10 minutes ago, Wino said:

The government will definitely not go through with anything short term on this. Massive vote loser.

 

here's hoping.....

18 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

^^^ You are sorted then, if you do not want Interest free loans and tax breaks and a EV is no use do not bother.

Be a rebel with a cause.

 

How active are you going to be in 20 years anyway?.  You might be in a battery powered  mobility scooter, 

or just a wheel chair human powered.

 

 

 

Hopefully as active as people I know who are that age now & still ski mountaineer & climb in their late 60's & early seventies....

 

I have always been fit & active & look after myself, never smoked, hardly drink & eat heathy....see the docs once a blue moon.....

 

& I buy my cars so no need for pcp & all that rubbish which is another reason we are using up the earths resources & causing massive debt in society people borrowing way beyond their incomes..."you can have it all you are worth it"...fecking USA marketing middle management BS hype....the American DREAM...not reality...

Edited 24 November, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

So do not buy one, stick with what you like as long as you can, or buy a classic car because MP's are never banning them.

They even changed the law, no MOT, free VED, its just a fact, political classes. Those in the Lords and those investing in vehicles need 

Classic Cars to go on for ever, those that run the country have so much tied up in them.

Edited 24 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/tech/bmw-invests-200m-in-battery-tech-400-mile-range-by-2021/

3 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@wyx087 - "Petrol stations" are much more common than public chargers, particularly in Scotland.

Give it a few years There's £400 million charging infrastructure fund in this week's budget.

(not that I've got much hope in the government doing it well, but still, it's a good start)

Don’t fight it -

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1113776_5-ways-electric-cars-outperform-gas-powered-cars

9 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Don’t fight it -

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1113776_5-ways-electric-cars-outperform-gas-powered-cars

 

Biggest load of rollocks that article...

 

Most EV cars ATM have conventional brakes & one motor where the ICE was...NOT a motor in each wheel..

 

& most are still restricted by "packaging" as the main problem is siting the suspension & drivetrain which you still have that is one of the biggest factors in Packaging the car...at it directly affect wheelbase, luggage space, cabin room...& and the battery pack affects the depth of the boot floor & your footwell depth 

 

Forgot to also mention the increased total weight of the EV drivetrain & battery packs...

 

Flipping idiot who wrote that article..even shows a Tesla new wiz bang which has conventional brakes & therefore not four motors (one in each wheel)..

2 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

Biggest load of rollocks that article...

 

Most EV cars ATM have conventional brakes & one motor where the ICE was...NOT a motor in each wheel..

 

& most are still restricted by "packaging" as the main problem is siting the suspension & drivetrain which you still have that is one of the biggest factors in Packaging the car...at it directly affect wheelbase, luggage space, cabin room...& and the battery pack affects the depth of the boot floor & your footwell depth 

 

Forgot to also mention the increased total weight of the EV drivetrain & battery packs...

 

Flipping idiot who wrote that article..even shows a Tesla new wiz bang which has conventional brakes & therefore not four motors (one in each wheel)..

 

The T model got a bit of development also.

The drop-off of torque in proportion to motor speed doesn't feature either. 

They claim that not having a gearbox is a bonus, when actually it could ameliorate the above problem.

And are they seriously suggesting that an ICE car can't have its accelerator pedal mapped to any input/output function that anyone wants?

 

Other than that, yeah, unfightable.

 

The car dealers don’t want to know -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113978_car-dealers-are-woefully-unprepared-for-electric-vehicles-study

JLR have getting things sorted for a few years now and are ready to go with decent EV's.

 

Maybe the Indian owners can have enough British produced parts in to keep the UK Government happy and giving them more money,

 

 

Edited 27 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

11 hours ago, Wino said:

The drop-off of torque in proportion to motor speed doesn't feature either. 

They claim that not having a gearbox is a bonus, when actually it could ameliorate the above problem.

And are they seriously suggesting that an ICE car can't have its accelerator pedal mapped to any input/output function that anyone wants?

 

Other than that, yeah, unfightable.

 

It's different. You won't be able to have 2nd gear heavy braking effect mapped into the gearbox where the moment you let off your foot, it engine brakes. You'd need to change several gear instantly.

 

Gearbox in EV have been experimented. The very first iteration of Tesla Roadster had 2 gears. But it didn't work well. The smarter way to do it is to have lower gearing (like 3rd gear) on the rear wheels and higher gear (like 6th gear) for front. This is how Tesla dual motor cars can have better range than single motor variants on the motorway.

 

11 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

Most EV cars ATM have conventional brakes & one motor where the ICE was...NOT a motor in each wheel..

 

& most are still restricted by "packaging" as the main problem is siting the suspension & drivetrain which you still have that is one of the biggest factors in Packaging the car...at it directly affect wheelbase, luggage space, cabin room...& and the battery pack affects the depth of the boot floor & your footwell depth 

The article did point out it is a possibility. The electric motor and gearbox can currently be as small as a football (in fact, that's exactly how Nissan engineer described the Sunderland built Leaf's motor). The only limiting factor is the wheelbase, how long it needs for a large enough battery. The power unit (motor) is no longer a packaging concern in purposefully designed EV's.

 

There have been research cars where the motor is inside each wheel, replacing brake and has supercapacitors to enable super heavy regeneration => super heavy braking => physical brakes no longer required.

