exhaust than any contribution from the snake oil.

 

12 minutes ago, tubbyleigh said:

i was interested in this thread because I wanted to know if cgon was a load of horse s##t before mentioning it to customers but realised no one here had tried it, so I thought I'd share what little experience I have.

 

You should have read the thread first then. It is absolute horse manure. There is no way thermodynamically that the device as specified by the manufacturer can do what they claim it does. If they think it can, they should be publishing their test results in Nature as it would upend the Laws of Thermodynamics.

 

 

[tubbyleigh]

The battery on the mercy is in the boot so I had to wire it to the maintenance battery or whatever you want to call it, which is down under some trim panels by the bulk head. You can use any computer or mobile phone with wifi to communicate with the unit and I have no idea if it would lose its settings or not. Really wasn't in the mood to waste more time on it. 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Sounds like a pain to install on that car then, so there was or wasn't a fuse near the connection point?. How does the gas output of the thing plumb into the car by the way, do you have to drill a hole somewhere, or find a blanked off port somewhere? What sort of hose/diameter?

Thanks for your time by the way.

[tubbyleigh]

Alright guys. I didn't really want to get a load of s##t of you all! I don't know anything of thermal dynamics or chemistry! 

Just thought I'd post what I'd found since no one on here has actually tried it. 

[tubbyleigh]

Hey wino. Yes, a pain. Yes, a fuse by the battery and a 19mm hole has to be drilled into the air intake pipe after the MAF sensor but before the turbo. Everything needs to be kept away from heat as much as poss. The supply pipe internal diameter is maybe 12mm. Also you need to wire a trigger wire to the signal wire of the MAF sensor so it knows how much gas to produce. 

[Breezy_Pete]

Thanks again, have a good weekend.

[mac11irl]

@tubbyleigh

Not giving you a load of s@#$, you've ended up, by fitting one of these, as the only direct experience information source which by default means you are meant to know absolutely everything about what you did and why. Thats how how the interweb works.. you're meant to have a full thesis prepared before posting

 

So, going back to basics, ignore the chemistry.. when installing it as per the instructions, does the snake oil, i mean electrolyte fluid,  appear to have any ingredients/concentrations listed? Presumably it has a MSDS with it as per safety regulations. And during the setup over wifi/BT does it give you figures on flow rates from the unit to the intake?

[tubbyleigh]

Thanks Mac, makes me feel better. I'm not tech savvy and this is the first time I've posted on any forum ever! Didn't realise how it worked. Lol. 

I didn't honestly look at the pack of fluid, just poured it in. I'll have a look at it on Monday. 

When programming it you need to set the min and max flow rates but, tbh, it looked like nonsense as the values you enter are just the same as the engine size. 

The unit has a built in wifi thingy so you select the cgon wifi on your phone then log in through safari. Enter vehicle details (I don't know why, I can't see it makes any difference) then drive car HARD in 1st and 2nd gear so the full MAF range can be learned. 

The gas flow rate is displayed on your phone but they are just numbers not units of measurement. 

I have many questions and things I don't understand about this product (the main one is if the hydrogen creates a fasted, cooler more complete burn giving you increased fuel economy, why do you not also get more power? As told me by cgon.) but based on this one emission result I have to conclude that this tech is real. I look forward to fitting another one to see how that one does!

it is unfortunate that any fuel claims will take months to verify via my customers!

maybe I'll repost with the contents of the electrolyte on Monday. 

[mac11irl]

Well the reason for no extra power is the alternator sucking up the extra energy in order to run the unit in the first place.

Contents of the fluid would go towards helping our local chemists do a bit better maths maybe.

Dont worry about not understanding the ways of the underbelly of internet forums, you'll learn

[tubbyleigh]

Hi guys. So the ingredients just state less than 1% potassium hydroxide. That’s it? Also, reading the info, the system runs on just 2 amps of current and it also states that this will not affect the manufacturer warranty. Hope that helps the scientists out there!

[Ootohere]

^^^ Interesting on the Manufacturers Warranty'.  That will be dependent on Manufacturers like the VW Group accepting the Product as a 'Factory Approved Hardware  fitment'. 

No doubt the seller  advertiser of the product have that assurance from the many Vehicle Manufacturers then if they are adverting that it will not affect 'Manufacturers Warranties'.

 

PS

VW Group assured everyone including governments that the Euro 5 TDI Fix to remove the Defeat Device and apply new Engine Management would have 'No Adverse Affect', 

but then VW Group are self confessed liars and fraudsters.

Edited 13 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[Breezy_Pete]

Cheers again tubbyleigh, very helpful. We're learning all the time thanks to your input.

 

A bit of something ionic (the potassium hydroxide) is all that's needed to make the water suitably conductive to allow electrolysis to take place. No magic ingredient there (nor is one needed).

The good bit about it only taking 2A is that at least it won't be doing much harm (engine load) even if it does nothing else.

 

I'm getting the general impression that the way this works is that sandwiching the before/after emissions tests around the 'hard driving' of the set-up process is the real mechanism by which the emissions reading improves, if/when it does.  It really would be interesting to go back to the device being switched off and do a third emissions test straight after the second one. I'd put a little money on the emissions not changing back to 'worse' again.

