57 minutes ago, skomaz said:

And your comment re a hotel and a 5 minute walk is equally daft - things like google earth allow you to check the claims and make your own assessment and research!

IF you're able to get online - I have two elderly relatives (both of whom live over 200 miles from me) who have NO internet & NO computer experience so they have to rely on what they are told and can read in brochures. Just because information is available online doesn't mean everyone can access it...

As an EV driver, I have to say the NEDC figure is totally useless. What you want is American's EPA range, it is very accurate in my experience.

 

@Gizmo Nice one for ordering the Leaf. It makes a lot of sense and you'll find you are saving a lot of money my going EV.

 

For your 500 miles trip, do research on charge points and you need to have plan B. The public charging infrastructure is very lacking.

3 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 

@Gizmo Nice one for ordering the Leaf. It makes a lot of sense and you'll find you are saving a lot of money my going EV.

 

For your 500 miles trip, do research on charge points and you need to have plan B. The public charging infrastructure is very lacking.

 

This is actually going to cost ME more money... I pay the electricity bill and SWMBO has no intention of contributing to it when her Leaf arrives 

5 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

This is actually going to cost ME more money... I pay the electricity bill and SWMBO has no intention of contributing to it when her Leaf arrives 

 

At least it is only 5% VAT on electricity compared to the 20% VAT on diesel/petrol !

 

Worth looking at Economy 7/10 and free weekend period for electricity ? 

 

Cost per mile for lecky seems to generally about half of that for hydrocarbon on the right deals.  

 

Also I think work site have been given permission not to look to record and report lecky used charging at work as BIK.  

Edited 30 June, 20187 yr by lol-lol

50 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Worth looking at Economy 7/10 and free weekend period for electricity ? 

 

At the moment I’m struggling to find anyone who can beat my current supplier (including E7 /10) 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

At the moment I’m struggling to find anyone who can beat my current supplier (including E7 /10) 

 

 

 

Indeed.  I am not with a big six company any more. Coop for me and the seem to have good prices but are not so keen to talk about smart meters etc!

Autocar and others need to ask VW, 'why is the range of your electric vehicles or even the hybrids so crap?' 

No wonder they need to be involved with the biggest battery plants in the world, they need to make bigger batteries and fit them in trailers so the VW EV's can tow them behind'.

 

Re seats with no support in the What Car video i posted.

Skinny / slim car reviewers need to understand while they roll around unsupported, fat barstewards like me find them tight and uncomfortable.

More seat bolster width adjustability would be 'Vorsprung Durch Technik'.  

4 hours ago, SWBoy said:

IF you're able to get online - I have two elderly relatives (both of whom live over 200 miles from me) who have NO internet & NO computer experience so they have to rely on what they are told and can read in brochures. Just because information is available online doesn't mean everyone can access it...

 

Indeed - and we have the same but we help them to figure things out and they have the wit to check themselves via other non-online means - such as Travel Agents records and experience and brochures from different companies with the same hotels and location etc.

You are having a giraffe.

3 minutes ago, Offski said:

You are having a giraffe.

 

nope - they phone us we do the research and phone them back - or they speak to their local travel agent they've been dealing with for about 25 years...   life without the internet is possible and you don't have to fall foul of it if you have your head screwed on right...

Edited 30 June, 20187 yr by skomaz

Obvious life without the internet is possible, millions have no internet. 

Millions book trips and holidays from adverts and brochures, as do car buyers and others,  no 'Which' subscription either.

Senior citizens as well, all those decades of common sense and trust in companies that are household names.

On 6/30/2018 at 17:44, lol-lol said:

Cost per mile for lecky seems to generally about half of that for hydrocarbon

Only because the Government doesn't impose fuel duty on electricity used in road vehicles ATM.

5 min charge  -  150kms

https://www.afr.com/business/energy/tritium-bids-to-solve-the-biggest-problem-for-electric-cars-20180702-h124rt

Why is everyone discussing small e-cars like the Leaf when the most popular are now small, medium and large SUVs? KenO'Neil is right when the government realise the loss of tax revenue costs will go up.

My laptop computer has a Lithium Ion battery the same as most e-cars. It only has a life of 2 to 3 years and during that time the amount of charge it can take drops to about half, or its ability to release a full charge drops. 

