VRS TSI Clutch Slip / Replacement after 17K Miles / Skoda reluctantly pays-out after proof of defect

[Orville]

Every day I chase the Dealer, and in-turn they chase Skoda Technical. Each time I am promised an update during the following day but Skoda Technical appears to be in no hurry to respond to their customers. They have had my pictures for over two weeks.

 

On the positive side if there were signs of abuse or normal wear & tear then I am sure they would have responded quickly. I know the clutch has been treated well and believe the pictures show an obvious manufacturing or assembly fault, but getting Skoda to see it is taking a long time.

Edited 21 May, 2016 by Orville

[GoneToBeemer]

Been following this with interest Orville - hope you get the outcome you want, albeit slow!

All the best.

[Orville]

The pictures below really tell the story. There is no way driving style can cause such uneven contact and wear. Even Skoda should see that pressure-plate and disc have never made full and proper contact.

Edited 21 May, 2016 by Orville

[octavianestate]

I had a used car (was 2 or 3 years old) bought on finance from a main dealer of thr car brand. Within two weeks I noticed that the car was juddering severely when pulling away when the engine was cold. I notified the dealer who investigated the problem and could never find fault. I kept returning the car over a time period and then each time the car was at dealer technical bulletins were carried out as these were the cause of the juddering I was told. They were not the cause so I suggested that it could be a clutch fault. Dealer not interested by now so I wrote to the finance company rejecting the car due to mechanical fault and dealer failure to rectify. Within a day of receiving the letter the dealer called me to arrange repair. The clutch was replaced without question and car was fixed.

Bringing the finance company into the problem sorted this out promptly.

Good luck to you

[Alpha2110]

I have my car back. The clutch has been replaced (at my cost), and first impression is that it is a completely different car to drive. Where the old clutch bit right at the top of the pedal (from new), the replacement bites close to the bottom. I nearly stalled it the first time pulling away. I would say that the old unit bit about an inch from the top and the new on an inch from the bottom. The difference is night & day and the new feels much better.

 

The mechanic was very friendly and explained the clutch and disc signs of wear to me. He said there was no way of knowing when the damage was done. It may have been my driving style (NOT), or even someone tearing it around the parking lot before I took delivery. The fact that bite point was high from new may indicate someone abused it within 10-20 miles before I got it, or that there was some unidentified issue. I will write a letter to Skoda, and follow-up as needed. I am certainly far from happy.

I doubt some one has abused it from the factory to the dealer PDI. It could be a faulty part, if you can be totally sure you or your wife haven't damage it through poor driving style I would seek legal help, and somewhere down the line get an independent engineers report. This will give you a much better chance of a positive resolution. The worse thing you mentioned is your wife is a bit Heavy on the clutch, although highly unlikely this would seriously reduce any chance of being reimbursed if anyone who works for skoda reads it. The down side of forums. I don't think on this engine it would take a lot to wreck the clutch, it's got an immense amount of torque. But for what it's worth 17k is nothing if it's being driven correctly.

[Alpha2110]

The pictures below really tell the story. There is no way driving style can cause such uneven contact and wear. Even Skoda should see that pressure-plate and disc have never made full and proper contact.

There could be many reasons for this, heat distortion,bad metal some proficient in metalogy or independent engineer could tell you this. Also the obvious one a clutch specialist,

[Orville]

The disc and plate are only worn around the outside. From what I have read (and I have read many clutch failure reports recently), a concave pressure-plate can be caused by faulty manufacturing or abuse. If the plate had been abused it would show clear signs and would be blue. My plate is not blue because it has never been abused. It had done only 15,000 mildly driven miles when I first noticed the tiniest amount of slip, and 17,000 miles before I could just about reproduce it for my Dealer to see. Even then the slippage was barely noticeable, but it was there.

