6 hours ago, wyx087 said:

I only said certain EV is safer than ICE in a crash due to the way it's been designed and that battery pack can help stop protrusion into cabin.

 

Y I thought you were suggesting the Li-on can go up in flames by itself. Now it's changed to due to overcurrent, which means BMS fault? Which is it? And you are sure the DC fast chargers has no over current protection? There seems to be a lot of assumptions being made here.

 

EV charger is installed professionally 

 

Yes, EV pulls more current. That is why we have OLEV grants installing EV chargers at home. Because it is not safe to always charge using the 3-pin "granny" charger, it is also very slow. But the risk is constant high current. Home circuit is not designed to be constantly serving 2.5kW over 10 hours, more designed for 3kW over 2 hours for the oven.

However, the granny charger does monitor itself, its cable, its plug and cut-off if there's possibility of excess heat being generated.

 

 

I have been stating VARIOUS causes of the battery pack/EV car to go on fire...

 

Crash it and it can go on fire as per the links...just the EV fire is difficult to deal with as you cant drown it in water until you cut the power off via the manufactures special "power cut" device or wire...thing is you have to get to it first.... & whilst the car is in flames...nice one...other wise you risk high electric shock...& powder etc don't work as well

 

In the EV car fire at charging station, some were the battery pack, which started the fire some were the charger which started the fire..

 

& the chargers in these incidents were professionally installed...they have to be by elec cert people in that county....

 

Also both the chargers were monitoring type, hell one was a top end fancy Tesla Supercharger!!

 

That previous link was about overvoltage..the OP had had numerous appliances blow due to overvoltage supply by the electric company..."""We have gone through 2 washing machines, 2 dishwashers, 5 toasters, 2 computers along with kitchen lighting transformers and about 20 or more halogen bulbs and also more than a dozen energy bulbs...I have had 4 inspections and nothing was found to be at fault. I called my electrical supplier and they contacted UK Networks..recorded a staggering 254.5 volts. Well above the legal limit of 253 volts."""""

 

So a 7kW charger is 30amps rated at 230V....legal supply limit of 253V its up to 7590W....imagine that 8.42% increase overnight the whole time..which will throw the charger calcs out......by by battery....

 

Sometimes the onboard charging control unit (all EV have one) fails..sometimes the wall charger control unit fails...in both cases usually its a minor component or more usually a software bug.... & yes sometimes because of this the battery fails & goes on fire first because it gets too hot & a chemical cascade fire starts...

 

Thinking that its all been professionally installed & has fancy protection monitoring & therefore all ok didn't help the Smart or the Tesla.......the more that get sold & installed the more incidents will happen..

 

P.S.:-

Charger unit burning out (for Nissan Leaf) which caused $10K damage to garage, wiring was to code etc...just the unit got very hot..

https://speakev.com/threads/house-fire-using-120v-trickle-charger.1708/

 

Chevy Volt, again home owner noticing burn marks on wall around charger....again wiring ok...

http://gm-volt.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-19452.html

 

Owners charging unit heating up & melting (was used for Leaf now e-Golf), which could have been stopped if the owner had maker (Blink) wifi update & or defective handles when charging at High amps by reading the thread..

http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8372

 

BMWi3 charger unit getting hot & plug melting, faulty design??...

http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3841

 

Again like the Tesla & Smart charging fires these items are being installed & used as per instructions etc.....just that due to the high Amp draw even on these plug in units...over night charging can cause failures....

 

Personally I wouldn't trust one...& would highly recommend a smoke alarm linked to inside the house, an easy to get to isolation switch to shut of the elect supply to the charging unit, & a foam/halon type extinguisher...plus a garden hose... 

Edited 21 November, 20178 yr by fabdavrav
finding more info

5 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

So a 7kW charger is 30amps rated at 230V....legal supply limit of 253V its up to 7590W....imagine that 8.42% increase overnight the whole time..which will throw the charger calcs out......by by battery....

Love the way you assume it's that simple as though the BMS only looks at one variable. Also, I think you'll want a pressurised fire hydrant, a garden house won't be enough!

 

The Leaf case, the Volt burnt plug and i3 case are all because bad connection between EVSE "granny" charger plug and domestic mains socket. I've mentioned this problem in my previous post. These sockets are not designed to be constantly delivering 2.5kW over 10+ hours. I wouldn't trust the granny charger either, kept a close eye on it and only charged at most 5 hours at a time before we had EV charger installed.  Actual dedicated home charger is preferred long term solution to EV charging.