Edited 28 November, 20178 yr by wyx087

Motor-in-wheel would have resulted in an unsprung weight issue I would have thought .

CofG doesn’t seem to be an issue, batteries being so low slung .

Toyota sees the need for fundamental change in management thinking -

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20171128/COPY/311289984/toyota-sounds-now-or-never-alarm-with-management-shuffle?cciid=email-autonews-blast

39 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Motor-in-wheel would have resulted in an unsprung weight issue I would have thought .

CofG doesn’t seem to be an issue, batteries being so low slung .

It was still at research stage, there's also legislation barriers.

 

The vehicle I saw on youtube looks very similar to this one in this 2014 paper. Unfortunately can't find the actual video.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6980652/

The idea is to use a hybrid of supercapacitors and battery for optimum power management.

Lots of bright people have been working on electric motors for a long time now, just batteries to be sorted out. 

(charging times,  amount of electricity stored, cost of manufacturing, materials required & availability etc.)

 

Edited 28 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

Graphene to enable faster battery charging -

https://www.cemag.us/blog/2017/11/report-graphene-ball-technology-could-charge-phones-5x-faster?et_cid=6190428&et_rid=916553762&type=cta&et_cid=6190428&et_rid=916553762&linkid=https%3a%2f%2fwww.cemag.us%2fblog%2f2017%2f11%2freport-graphene-ball-technology-could-charge-phones-5x-faster%3fet_cid%3d6190428%26et_rid%3d%%subscriberid%%%26type%3dcta

3 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Graphene to enable faster battery charging -

https://www.cemag.us/blog/2017/11/report-graphene-ball-technology-could-charge-phones-5x-faster?et_cid=6190428&et_rid=916553762&type=cta&et_cid=6190428&et_rid=916553762&linkid=https%3a%2f%2fwww.cemag.us%2fblog%2f2017%2f11%2freport-graphene-ball-technology-could-charge-phones-5x-faster%3fet_cid%3d6190428%26et_rid%3d%%subscriberid%%%26type%3dcta

 

 

I was stating a few pages back that I would wait unlit they production-ised Graphine...

 

Of course it allows faster charging....Graphite has NO electrical resistance..therefore no friction & resistance to the electron flow..no heat build up....etc....etc....

 

also NO loss of power in the transfer process....thats what people forget when the big overheads transmit power a certain % is lost as heat /sound.....so what arrives at one end is less than what was transmitted...

10 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

 

I was stating a few pages back that I would wait unlit they production-ised Graphine...

 

Of course it allows faster charging....Graphite has NO electrical resistance..therefore no friction & resistance to the electron flow..no heat build up....etc....etc....

 

also NO loss of power in the transfer process....thats what people forget when the big overheads transmit power a certain % is lost as heat /sound.....so what arrives at one end is less than what was transmitted...

It’s the transition from lab to production that’s the frontier AFAIC.

More than the odd person working on it though, I suspect.

As @fabdavrav says above; I remember from when I was much younger being able to hear the 33kV lines outside my parental grandparents' house humming. Of course, I didn't know what the noise was back then.

 

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20171129/ANE/171129732/bmw-may-make-mini-an-electric-brand-in-u-s?cciid=email-autonews-blast

52 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

As @fabdavrav says above; I remember from when I was much younger being able to hear the 33kV lines outside my parental grandparents' house humming. Of course, I didn't know what the noise was back then.

As posted many pages ago: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113175_electric-cars-win-on-energy-efficiency-vs-hydrogen-gasoline-diesel-analysis

 

EV have estimated 73% efficiency converting renewable electricity (the output point on solar panels) to energy at the wheels. About 14% of which is lost to transmission and inversion. (the noise you speak of)

Whereas the most efficient ICE car engine is 44% efficient: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-efficient-internal-combustion-engine. Most cars are 30-40% efficient converting energy in petrol/diesel to power out of the engine (before clutch and gearbox). While we are told to forget the vast amount of energy required to refine crude oil near the beginning of the process.

 

 

People seem to forget the powerstation that generates the electricity for Grangemouth's petrochemical plant and the fuel cracking plant,  and the oil and gas also required to operate the generation of power.  now that Ineos are not getting to frack in Scotland they have there oil and gas fields purchased and the pipeline to ensure being able not just to get the oil in and processed along with the gas that comes from the USA, but maybe they will be producing extra electricity soon. 

Edited 29 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

Efficiency is nice, but until the stored energy density difference drops well below an order of magnitude - approximately what it is now - electric cars will still be very limited. The relative efficiency at point of fuel use comes nowhere near compensating.

The new higher capacity (than lead acid) batteries can enable less electrification on the rail, cutting down electrification costs. 1
 

 

"inherently safe" batteries, where you can stick steel pipes through them and crush them without any problem. For the same undercarriage packaging as diesel generators, the 90kWh battery offer 1.5x higher output.

 

If I heard correctly (about a minute before embedded video starting point) it's this type of battery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery#Advantages_and_disadvantages

 

But EV doesn't use it because of comparatively lower energy density. Li-Po used in quadcopter drones have highest density, but they are very flammable when shorted/damaged and, from experience, degrade faster. Not all Lithium batteries are made equal.

Edited 29 November, 20178 yr by wyx087