 

Once again, there is no evidence of abuse because it has not been abused. The disc was always concave, as is evidenced by the lack of wear on the inside of disc, plate and flywheel. There may have been a second issue with the SAC, but this is impossible for me to prove with pictures. My bite point was very high, and the Dealer felt this. With so much disc material left the bite point would not have changed much since new (the SAC retains same bite point from new to old), so why was it so high? I am certainly no expert, but I know exactly how the car has been driven and to be honest I would have been disappointed if the clutch had failed after 80,000 miles. I know there must have been a defect that was not of my making, which is why I will chase this to the end.

Edited 22 May, 2016 by Orville

[Alpha2110]

Well if this is the case, and I think it's plausible get an independent report and start court proceedings it's not as expensive as you would think, and you would be reimbursed for all additional cost incured, but it's a lengthy process and probably turn your hair gray in the process.

Edited 22 May, 2016 by Alpha2110

[Orville]

Well if this is the case, and I think it's plausible get an independent report and start court proceedings it's not as expensive as you would think, and you would be reimbursed for all additional cost incured, but it's a lengthy process and probably turn your heir gray in the process.

I understand this, and if needed I will pursue independent reports and small claims, but currently Skoda's Technical Department are evaluating my photos and I await their response/decision.

Edited 22 May, 2016 by Orville

[Alpha2110]

I think the real issue is all the other cars that are affected if the clutch is defective and possibly hundreds of owners who have already paid the 800 quid to get it repaired.

[Orville]

I think the real issue is all the other cars that are affected if the clutch is defective and possibly hundreds of owners who have already paid the 800 quid to get it repaired.

To be fair on VAG I do not think there are many such cases. There are a few reports of early clutch slip on Golf's and Leon's but most of these were covered under warranty within 10,000 miles. I appear to be the first Octavia 3 owner to report such early failure. I really believe that my slippage took 15,000 miles to become noticeable because we drive the car so gently. If we had abused it a bit the clutch probably would have slipped within the first 5,000 miles and been replaced without any hassle.

 

I understand that the odd component will fail or be assembled incorrectly. Most of my new cars have returned to the dealer for some form of warranty work (usually for faulty electrics). What annoys me this time is that I have to prove manufacturing failure, rather than Skoda having to prove abuse. A 6-month / 6,000 mile new car clutch warranty is farcical when a manufacturing fault may not show itself within the first 6,000 miles. The onus should be on Skoda to prove the customer has abused their car. If it has been abused there should be evidence, and my pictures look like no other "abused clutch" I can find on the internet.

 

Sorry for ranting. I am feeling just a bit annoyed with Skoda.

Edited 22 May, 2016 by Orville

[Alpha2110]

I don't blame you, good look with it and I hope you get a positive outcome.

[FLAPPERJACK7]

I knew this clutch issue would cause friction.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Jaco2k]

I knew this clutch issue would cause friction.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

That's harsh, but I guess this time it will slip and no one will engage with you.

[DrTh]

Orville, on 22 May 2016 - 20:04, said:

 

 

I understand that the odd component will fail or be assembled incorrectly. Most of my new cars have returned to the dealer for some form of warranty work (usually for faulty electrics). What annoys me this time is that I have to prove manufacturing failure, rather than Skoda having to prove abuse. A 6-month / 6,000 mile new car clutch warranty is farcical when a manufacturing fault may not show itself within the first 6,000 miles. The onus should be on Skoda to prove the customer has abused their car. If it has been abused there should be evidence, and my pictures look like no other "abused clutch" I can find on the internet.

 

Sorry for ranting. I am feeling just a bit annoyed with Skoda.

 

 

If you look at EU directive 1999 44 ec, that gives you two years effective warranty from the seller and you don't have to prove the problem. 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/victoriaderbyshire/2009/05/that_piece_of_eu_legislation_y.html

[Orville]

After exchanging 30+ emails, numerous phone calls, providing 29 high-resolution images, and waiting 18-days for a response from Skoda Technical Department, I get the following email reply from my Dealer. They couldn't even be bothered to call me.

