23 hours ago, Offski said:

I am at a Skoda. / SEAT dealership right now handing back a car and ordering a new one. No Skoda, SEAT or VW EV,s available now, or even a date for ones being available. Not even a light hybrid. So a SEAT Ateca diesel DSG it will be because the Karoq or Kodiaq are just too shiny black plastic inside and all style over practicality.   VW speak lots on 'green' but just fail to even get near producing the product. 

Just KISS!

 

Well the value brands of VAG world did not get the GTE versions which are a joke anyways in terms of being an EV or decent hybrid so one if left with going for a nice and simple diesel or petrol.

 

Many users are going fro petrol fearing the 45 UK city restrictions for anything but the very cleanest of internal combustion engines, particularly avoiding diesel which look like they may have to be the very best of EURO6 emissions.

 

If one does not need to go in to those 45 UK Cities, which I presume will include Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen (?), very frequently and therefore the tenner hit or force to park in a park-and-ride out of town area then diesels still have a few years to run and especially for use in the country areas. 

 

The Kona will be the first of a batch of 60-64 kWh cars launched in the next few months......

 

     

Just wondering how the cities that ban diesels are going to manage when they need an ambulance or fire engine. 

That ban on passenger cars, maybe Taxi / Mini- Cabs might include Party bus Ambulances & Fire Appliances,

but not Emergency Services vehicles.   

 

Fires are quite polluting really.

  Eg Todays big one,  and Glasgow's recent one.

 

 

Edited 27 June, 20187 yr by Offski

JLR chose battery over diesel -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117423_jlr-to-pump-money-into-electric-cars-instead-of-diesel

7 hours ago, moley said:

Just wondering how the cities that ban diesels are going to manage when they need an ambulance or fire engine. 

Ones like these perhaps -

https://electrek.co/2018/06/27/renault-trucks-new-generation-electric-trucks/

ZF wants to jump on the band wagon -

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180627/ANE/180629815/zf-forms-joint-venture-for-push-into-growing-electric-van-market?cciid=email-ane-daily

 

BP wants in too -

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180628/ANE/180629778/bp-will-buy-uk-charging-company-chargemaster?cciid=email-ane-daily

On 6/27/2018 at 22:19, Ryeman said:

JLR chose battery over diesel -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117423_jlr-to-pump-money-into-electric-cars-instead-of-diesel

The source of electricity must also be considered when talking about battery cars. If the source is from coal fired power stations then the pollution is likely to be greater than using internal combustion engines. If from Nuclear power then no pollution until the power station is decommisioned and then the area is unusable for at least 100 years. Lithium batteries can catch fire if punctured in an accident and are a safety hazard. They do not have a long life and replacement costs are high. New battery technology is on the way but not yet available. While electric traction imay be the way forward jumping there too soon may lead to more problems.

The bulls**t continues.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44575399

Electric car buyers claim they were misled by Nissan

His marketing brochure claimed the car could do 235 miles on a single charge.

But having bought the car, he found the range was actually 155 miles

So we have, in my mind, been misled twice, because the claimed range on a full charge is not 235 miles. Secondly, nowhere does it say that you will only be able to rapid charge in 40 minutes only once."

22 minutes ago, moley said:

The bulls**t continues.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44575399

Electric car buyers claim they were misled by Nissan

His marketing brochure claimed the car could do 235 miles on a single charge.

But having bought the car, he found the range was actually 155 miles

So we have, in my mind, been misled twice, because the claimed range on a full charge is not 235 miles. Secondly, nowhere does it say that you will only be able to rapid charge in 40 minutes only once."

And further on in the article it says that What Car! could only achieve 168 miles.

Maybe he didn’t use regen braking.........for some reason some don’t drive as a one pedal car.

1 hour ago, moley said:

The bulls**t continues.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44575399

Electric car buyers claim they were misled by Nissan

His marketing brochure claimed the car could do 235 miles on a single charge.

But having bought the car, he found the range was actually 155 miles

So we have, in my mind, been misled twice, because the claimed range on a full charge is not 235 miles. Secondly, nowhere does it say that you will only be able to rapid charge in 40 minutes only once."

 

And further on in the article it says that What Car! could only achieve 168 miles.