 

The previously mentioned thermal sensor in EVSE plug: https://speakev.com/threads/putting-a-new-plug-on-an-evse-and-the-thermal-sensor-question.57161/

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 I've mentioned this problem in my previous post. These sockets are not designed to be constantly delivering 2.5kW over 10+ hours. I wouldn't trust the granny charger either, kept a close eye on it and only charged at most 5 hours at a time before we had EV charger installed.  

 

 

 

So why the Feck do the car manufactures include them?? There appears to be no time limit on usage...so although the manufacture could state for occasional emergency use there is a chance it will go up if used overnight..eg if you are staying at a friends & plug your EV in to charge overnight & end up burning the charger out which sets on fire the house or whatever its near.....

 

Still doesn't explain away the Smart & Tesla fires which were using proper big chargers (one a Tesla public supercharger), ...& not the tiny "granny" chargers...

 

@fabdavrav - Haven't you noticed that wyx087's "debating" style is to just ignore anything that doesn't suit their worldview?

I'm surprised that you are surprised at manufacturers' lapse in responsibility, as a fellow VAG car driver. How would you feel if they tell you "This £250 cable that you've paid for with your car can only be used for 3 hours a time, recovering 6 miles in total."

 

On the other hand, these "granny" chargers are used by quite a lot of people, especially PHV (plug-in hybrid hardly-electric vehicle with a tiny electric-only range) because understandably they don't want to fork out further £300 on a proper EV charger for such a small electric mileage return. To be fair, the main problem is the plug to domestic sockets.

 

The anecdote of 2 fire cases (most probably be more) are pale in comparison to the amount of EV's being charged every day.

Tesla being higher profile and easier to search, I came across the cause for the Tesla supercharger fire:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-short-circuit-cause-for-model-s-norway-fire/

The Norwegian Directorate for Civil Protection and Emergency Planning chief engineer had this to say: “The owner had time to run back, unplug the charger connector and remove his possessions from the car. It took several minutes before the car was ablaze. Normally an electric vehicle fire is not as explosive as it can be in a petrol car. The flames you see in the picture and video were mostly from plastic in the interior that caught fire.” He emphasized that the battery did not explode.

 

 

@KenONeill which of your point have I "ignored"?

 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

 

On the other hand, these "granny" chargers are used by quite a lot of people, especially PHV (plug-in hybrid hardly-electric vehicle with a tiny electric-only range) because understandably they don't want to fork out further £300 on a proper EV charger for such a small electric mileage return. To be fair, the main problem is the plug to domestic sockets.

 

The anecdote of 2 fire cases (most probably be more) are pale in comparison to the amount of EV's being charged every day.

Tesla being higher profile and easier to search, I came across the cause for the Tesla supercharger fire:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-short-circuit-cause-for-model-s-norway-fire/

 

 

Firstly that Tesla fire was caused (as far as they can tell) by a short in the distribution box of the Supercharger....they then go on to state:- ""the company says it will update the software package in the Model S to provide extra security during charging. It tells VG the update will include a diagnostic solution to prevent charging if a potential short circuit is detected.""

 

So basically they had no short circuit protect at all.......That is just plain basics that they are getting wrong....& this over reliance of "software update" what if you have one of these & live where the internet & mobile reception is rubbish? You can't get software updates & therefore is your warranty void as you don't have the latest update & the charger sets your car on fire....

 

The really funny stuff is this:- ""Norwegian firefighters, concerned for their own safety during their first encounter with a burning electric car, allowed the fire to burn itself out while protecting surrounding buildings with fire retardant foam."" ....so like many other EV fire basically retreat to a safe distance & let the car burn to the ground....that's fine unless its in your garage attached to your house & takes your house with it....

 

You stated on 21/11/17 at 10:30:- 

""Incidents happen, cars burn down, only difference is that "car burnt down" is less news worthy than "shinny new electric car burnt down". These things do happen but without solid statistical analysis, you can't really say one technology is safer than the other. What you ARE saying is that due to these isolated incidents, we must not use them in the way they are designed to be used. It's similar to saying vaccine causes autism."""......