We need better batteries (still in research), so they will be slow to market.

Why are electric cars more expensive than the combustion engine equivalent even with Gov subsidies? Electric motors cheaper, electronics no difference, body no difference, so it must be the batteries.

15 minutes ago, Odin1123 said:

Why is everyone discussing small e-cars like the Leaf when the most popular are now small, medium and large SUVs? KenO'Neil is right when the government realise the loss of tax revenue costs will go up.

My laptop computer has a Lithium Ion battery the same as most e-cars. It only has a life of 2 to 3 years and during that time the amount of charge it can take drops to about half, or its ability to release a full charge drops. 

We need better batteries (still in research), so they will be slow to market.

Why are electric cars more expensive than the combustion engine equivalent even with Gov subsidies? Electric motors cheaper, electronics no difference, body no difference, so it must be the batteries.

Have patience.

 

18 hours ago, Odin1123 said:

My laptop computer has a Lithium Ion battery the same as most e-cars. It only has a life of 2 to 3 years and during that time the amount of charge it can take drops to about half, or its ability to release a full charge drops. 

We need better batteries (still in research), so they will be slow to market.

Why are electric cars more expensive than the combustion engine equivalent even with Gov subsidies? Electric motors cheaper, electronics no difference, body no difference, so it must be the batteries.

Laptop battery is vastly different to the ones in EV's. On top of that, the usage pattern is also different: the battery management system (BMS) wouldn't keep topping up your EV battery after it is fully charged; the battery will not be kept at fully charged while next to very hot components. 

Li-on battery degrade fastest when at both high voltage (fully charged) and high temperature.

 

But even though the cars may seem slightly expensive at the moment, the day to day running is actually a lot cheaper and better. Fuel cost is 1/3 of an efficient diesel. The maintenance cost is lower. Plus less time spent refuelling (5s plug in/unplug every day VS 10min at petrol station every other week). Don't forget the cabin serenity when nudging forward in stressful traffic, it makes the car feel a class above its price tag.

 

For small SUV, there's the Kona EV (£30k). For mid-size SUV, there's the Niro (price TBD). For more luxury mid-size SUV, there's the i-Pace (£60k). For big luxury SUV, there's Model X (£75k). 

Let's not forget the EV's are similar to highest trims, most comes with keyless entry, upgraded infotainment and ACC as standard, luxury ones have adaptive dampers as standard. In comparison, Kona with similar spec costs £25k. Niro costs £27k. F-Pace with similar spec costs £55k.

 

Globally available SUV'sh type Crossover type vehicle was the Kia Soul.

Yeti size type.

 

Tall flat fronted vehicles with loads of extra gubbins are obviously not the most efficient at requiring less go juice / energy to drive on roads, 

but then some want space, and easy in and easy out and not always that much range from home.

 

Roll on more MPV's  & Smaller MPV's / SUV's (AWD) with Electric Motors & simplicity and lower cost of purchase / leasing.

Some without crap sills trims that hit your shins as you get in and out,  ie Kia / Hyundai.

 

More estate cars as well.

Edited 3 July, 20187 yr by Offski

https://www.forbes.com/sites/enriquedans/2018/07/03/electric-vehicles-and-disinformation/#104ff30231e5

 

Two serious media outlets such as The Guardian or CNBC write about the oil and automotive industries’ increasingly crude attempts to spread misinformation about electric vehicles in a bid to protect a business model increasingly recognized each day as harmful to the planet and to each and everyone of us.

Lies along the lines that electric vehicles are bigger pollutants than conventional vehicles, which has been disproven time and again, especially given that more and more states and countries are generating their electricity from sustainable sources. Even when electricity is produced from fossil fuels, reducing emissions to zero through the use of electric cars is still means a major reduction in air pollution in our cities.

Another lie is that transportation is not the issue, and that the real causes of pollution are heating or industrial emissions. Wrong. Cars and trucks account for more than a third of polluting emissions, a good part of which happens precisely in the places where we live and work, so any reduction is likely to have a positive effect on our quality of life.

