Fast charging Leaf for 2019 with thermal management -

https://electrek.co/2018/07/06/nissan-leaf-prototype-new-battery-pack-leaked-fast-charging/

8 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Fast charging Leaf for 2019 with thermal management -

https://electrek.co/2018/07/06/nissan-leaf-prototype-new-battery-pack-leaked-fast-charging/

 

Very good news.  

 

Will make the LEAF 2 a very practical car for millions in the UK, Europe and the World.

 

Hopefully not too much to the cost.  Constantly reducing battery costs ie $/kWh but more costly tech with the liquid cooling etc.  

 

2019 could be the inflection point for EVs compared to ICEs.  

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

2019 could be the inflection point for EVs compared to ICEs.  

Time will tell...

1 hour ago, SWBoy said:

Time will tell...

 

Signs, ie the technology now forthcoming, are good.

 

Whether the EV grant needs bumping up a bit more to get the take up a bit more or what ie reduce VAT on proper EVs to 5% down from 20% (EV grant barely covers the VAT ).

 

With BREXIT our chance in the UK to reduce import customs duty from 10% to maybe zero or just a couple of percent.    

 

I would imagine that there will ultimately be a confluence between full autonomy (if it happens at all) and EVs.

6 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

I would imagine that there will ultimately be a confluence between full autonomy (if it happens at all) and EVs.

 

After watch fast and furious 8, and the various incidents, I am staying away from autonomous cars !

45 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Signs, ie the technology now forthcoming, are good.

Good technology is only part of the story - are you old enough to remember how VHS beat Betamax even though Betamax was by far the better technology?

 

Good products that meet the consumer need and honest marketing (is there such a thing?) are also needed.

16 minutes ago, SWBoy said:

Good technology is only part of the story - are you old enough to remember how VHS beat Betamax even though Betamax was by far the better technology?

 

Good products that meet the consumer need and honest marketing (is there such a thing?) are also needed.

 

Sadly I do remember Betamax, and how big were CDs going to be ie 12 cm or bigger.

 

Marketing disgiushes short coming ie go and buy a diesel as it does 60 mpg  (but only after several miles of being warmed up, and as long as you do not need to stop and go very much, and the ambient temperature is close to normal ambient range, and drive where pollution is not a problem etc etc. 

 

Because diesel cost more and there was  this "evidence" that they were more efficent and "clean" the salesmen pushed these points and hence we are in the mess we are with pollution and many struggling to get three quarters of the advertised fuel consumption figures!   Not problems with EVs though range is/has been, much of which as many driver do not know how to drive economically sadly.    

Oh dear, I remember 78s and crystal radios.

50 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Oh dear, I remember 78s and crystal radios.

 

Oh, scratching records with an unsteady hand, something cds supposedly fixed.  

Bikes and cars could do 50 and even 80 mpg.  Lethal in an accident mind you.

Now we can run our cars in sunshine, really progress.

 

& what goes around comes around, and people will still want KISS and involvement.   Even something they own and is not for 'short time mister'.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38487837 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44121657 

 

Edited 7 July, 20187 yr by Offski

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Marketing disgiushes short coming ie go and buy a diesel as it does 60 mpg  (but only after several miles of being warmed up, and as long as you do not need to stop and go very much, and the ambient temperature is close to normal ambient range, and drive where pollution is not a problem etc etc. 

 

Because diesel cost more and there was  this "evidence" that they were more efficent and "clean" the salesmen pushed these points and hence we are in the mess we are with pollution and many struggling to get three quarters of the advertised fuel consumption figures!   Not problems with EVs though range is/has been, much of which as many driver do not know how to drive economically sadly.    

Diesel engines are more efficient than petrol engines and that is a fact. 

Whether you drive a diesel, petrol or an EV driving for economy is the choice of the driver. The difference with an internal combustion engine vehicle and an EV is if you is drive it like you stole it you have to stop for fuel sooner, with the EV you have to find some where to charge it and wait longer.

5 hours ago, moley said:

Diesel engines are more efficient than petrol engines and that is a fact. 

Whether you drive a diesel, petrol or an EV driving for economy is the choice of the driver. The difference with an internal combustion engine vehicle and an EV is if you is drive it like you stole it you have to stop for fuel sooner, with the EV you have to find some where to charge it and wait longer.

 

When put in a car are they worth all their downsides and that is what cities, countries and the WTO have decided on.