 

You were "having a go" at me ...yet you clearly state that the granny chargers should not be used every night as per the manufactures instructions...well they don't state otherwise.....kettle calling pot black...

 

 

To recap the risks of EV are:--

Your battery pack my overheat/short circuit/explode.....when the car crashes, or when the car is charging....

 

The charger if a granny one & used every night for hours, will overheat , burn, & set on fire what ever is near it...

 

The Main bigger 7kw version you have installed might short circuit, overvolt, over charge, or require an update, otherwise this may overheat, & burn down the wall its attached to & or set a chemical cascade type fire in the battery pack....taking the garage/house with it...

 

When you go & use the fancy public supercharger, again it may overvolt, short circuit, etc & set the car on fire....

 

 

In all my 23yrs or owning & driving petrol cars I've never had anywhere near that amount of risk problems......& the fact the TED (Time Exposed to Danger) was below 10mins in the petrol station inc paying.....these EV cars are way to dangerous....

 

& NOT green when they go up in flames.....all those toxins & way more than a petrol car going up..

@wyx087 - To pick one example, you still haven't said how an electric vehicle of a given size causes less congestion than a hydrocarbon vehicle the same size. You are remembering that the Inner London charging zone is called a "Congestion Charge Zone", not a "Low Emissions (at point of use) Zone"? And that congestion is caused by numbers of vehicles, not fuel type?

'Low Emission Zones' coming to locations in Scotland sooner than later though & in the RoUK.

 

So that will be that, just the future is not here yet, but on its way, probably on a Diesel HGV.

Low Emission Zone - Transport for London.mhtml

 

1 hour ago, fabdavrav said:

Firstly that Tesla fire was caused (as far as they can tell) by a short in the distribution box of the Supercharger....they then go on to state:- ""the company says it will update the software package in the Model S to provide extra security during charging. It tells VG the update will include a diagnostic solution to prevent charging if a potential short circuit is detected.""

 

So basically they had no short circuit protect at all.......That is just plain basics that they are getting wrong....& this over reliance of "software update" what if you have one of these & live where the internet & mobile reception is rubbish? You can't get software updates & therefore is your warranty void as you don't have the latest update & the charger sets your car on fire....

 

The really funny stuff is this:- ""Norwegian firefighters, concerned for their own safety during their first encounter with a burning electric car, allowed the fire to burn itself out while protecting surrounding buildings with fire retardant foam."" ....so like many other EV fire basically retreat to a safe distance & let the car burn to the ground....that's fine unless its in your garage attached to your house & takes your house with it....

 

You were "having a go" at me ...yet you clearly state that the granny chargers should not be used every night as per the manufactures instructions...well they don't state otherwise.....kettle calling pot black...

 

 

To recap the risks of EV are:--

Your battery pack my overheat/short circuit/explode.....when the car crashes, or when the car is charging....

 

The charger if a granny one & used every night for hours, will overheat , burn, & set on fire what ever is near it...

 

The Main bigger 7kw version you have installed might short circuit, overvolt, over charge, or require an update, otherwise this may overheat, & burn down the wall its attached to & or set a chemical cascade type fire in the battery pack....taking the garage/house with it...

 

When you go & use the fancy public supercharger, again it may overvolt, short circuit, etc & set the car on fire....

 

Before you spread the false information and cherry pick from the article, please re-read the article carefully:

• It was a short in the Tesla vehicle. Supercharger had short circuit protection and turned off automatically.
  • "The cause was a short circuit in the distribution box in the car. Superchargers were turned off immediately when the short circuit was discovered."
• It was a precaution they didn't try to put out the fire because there were no prior experience.
  • "during their first encounter with a burning electric car"
• Also, I'd like to point out that the battery itself never contributed to the fire.
  • "The flames you see in the picture and video were mostly from plastic in the interior that caught fire"

Many of those risks also apply to ICE cars: short circuit, explode, overheat. Even bigger risk at petrol station, which you have to visit every 100-600 miles, on the other hand, it is possible to never visit a 50kW+ rapid charging station in the lifetime of EV ownership.