 

Quote: "Skoda have informed me that after viewing the images they can see no obvious manufacturing defects only wear and distortion resulting from heat."

 

What a detailed explanation after 18-days of analysis by Skoda's Technical Experts. I wonder whether they even bothered to read my comments or look at the pictures. After talking with Skoda Customer Services (for a very long time today) they will take up my case with Technical Support tomorrow. I have also written them a very long email, resent all of the photos, and linked to this thread. This could take some months.....

 

Never again will I buy a Skoda. My wife is now frightened to drive the thing in case something else breaks or falls off. Her next car will be Japanese..

Edited 23 May, 2016 by Orville

[DrTh]

time to get a report done of your own and get some legal help. 

[dsj20v]

Reports on ed38 of a problem with clutch on golf 7r

[paulwebster]

Skoda are giving you the runaround. At this stage, you should only be talking to your solicitor.

[Alpha2110]

I agree with Orville regarding the failure mode, however playing devils advocate, if the roles were reversed and you worked for skoda you might have been given the brief by you superior to tow the company line and make the customer prove beyond any doubt that it's manufacturing defect. They must get hundreds of dishonest people trying to screw them for warrenty work, this is probably why there being the way they are.

Unfortuntly for you and this is always the case decent people always end up paying for dishonest inderviduals, directly or indirectly, personal injury claims as an example.

The trap you are in now is you fight for your money, as you are morally and probably legally write, or you write it off. Taking this further takes time and it's stressful, and of course you have to prove your correct, otherwise it potentially will cost more money. Hopefully skoda uk will role over as it will cost them a darn site more in time there employees and legal department spend on paying out for the work. I guess they will probably split the bill from receiving a legal letter, it turns the heat up another notch, let's them know your serious.

[neiln]

After exchanging 30+ emails, numerous phone calls, providing 29 high-resolution images, and waiting 18-days for a response from Skoda Technical Department, I get the following email reply from my Dealer. They couldn't even be bothered to call me.

 

Quote: "Skoda have informed me that after viewing the images they can see no obvious manufacturing defects only wear and distortion resulting from heat."

 

What a detailed explanation after 18-days of analysis by Skoda's Technical Experts. I wonder whether they even bothered to read my comments or look at the pictures. After talking with Skoda Customer Services (for a very long time today) they will take up my case with Technical Support tomorrow. I have also written them a very long email, resent all of the photos, and linked to this thread. This could take some months.....

 

Never again will I buy a Skoda. My wife is now frightened to drive the thing in case something else breaks or falls off. Her next car will be Japanese..

That is very poor in my view.  Like most on here I'm not a clutch specialist but I find it hard to imagine how heat would have distorted the pressure plate that way.  If you can find an independent clutch specialist to examine and report on the clutch I would think they would find it a straight forward task to examine and report their findings.

[Orville]

Heat cannot have distorted the pressure-plate by that much. If it had then the plate would be blue across its surface, there would be severe heat spots, and the disc itself would also show signs of heat damage. Apart from very uneven wear both items are in good condition and very far from worn out. The centres of both disc and plate look pretty much new. The reason for slippage is because there was lack of contact area from day#1, as indicated by no wear on the inside portions of plate and disc.

 

Here are some pictures of a heat-damaged pressure-plates. Mine looks absolutely nothing like this, and these appear to have worn far more evenly than mine despite their obvious abuse.

Edited 23 May, 2016 by Orville

[Orville]

I received a call from Skoda Customer Services this evening. The lady was friendly, and recited a response from Skoda Technical Support. Apparently it's a slipping clutch that was the cause of my problems, and the slipping clutch was caused by wear & tear - DOH . When I asked why the pressure-plate and disc were only worn around the outside, and how this could happen when there were no signs of heat damage there was no answer. It seems that Skoda Technical follow some script and do not actually read the information or view any pictures provided to them. The nice lady proceeded to tell me that it is the Dealer who decided whether such work is covered under warranty and not Skoda themselves. I pointed out that the Dealer told me the exact opposite, and that Skoda Customer Services (oxymoron), the Dealer, and myself had already gone through this loop several times in the past.