 

If one compares the two Octy 150 hp DSG models, for example, for mpg and other figures is it worth the higher NOX and PMs.  59 mpg for the petrol, 64 mpg for the diesel.  With diesel fuel more expensive the difference is negligible in running cost for fuel.  The diesel is slower accelerating, despite being the same horsepower, and cost more to service as the wet gearbox has service cost the dry one does not.

 

With the next generation of EVs arriving next year ie 60-100 kWh batteries, charging at more than twice the rate and 200 hp on instant tap ie 0-60 in 7 seconds and less, perceptions will naturally change.  

You can put 7 full size adults in a SEAT Alhambra 150ps TDI SCR DSG & get over 50 mpg at NSL's & go over 600 miles before filling up,

which 150ps TSI can you do that with, 

or EV for that matter without 3 stops to charge up ?

 

Suitable as City / Town local run Taxis / Light Commercials where there are plenty fast chargers.

(600 kg of passengers in might be a good test...)

 

Edited 7 July, 20187 yr by Offski

33 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

When put in a car are they worth all their downsides and that is what cities, countries and the WTO have decided on.

 

If one compares the two Octy 150 hp DSG models, for example, for mpg and other figures is it worth the higher NOX and PMs.  59 mpg for the petrol, 64 mpg for the diesel.  With diesel fuel more expensive the difference is negligible in running cost for fuel.  The diesel is slower accelerating, despite being the same horsepower, and cost more to service as the wet gearbox has service cost the dry one does not.

 

With the next generation of EVs arriving next year ie 60-100 kWh batteries, charging at more than twice the rate and 200 hp on instant tap ie 0-60 in 7 seconds and less, perceptions will naturally change.  

During your time as a diesel engineer you would know that size for size a diesel engine is on average 20% more efficient than an equivalent petrol engine. 

The diesel has too many real world liabilities (having paid a premium) associated with meeting RWE standards, and all of the solutions end up blowing up the theoretical (now marginal) savings.

Our C4P 1.6 turbo petrol burning a 10% ethanol mix (denigrated out here as crap fuel) is averaging substantially lower fuel consumption than my old Yeti 2.0 TDI but doesn’t have the liabilities of SCR, ERG cooler valve or DPF to worry about.

Either way, an engine is a complex item consisting of thousands of production items needing to be assembled.  Once mass production of EVs ramps up unit costs will slide and that’s when management (shareholders) will see little reward for R&D in ICE production.  There will be much resistance from old world dealers simply due to there reduced servicing profits which (out here at least) keeps them from going broke.

Refinement continues but for how much longer -

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1117576_fca-has-developed-a-new-aluminum-alloy-for-turbocharged-engines-to-better-withstand-heat

 

However the alternative remains -

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1117600_toyota-supports-hydrogen-powered-autonomous-boat

6 hours ago, moley said:

During your time as a diesel engineer you would know that size for size a diesel engine is on average 20% more efficient than an equivalent petrol engine. 

 

The gap has been coming down as petrol cars have run higher and higher compression ratios ie despite being turbocharged my 1.4 TSI is running 10.5 CR and some petrol engines are running up to 14, almost diesel like.  Slow speed diesels are most efficient, high speed diesel ie the ones in cars, much less so.    

 

Add to this the diesel versions of cars usually weigh 50, 60, 70 kgs more than the petrol ones, ie it is like car a extra person in the car all the time, and when accelerating the heavier crank and associated bits have to be spun up to speed and hence, even for the same brake horsepower, diesel are nearly always slower accelerating ie about 4%, the diesel's previous advantage of flatter power delivery has also been mitigated by new direct injection turbo petrol engined cars.

 

Both diesel and petrol loss out to electric powered vehicles which can deliver peak torque from "tickover" rather than the upper part of the rev range as with ICE vehicles, hence EV's smoke ICE. Easier to make 4 wheel drive also of course without such efficiency and weight penalties.     

Audi went Endurance racing, & VW Group put all their eggs in one basket building engine plants in Hungary & South America to build Diesel Hybrids & also with Diesels with electric superchargers.

All went tits up the diesel is the greatest new green thing and now those plants are to build EV's once VW Group manage to by the technology from others.

Vorsprung Durch Technik, Kidology,  'There is no range on electricity, just kidding people they are buying / leasing / investing in green vehicles,

they should have just been thinking before committing billions on how they were cheating the diesel engine managements for a decade....