(yes, a hire Nissan Micra had driving range of 120 miles according to its onboard computer)

 

Here's part of many pages of warnings regarding the EVSE granny charger in an American Leaf manual I downloaded:

"The NISSAN Genuine EVSE (Electric

Vehicle Supply Equipment) charging

device provided with your vehicle

draws 12amps continuously while

charging the Li-ion battery. Do not plug

in to any electrical circuit unless it is

inspected by a licensed electrician to

confirm that the electrical circuit can

accept a 12 amp draw. Any electrical

circuit has a much higher likelihood of

being compromised in the following

conditions listed below.

– Improper use of the charger may

result in a fire and serious injury or

death.

– Do not use this charger in structures

more than 40 years old.

– Do not use this charger in structures

using fuse-based circuit protection.

Use only with electrical circuits protected

by circuit breakers.

– Do not use this charger on electrical

circuits with two-prong outlets.

– Do not use charger if outlet appears

damaged or will not hold plug firmly.

– Discontinue charger use immediately

if plug or outlet becomes hot

to the touch or if you notice any

unusual odors.

– Do not use charger if other devices

are plugged into the same circuit.

– Never use extension cords or plug

adapters with charger.

– Do not operate with a damaged

cord."

 

Before I found out Nissan has offers to cover home EV charger cost (meaning I had free EV charger install), I talked to an electrician for prices to have a separate external circuit installed onto the driveway for EV charging. Quoted price was £270 for a 13amp socket. Exact same location with EV home charger installed costs just under £800, where the charger hardware costs £500 (OLEV grant covers this). 

 

 

17 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

@wyx087 - To pick one example, you still haven't said how an electric vehicle of a given size causes less congestion than a hydrocarbon vehicle the same size. You are remembering that the Inner London charging zone is called a "Congestion Charge Zone", not a "Low Emissions (at point of use) Zone"? And that congestion is caused by numbers of vehicles, not fuel type?

Congestion charge is not based on fuel type. If your diesel can achieve 74g/km then it can also be made exempt. But we all know in the real world, only an EV can achieve less than 74g/km tailpipe emission.

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

 

 

Here's part of many pages of warnings regarding the EVSE granny charger in an American Leaf manual I downloaded:

"The NISSAN Genuine EVSE (Electric

Vehicle Supply Equipment) charging

device provided with your vehicle

draws 12amps continuously while

charging the Li-ion battery. Do not plug

in to any electrical circuit unless it is

inspected by a licensed electrician to

confirm that the electrical circuit can

accept a 12 amp draw. Any electrical

circuit has a much higher likelihood of

being compromised in the following

conditions listed below.

– Improper use of the charger may

result in a fire and serious injury or

death.

– Do not use this charger in structures

more than 40 years old.

– Do not use this charger in structures

using fuse-based circuit protection.

Use only with electrical circuits protected

by circuit breakers.

– Do not use this charger on electrical

circuits with two-prong outlets.

– Do not use charger if outlet appears

damaged or will not hold plug firmly.

– Discontinue charger use immediately

if plug or outlet becomes hot

to the touch or if you notice any

unusual odors.

– Do not use charger if other devices

are plugged into the same circuit.

– Never use extension cords or plug

adapters with charger.

– Do not operate with a damaged

cord."

 

 

 

 

"Do not use in structure over 40yrs old"....

 

 

hahaha......Oh well living in 100yr old house....looks like I'll have to put up with my petrol then...what a real shame....

 

Mind you I don't have to worry about it catching fire when parked up in the garage.....yep 10 mins max TED risk every time I fill up compared to how many hrs every time you charge the EV & I get more mileage per petrol fill than a EV charge (defo in winter up here)....so I recon I could get at least 12 petrol station visits TED compared to just one EV charge....

 

 

I'll stick with the safer ICE for now....

Nobody ever suggested you could not.

Just some politicians put a date in the future where you can not buy another, and some places where you might not use what you have.

 

Lots of water going to be under the bridges and flooding roads before that happens.

So Tesla new truck & sports car....

 

Nice ideas but looking at the stats for the chargers for the batteries, I think heavy duty rubber gaunlets (EHV approved) need to be included FOC...

 

The sports cars has a 200kWhr battery pack.....so to charge it up in 60mins requires 200kW charger...that's some high voltage & I hope theta everyone who orders one realises that they are going to have to put a flipping big (if the electric company allow a huge draw) charger in their garage. The current supercharger has approx. 120kW output so will this use the new mega-charger??