Then there are the claims that electric vehicles are too expensive or don’t have sufficient range: a lie once again refuted by the growing autonomy of electric vehicles, which is already approaching or even surpassing that of their fossil fuel counterparts. Mercedes says its next electric vehicle will have a range of 500km, and some Teslas, like the next Roadster, are expected to have around 1,000km. Even though these examples are not precisely cars for regular people, you can see the trend. With the progressive increase in the density of batteries, these figures can only evolve one way: upwards.

Batteries are also the targets of misinformation campaigns: some of my readers say batteries rely on supposedly scarce mineral sources and can’t be recycled. First of all, batteries can be recycled, their elements are perfectly reusable, and also, contrary to what many think, batteries do not degrade with use or over time. Rigorous scientific studies show battery degradation of around 1% every 30,000km, making them much more efficient than their internal combustion rivals. In many cases, this lie has led leasing or renting companies to offer bad deals (based on a supposed residual zero value at the end of the contract) to people interested in electric vehicles, thus discouraging sales. As more batteries are produced, the technology is improving and prices falling, while other technologies, such as solid state batteries, offer even more potential.

Then there are the fearmongers spreading lies about our inability to generate enough electricity to charge all those electric cars. Another LIE, fortunately already refuted by no less than the UK’s association of energy providers, which says its members will be more than able to meet the demand of arrival of several million electric vehicles in the coming years.

Maintenance? internal combustion engines are cuckoo clocks with more than ten thousand moving parts that must be permanently lubricated and periodically replaced. As any car owner knows, replacing spare parts is extremely. A typical electric vehicle has around eighteen moving parts, with very low degradation and drastically lower maintenance needs.

We need to move forward quickly and efficiently to using electric vehicles, bypassing hybrids completely, which are inefficient and are meant only to extend the life of the internal combustion engine, which is already an out-of-date technology, part of the problem, not the solution and that need to be banned sooner rather than later, for everybody’s sake. Anybody considering buying a car should forget diesel, gasoline or hybrids. Go electric, now.

So let’s stop peddling the same old lies, please. In some countries, such as Spain, the motor industry is still using trotting out arguments based on its fictional “technological neutrality” that are anything but neutral, and are essentially designed for an extremely lengthy transition period to protect a traditional industry that has already exceeded all limits of ethics and corporate social responsibility, with senior managers in jail for criminal practices.

Let’s have a discussion about the future of transportation, by all means: and let’s do so based on the facts, not rumors, half-truths and outright lies.

 

Enrique Dans is Professor of Innovation at IE Business School

 

^^^^^^ rather than go down the Trump fake news route perhaps.

There is no doubt that electric vehicles are the way forward, for the UK, but the questions of reliability, range, driveabilty and safety have not all been answered. I automatically assume that advocates of either system will lie whether accidently or intentionally. The automotive industry has an excellent record for spouting bull****. Places like Australia with no large electrical infrastructure may prefer the Hydrogen power route. Of course they would have to change their method of production to electrolyisis from their current chemical process to reduce pollution.

We’ve barely started but you can drive from Melbourne to Sydney and then coastal to Cairns ~ 3000 kms all electric.   But off the major inland highways you would expect hydrogen to be needed.    Plenty of solar energy to make it.

On 02/07/2018 at 22:40, Odin1123 said:

Why is everyone discussing small e-cars like the Leaf when the most popular are now small, medium and large SUVs? KenO'Neil is right when the government realise the loss of tax revenue costs will go up.

My laptop computer has a Lithium Ion battery the same as most e-cars. It only has a life of 2 to 3 years and during that time the amount of charge it can take drops to about half, or its ability to release a full charge drops. 

We need better batteries (still in research), so they will be slow to market.

Why are electric cars more expensive than the combustion engine equivalent even with Gov subsidies? Electric motors cheaper, electronics no difference, body no difference, so it must be the batteries.

So they say -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117536_2019-is-the-year-of-the-electric-suv

https://electrek.co/2018/07/04/audi-unveils-e-tron-quattro-electric-suv-interior/

While that guy is blatantly a bit of a muppet, everyone takes range or mpg quotes with a pinch of salt, he is right to be peeved about not being able to do multiple fast charges. If I wanted to do a 3 leg journey I'd be gutted to have to wait around for hours for the second charge!