(They are still trying to spin that diesel is the future & relevant, maybe because Qatar has such a big investment in VW Group.)

Now they are big on how fast EV's can be in Motorsport while they can not get a 5 seater passenger car to go 400 miles between charges, 

yet over a decade ago they had a low light electric vehicle breaking records, or looking like it could.

 

 

 

Edited 8 July, 20187 yr by Offski

They should have done what they said they would and maybe there would be millions of these bikes being used around the world with VW on them, 

and they would be further on with Battery technology and plants built, lighter passenger cars and vans and not as they are still spinning about what they will do sometime maybe.

They could have had electric Ducati's as well. 

 

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

The gap has been coming down as petrol cars have run higher and higher compression ratios ie despite being turbocharged my 1.4 TSI is running 10.5 CR and some petrol engines are running up to 14, almost diesel like.  Slow speed diesels are most efficient, high speed diesel ie the ones in cars, much less so.    

Yet to see any petrol engine trucks these days. My father used to drive petrol lorries after the war and said they were gutless and said that all changed when diesels arrived. One of his Commer lorries with a Perkins diesel engine covered in excess of 450,000 miles.

What mpg are you getting from your 1.4 tsi?

 

1 hour ago, moley said:

Yet to see any petrol engine trucks these days. My father used to drive petrol lorries after the war and said they were gutless and said that all changed when diesels arrived. One of his Commer lorries with a Perkins diesel engine covered in excess of 450,000 miles.

What mpg are you getting from your 1.4 tsi?

 

.

There are starting to be plenty of turbo-petrol vans as to the big trucks they will be diesel for a good while, as long as they have SCR Ad Blu type systems we will have to put up with until lecky takes over that sector too.

 

Long term is showing 57 mpg ie done 4k miles in 4 weeks but that does include a few playful blasts in to the 3 figures and some full power up hill sessions that do not help the a good figure.

I think the odometer/speedo over read by about 4% and I am getting well over 600 miles between fills so I reckon it is close to a real 55 mpg. 

9 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Long term is showing 57 mpg ie done 4k miles in 4 weeks but that does include a few playful blasts in to the 3 figures and some full power up hill sessions that do not help the a good figure.

I think the odometer/speedo over read by about 4% and I am getting well over 600 miles between fills so I reckon it is close to a real 55 mpg. 

That's interesting, because when I looked on the 'Honest John' website it showed the 1.4 tsi DSG returning an average of 47.7 mpg. I get between 55-60 mpg from the 1.6 diesel DSG Octavia and 'Honest John' is showing an average of 56.5 mpg, which sounds about right. The wife's 1.2 tsi Fabia combi returns mid 50's on a run and high 40's around town, 'Honest John' is showing an average of 48.3, which also sounds about right. 47-50 mpg from the 1.4 tsi is what I would expect. 

Sometime in the next 7 weeks VW, Audi, Skoda & SEAT are going to have to publish the WLTP figures for the vehicles so cars and small vans that they will be selling from September.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/wltp 

 

Then we can see what they have for petrol's, diesels. hybrids and EV's.   The Comparisons can be made, and also with the other manufacturers vehicles that will be on sale.

Edited 8 July, 20187 yr by Offski

21 minutes ago, moley said:

That's interesting, because when I looked on the 'Honest John' website it showed the 1.4 tsi DSG returning an average of 47.7 mpg. I get between 55-60 mpg from the 1.6 diesel DSG Octavia and 'Honest John' is showing an average of 56.5 mpg, which sounds about right. The wife's 1.2 tsi Fabia combi returns mid 50's on a run and high 40's around town, 'Honest John' is showing an average of 48.3, which also sounds about right. 47-50 mpg from the 1.4 tsi is what I would expect. 

 

Probably I get much better mpg due to several factors.

 

1. My average journeys tend to be long ones ie 100 to 200 miles (though sometimes in horrible SE England traffic on the negative side)
2. If I have a city journey I tend to use the Spark ie 1 litre Naturally Aspirated engine
3. I drive thinking as far ahead a I can, as trained by the police during my one of previous employers 

So my local car will be the first to go EV, hopefully next year getting one of the new crop of 60 kWh EVs then the main car going to EV in 2022 when 80 to 100 kWh batteries are common place. 

I like to see the servicing schedule for an EV to see how the dealership justifies the maintenance of its service division profit margins.  A painfully long list of “check” s and “inspect” s I imagine......not a lot of oil and filters or brake pads.