 

Then there's the truck & doubts over the battery size...as not specified, but based on certain factors the charger in a Megawatt size....so very high voltages & they recon double 

 

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-semi-megacharger-charging-port-close-up-look/

 

Now normally to handle such high voltages & plug & unplug stuff with this rating even "dead" requires a certain HV electrical cert, ...so is this part of the sales package???

 

Having done electrical design & worked for the Hydro board I find these high voltages frightening in the hands of joe public....the fires that have all ready been caused by the on board distribution pack (on the car as per Norway as wyx087 states) will just get worse....& EVH fires are very interesting...

 

8 up to 120 kW Tesla Charging Stations at the Hilton Dundee.

Trump International Aberdeen & Turnberry Charging Station EV or Tesla 0.

 

More Hydrogen produced from the Renewables Electricity Generation required, 

but then that has not got the Electricity stored for going back into the National Grid once that is more common.

 

Edited 23 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

14 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

The sports cars has a 200kWhr battery pack.....so to charge it up in 60mins requires 200kW charger...that's some high voltage & I hope theta everyone who orders one realises that they are going to have to put a flipping big (if the electric company allow a huge draw) charger in their garage. The current supercharger has approx. 120kW output so will this use the new mega-charger??

120kW charger will be able to charge 20% to 80% in 1 hour. Enough for long distance travel: you drive 400 miles, about 6 hours, in the morning, have 1 hour food munching break, and drive additional 400 hours in the afternoon, covering 800 miles in 1 day. Don't know about you, I'd want to rest during 2-3 times those 6 hour drives, where you can also charge up.

 

Then there's the misconception that you must fully recharge the moment you get home. A standard 7kW home charger (biggest you can get without 3-phase at your home) will be able to charge 56kWh over 8 hours. That would be 168 miles based on Roadster's quoted 200kWh does 600 miles. If you drive 150 miles daily without any stop, I salute you!

 

 

BUT! What most people don't realise is that current Tesla supercharger is paired in 2's. If both are charging, you get just over half of the maximum rate. Usually how it works is that the late comer will get something like 40kW until the other one slows down after 80%. It's more of a problem now with more Tesla's about. Luckily there's always superchargers popping up, Tesla must have data analysis on usage patterns and ownership map.

 

CCS standard is looking at 350kW standard rapid charger. As mentioned, Tesla is also looking at faster. It's all moving forward at an incredible pace. 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

120kW charger will be able to charge 20% to 80% in 1 hour. 

 

BUT! What most people don't realise is that current Tesla supercharger is paired in 2's. If both are charging, you get just over half of the maximum rate. Usually how it works is that the late comer will get something like 40kW until the other one slows down after 80%. It's more of a problem now with more Tesla's about. Luckily there's always superchargers popping up, Tesla must have data analysis on usage patterns and ownership map.

 

CCS standard is looking at 350kW standard rapid charger. As mentioned, Tesla is also looking at faster. It's all moving forward at an incredible pace. 

 

 

Your maths is out.....a 120kW (per hr) charger can only charge a flat 200kW battery to 60% full capacity in 1hr......

 

& yes I had mentioned several pages back that if you plug a Tesla car into every charge point at their station you won't get the max capacity because of the way the electrical max load is calculated, again something I mentioned when talking about the cable down your street not coping with every home having a 7kW charger..& the way the electric board do the max load calcs..ie everyone down the street & you can't pull 100A at the same time.....in fact its way less.....go re-read my posts...

 

As the battery backs get bigger, the size of the charger has to increase or the waiting time gets longer...& those EHV that joe public is being asked to handle...used to be just the domain of commercial industrial electricians with the appropriate certs...

 

I foresee more "accidents" with EHV chargers & cars on fire...

^^^

You will not be alone then Insurance Companies will have made their predictions and used Uri Geller, Derren Brown and others with the 2nd sight as advisers.

Maybe there is a position currently available for a 'Highland Seer' or there will be in the near future, not sure maybe you know.

 

I wonder how many Insurance Underwriters or Lloyd's Names have an EV or a Tesla or have one on order.

 

EDIT.

Done my annual risk assessment and electrical appliance checks and have my Greenhouse heater back in my daily driver 

for a cozy bum & no frozen windows inside as the temp will stay 2*0C above freezing when parked up.

(Outdoor extension carried for away days.)