 

It would be interesting to check whether the device tapping into the MAF signal actually changes the signal that the engine ECU sees though; that would be naughty. Very easy to design it so it doesn't; but if you really wanted to tweak the emissions a little...

 

 

[burntcrisps2]

Anyone following this thread might be interested in this one and voxmagna related ones...

 

 

[mac11irl]

I was really hoping there was going to be a reference to you or he having bought an Ezero1 in there somewhere.. nit just the difference cleaning the TV can make :/

[burntcrisps2]

Had hoped to get a cgon ezero1 fitted before Xmas to our Ford Focus, but live transpired to not let that happen.

Hoping the local installer can do next week.

The Yeti will not get done till cgon have done a case study on a fixed ea189 vag engine.

Will post as much info as poss when they get done.

[Guest Tpacs]

Hi guys...got one fitted to one of my vehicles...not a skoda perhaps but a diesel never the less...must say im really impressed....i could feel and immediate change to response and performance which i thought was a good start...just kept driving it as i normally do and tend to get more or less the same from a tank etc...since fitting it ive had a 18% improvement in economy with response continuing to be superb......fitting it to a V8 next

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

 

Nice if you tell more, like what diesel, how old, how many miles, how long on for.

cheers.

[Guest Tpacs]

The Cgon unit has been on for a month or so...i didnt want to say much about it until i had personally tried it. being in the trade i already use a Hydroflow machine to produce HHO to decarbonise engine internals and recover blocked dpfs so i know how effective Hydrogen is in this department. Using it as an additive was another thing and whilst i understood the theory i wanted to try it myself....its amazing,.,.making your own Hydrogen on the move from water.....the response for me is the bit i like the best...much much better...the economy aspect is a great addition and shows me that this will be a wonderful way of dealing with recurring dpf blockages

[Aspman]

https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/cgon-ltd-a17-386763.html

 

Quote

 

Two complainants, one of whom was an engineer with a background in the automotive industry, challenged whether the following claims were misleading and could be substantiated:

1. "Increases fuel efficiency by up to 25%"; and

2. "Reduces engine emissions by up to 80%".

 

 

 

 

Complaint upheld. Evidence supplied by the manufacturer was not sufficient.

It's not a decision over whether the product works or not only that the evidence supplied was gash therefore the claims in the adverts were not proven and the advert must be withdrawn.

 

The evidence supplied as described by the ASA was indeed, scientifically speaking, pish. If the company has confidence in it's product it needs to pay an independent qualified scientific testing company to conduct testing which will supply statistically significant and rigorous results.

 

If they did that proving it worked I might even think about getting one.

 

But I'll not hold me breath coz -

1) the product effectively claims to break the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics (more energy out than in).

2) Claims to produce ortho hydrogen . At room temp H2 is 75% ortho anyway.

Edited 9 January, 2018 by Aspman

[Guest Tpacs]

Yes i saw that one too and agree with you...that was why i had to satisfy myself about the kit....they have just purchased a PEMS machine as it happens !!! £250K....but all of that aside it all really quiet straight forward...the HHO acts as an additive...with a RON rating of 130+ it increases the burn speed significantly burning more of whats there or put it another way it burns waste fuel....anyway...im really impressed...tickles me when ever i drive the van knowing thats what is happening...fitting one to our other family vehicle...a big V8 petrol....

 

Im confident that these hydrogen cells are going to be a practical way of dealing with the daily dpf issues i see...less soot = less dpf problems....the economy and performance gains are just additional benefits.

 

I know there are alot of snake oil comments but really try it first..personally i think a better question should be how can it not work ?

 

Some positive info on this subject http://www.hho4free.com/documents/nasa_hho_proof.pdf

 

 

[Ootohere]

Not a difficult question.

 

What diesel engine in what vehicle, how old, how many miles done.

A 18% saving on fuel is lovely, so easier to know with what, and what the MPG was pre fitting of the product being discussed.

[Breezy_Pete]

I guess you are one of CGON's installers?

 

Edited 9 January, 2018 by Wino

[Guest Tpacs]

Ah ok...we have a couple of vans at work...mines a Traffic 2.0 115bhp model..remapped etc...80k on it which is used daily. I decided i didnt want to get into the "at a steady 70mph" type of test but use it with the Hydrogen cell as i do normally....i know that the way i drive...always in a rush !!! that i get 480-500 on a tank...light comes on and i fill up so this is what i used as a simple bench mark. I have to admit that when i first fitted the cell the performance gains where so noticeable...and the light came on with an 18% improvement....if anything...it seems to be improving.....and the response from the van is superb...and of course what im "feeling" is the un burnt fuel actually being combusted...and its this aspect that i am personally interested regarding dpf issues many of our customers suffer from...

 

With our Hydroflow kit we pass around 1850 litres of HHO through the combustion chamber whilst running it and targeting lets say the dpf...we have a 100% success rate since June so as far as Hydrogen goes...it simply works...the Cgon unit is really interesting as the HHO is really a fuel additive as im sold