 

Anyway, I asked that Skoda CS email me the details of which Company was actually refusing the warranty claim so that I could raise case towards them via the Small Claims Court. I asked for specific Company name, Company address, and Company Number of the refusing party. Customer Services then promised to escalate my dispute to the highest level, which is apparently one level beneath the Directors Office. I anticipate another call tomorrow. If the outcome is unsatisfactory then I will pay for independent inspection before taking it to Small Claims.

 

I am really annoyed with Skoda. They have dithered, delayed, misinformed, contradicted themselves, broken promises to get back to me, changed stories, and dare I say it lied to me. They did not inspect my clutch fully or even attempt to identify root cause, and seem reluctant to read or look at any information I provide them. They are all smiles and courtesy upfront, but their Customer Services actually have no substance.

 

*First I was told that my flywheel had worn out, and that flywheel, plate & disc would be replaced.

*When I asked to retain the parts I was told that the flywheel was perfectly fine, and that it was just the disc & plate which were worn / completely blue with obvious heat damage.

*When I received and inspected the parts they were NOT blue and there are no obvious signs of heat damage, just signs of slippage and wear around the outside edge due to improper contact.

*Dealer told me that only Skoda could authorise warranty replacement and they just do what they are told.

*Customer Services say that Dealer decides whether it is warranty replacement (someone was either lying or incompetent)

*Dealer said that only CS could raise a Warranty Claim Case

*CS said that only Dealer could raise a Warranty Claim Case - This went backwards & forwards before Dealer raised a case with Tech Support.

*Dealer told me that they raised a case with Tech Support, had chased them daily from 5th May to 23rd May for response, and had provided them with all of the photos and comments I had provided.

*Customer Services told me on 23rd that the Technical Support Case had only been opened 3-days previously and that only 3 pictures (out of 29 I had supplied) had been posted within the case.

*Yesterday Customer Services said that Tech Support reported their were clear heat spots and heat damage on the flywheel. I asked why it was that the flywheel was the only item NOT replaced if it was the only item showing damage. They could not answer this. The supposed flywheel heat spots were not mentioned during today's conversation, just wear & tear of the replaced disc & plate. Their story always changes and they never answer my questions.

 

In total I have sent 40-odd emails, made 20+ phone calls to Dealer and Customer Services and sent almost 30 pictures. I have asked Skoda to provide a full explanation of what exactly they see to justify their "wear & tear" diagnosis, but I receive no proper response. I ask to speak directly to one of their Technical Experts but they will not talk to me. I am sure they hope that I will just give up and go away without them having to perform any real analysis.

 

I am convinced there was a fault because I know exactly how the car has been driven. The pictures back this up and I will not give up.

 

Thanks Skoda for truly awful service and outright technical incompetence. My wife is now scared to drive the car in case something else breaks. She wants me to get rid of it as soon as we get our clutch money back.

 

Rant over.

Edited 26 May, 2016 by Orville

[GoneToBeemer]

Hats off for your commitment mate, and clearly you have a case.

It's service like this that not only puts the person who's experiencing it off the brand, but people reading it may now also think twice (myself included). It's not the fact that something may go wrong, to be fair you run the risk of that with any car you buy, it's what the company does to put it right if things do go wrong and how they deal with their (should be valued!) customers.

It's clear that ether Skoda don't know their ar$e from their elbow, communication is poor, and people are blatantly making things up when they don't know the answer. If I did that in my job I know where I'd find myself...the dole queue!!

Hope you get it sorted mate - will be worth every penny in your own costs to get the right resolve.

[Orville]

Rather predictably the promised next-level call from Skoda never arrived today. They really are hopeless.