Edited 24 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

1 hour ago, fabdavrav said:

Your maths is out.....a 120kW (per hr) charger can only charge a flat 200kW battery to 60% full capacity in 1hr......

 

& yes I had mentioned several pages back that if you plug a Tesla car into every charge point at their station you won't get the max capacity because of the way the electrical max load is calculated, again something I mentioned when talking about the cable down your street not coping with every home having a 7kW charger..& the way the electric board do the max load calcs..ie everyone down the street & you can't pull 100A at the same time.....in fact its way less.....go re-read my posts...

 

As the battery backs get bigger, the size of the charger has to increase or the waiting time gets longer

 

0 to 60% is the same as 20 to 80%. My maths is correct. But I must question if you actually drive your ICE car to completely bone dry empty? as you keep assuming people do the same with EV's.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger

The Supercharger pair can deliver 145kW. When all supercharger stalls are occupied (for example 12 stalls in South mimms), the site can deliver 870kW. The electric board limitation you speak of does not apply here because the site is designed to charge EV's.

There's also 50 stall chargers popping up: https://electrek.co/2017/11/16/tesla-giant-50-supercharger-station-china/

 

Current 50kW CHADEMO or CCS type rapid chargers can deliver 25kW in 30min. That would be 62% of a 40kW EV. The new Nissan Leaf 2018 has 40kWh, EPA rate at 150 miles range (realistic range, unlike the European NEDC figure). So allowing 90 miles 1.5 hour between 30min rest stop. I'd say the  current 50kW chargers is just about adequate for sub-60kWh EV.

 

Current limitation is not the charger, it's the battery. My Leaf 24 for example, only recovered about 12kWh charging from 40% to 90%, but it still took half hour on CHADEMO rapid charger. Half the rate the charger is capable of (granted, over 80% the speed slow, but still.....).   The bigger the battery, the faster it can charge, this is why battery is the new frontier.

@wyx087 - "Petrol stations" are much more common than public chargers, particularly in Scotland.

 

Also, since you ask, my car has a 50l tank, and I normally run it down to about 4l before refilling. This means I spend about 10 minutes refilling once a month.

 

My neighbour had a Leaf, and put it on a granny charger for several hours every 2 or 3 days. So much so that she felt she had to apologise to me for leaving it parked part outside my house so often.

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

0 to 60% is the same as 20 to 80%. My maths is correct. But I must question if you actually drive your ICE car to completely bone dry empty? as you keep assuming people do the same with EV's.

 

 

Just the way you word it makes it appear your are getting an 80% charge.....you aren't you are getting a maximum top up of 60% in 1hr...

 

 

& my ICE car I run down so the needle shows halfway between empty & 1/4 full...so 1/8 capacity (12.5%) then spend 10 mins max filling it always to 100%....so thats 12.5% to 100% which on the 120kW (which is what Tesla states) supercharger to charge the 200kW battery .........basically 12.5% (25kW) to 100% (200kW) = 175kW required charge @ 120kW/hr (2kW/min) = 87.5mins (1hr/27mins/30secs)

 

Now here I live the nearest superchargers are Aviemore...thats fine if I'm going there, but I do winter ski mountaineering so can easy travel 80 miles to a remote place, park car go off & ski/climb & come back, car frozen, sub zero temps, heated front & rear windscreens on, heated seats on, full lights on, etc. & do another 80 miles home....so basically the car needs to do 160miles plus all the loading & sub zero temps.....not 15C + & part/no loading when range figures are usually calculated.

 

So I'd have to make sure my car with 200kW battery was fully charged at home using a 7kW/hr charger to 100%....

 

 

So spending 10 mins every couple of weeks to fill the car up will turn into spending hrs every day topping it up at home.... & wondering if the car has the latest update to stop the distribution board or the charger having a short thus setting the car on fire...

 

That's not forward progression that's backward regression...

 

 

Plus here's a really good one...the ski resorts up here (Cairngorm, Nevis, Lecht, Glenshee, Glencoe)....end of day you have 200 plus cars (seen 600 plus at Cairngorm) all leaving in sub zero temps, sun going down, all people going home, some traveling 200miles (people do long day trips)....how you going to have enough EV charge points at the ski resorts or within a 40 mile radius of it????

 

You state:- """The new Nissan Leaf 2018 has 40kWh, EPA rate at 150 miles range""" ......that wouldn't get me to Glenshee & back (as trip is over 150miles) in summer let alone in Winter with electric loading & lower battery killing temps & there are NO charging points along the way either ......TOW TRUCK......

 

Electric cars nice idea but so far fails in reality, needs to try harder....

Those places that are not suitable for taking an EV and getting a charge will be where people do not take an EV.

That will be why schemes are coming in where you rent a vehicle, and if you need another one you drop it off and collect another suitable one.

Park & Ride type hubs at Perth, Aviemore, Inverness, Fort William, Oban, Stirling , Aberdeen type locations should work, where there are car dealerships or Car / Van hire places, 

or ones planned.

http://greenerscotland.org/greener-travel/greener-driving/charge-point-map 

 

Where there is a will there will be a way, 

Or is that where there is a Arnold Clark / Harry Fairbairn, Parks of Hamilton, Henrys, Western, John Clark etc etc

Edited 24 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

11 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

Those places that are not suitable for taking an EV and getting a charge will be where people do not take an EV.

That will be why schemes are coming in where you rent a vehicle, and if you need another one you drop it off and collect another suitable one.

Park & Ride type hubs at Perth, Aviemore, Inverness, Fort William, Oban, Stirling , Aberdeen type locations should work, where there are car dealerships or Car / Van hire places, 

or ones planned.

http://greenerscotland.org/greener-travel/greener-driving/charge-point-map 

 

Where there is a will there will be a way, 

Or is that where there is a Arnold Clark / Harry Fairbairn, Parks of Hamilton, Henrys, Western, John Clark etc etc

 

So basically the EV is useless for my needs (which I know but they are being forced upon us) & therefore I will have to drive to a hire place & hire a more suitable car...??WTF??

 

So more time & money wasted......compared to now where I just throw my kit in the back of my ICE car & drive off.....

 

 

backwards here we come....

Edited 24 November, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

Yes useless for you needs, no point in getting one. Long story short.    Are you going to be sad about that?

 

You would not need to Hire.

The Lease cars can be changed for another lease car, part,full day, week, or more.

As BMW do already in some areas, Car or Motorbike or even electric motorbike, or even a commercial van.  

Its not rocket science.

 

Drive in, remove your personal equipment, leave the vehicle collect another, you can return and collect the same one.

Or a Arnold Clark scheme might be drop off at any centre collect and other vehicle, they are just transport not personal property.

(As people do at Edinburgh, Glasgow, Perth,Inverness etc when collecting a Camper Van or Motor Home, or sometimes as they fly in they go and collect them.)

 

People have trialed schemes and these will come into being more commonly as the demand is there.

There are used cars and cars on auction sites all around the country and the used market will need to change as Diesels become less in demand and then petrols as they come nearer being banned.

Edited 24 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

9 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

Yes useless for you needs, no point in getting one. Long story short.    Are you going to be sad about that?

 

You would not need to Hire.

The Lease cars can be changed for another lease car, part,full day, week, or more.

As BMW do already in some areas, Car or Motorbike or even electric motorbike, or even a commercial van.  

Its not rocket science.

 

Drive in, remove your personal equipment, leave the vehicle collect another, you can return and collect the same one.

Or a Arnold Clark scheme might be drop off at any centre collect and other vehicle, they are just transport not personal property.

 

Just that fact that this is being forced on me with the "we aren't selling new ICE cars after this date"......from the Gov...

 

As for having then hire a car...why do I won't to hire a beaten up dog /kids smelly car that has had god knows what may not have winter tyres on in (I don't think they fit to UK hire cars) it that I will have to arrange the day before I want to do a ski trip???....

 

basically I have the freedom to decide on a whim at 6pm one evening to go skiing the next day......won't be able to that under the new way then...so much for progress & personal choice...

^^^ You are sorted then, if you do not want Interest free loans and tax breaks and a EV is no use do not bother.

Be a rebel with a cause.

 

How active are you going to be in 20 years anyway?.  You might be in a battery powered  mobility scooter, 

or just a wheel chair human powered.

 

 

http://inverness-campervans.co.uk 

Edited 24 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

The government will definitely not go through with anything short term on this. Massive vote loser.

Edited 24 November, 20178 yr by Wino