 

 

The 235 miles is the NEDC figure... nothing to do with Nissan and is always VERY optimistic (basically rolling road figures with no drag and no comfort items turned on)

 

Manufacturers are finally using WLTP figures which is achievable by normal driving 168 miles - WTLP for the Leaf)

 

We are replacing the Yeti with a Leaf because VAG do not produce a pure BEV yet (you cannot actually order an E-Golf) and SWMBO only does around 120 per week.

 

We have since found out that her work has an EV charger already and they have reserved the parking purely for her (until other members of staff get an EV)  

Edited 30 June, 20187 yr by Gizmo

Kona UK pricing.........

 

https://uk.motor1.com/news/250695/2018-hyundai-kona-ev-pricing/

Hyundai announces UK pricing and specs for new Kona ElectrJUN 29, 2018 at 16:04

•  
•  
•  
•  
• BY: SAM BURNETT, News editor, Motor1.com UK

 

The new EV will be available to order from 2 August.

Hyundai has officially announced pricing and specifications for the new electric version of its Kona SUV, which goes on sale later this summer. 

The Korean carmaker already offers the Ioniq family saloon in a variety of hybrid, PHEV and electric versions, but this will be the company’s first electric SUV. 

The electric version of the Kona has a number of changes to make it stand out from the standard car, including a bespoke front grille, aero tweaks along the front and side and dedicated 17-inch alloy wheels all aimed at improving airflow. 

Prices for the new car will start from £29,495 (excluding the government’s £4,500 plug-in car grant) – that gets you the Kona Electric SE 39kWh, which comes with a 7-inch infotainment display, DAB, Apple and Android compatibility, rear parking sensors with camera, Bluetooth, auto lights, climate control and keyless entry. Phew. 

The next car up the range is the Premium, which also comes with the 39 kWh battery and 100 kW motor and starts from £30,870 before the plug-in grant. That model gets privacy glass, LED rear lights, front parking sensors, auto windscreen wipers, an extra inch on the infotainment display (it all helps), satnav, wireless charging and a fancy Krell audio system. If you want to pay £3,125 extra you can get the Premium version with a beefier 64 kWh battery and 150 kW motor.

The range-topper is the Kona Electric Premium SE 64 kWh, which is available from £36,295 (not including the PHEV grant, etc, etc), which adds additional equipment to the Premium including LED headlamps with auto high beam, static cornering lights and head-up display. Additional refinements include partial leather seats, heated/ventilated electric front seats and a heated steering wheel. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Manufacturers are finally using WLTP figures which is achievable by normal driving 168 miles - WTLP for the Leaf)

I recently took a 100% charged one for a test drive and IIRC that figure seems to be in my mind as showing for the range as I did query the salesman about it.

If in doubt, get the declared figure that the litigious Americans are quoted is 151miles, which is significantly more realistic.  I’d have no problem with one as a second car but not as the sole one..........at this stage. 

1 hour ago, moley said:

The bulls**t continues.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44575399

Electric car buyers claim they were misled by Nissan

His marketing brochure claimed the car could do 235 miles on a single charge.

But having bought the car, he found the range was actually 155 miles

So we have, in my mind, been misled twice, because the claimed range on a full charge is not 235 miles. Secondly, nowhere does it say that you will only be able to rapid charge in 40 minutes only once."

 

 

I gather 200 miles is not too difficult to achieve.  The smaller EVs do not like going over 65 mph due to their stubby and tall shape.  By route planning differently for EVs ie using eco routes, A-roads etc, one can get much closer to the 235 mile quoted range.

 

Nissan have been exposed as omitting to design in thermal management for the 40 kWh battery LEAF2 first rolled out version.  I think the Quick charge ie 43 kWh chargers are too much for these 40/41 kWh battery cars.  22 kWh fine for the motorway fast chargers and 7 kWh at home is fine.

 

I fancied a 41kWh Zoe but it would be the non Quick charge version, range is better, little penalty as I say it but ultimately, for many, it will be the new crop of 60 to 64 kWh EVs that are coming out later this year and next that will be the game changer, especially with hydrocarbon fuel at around 15p a mile.  

  

We initially wanted the Ioniq, but the stupid lead times (9+ months IIRC) put paid to that, whilst in the showroom we looked at the Kona (not EV) but you could tell is was cheap by the very rattly plastics used on the car (above the rear lights especially) it is also pretty small with very limited rear legroom.

 

So although it will be ideal for some people it is not a direct comparison for the Leaf (that would be closer to the Ioniq)

 

After test driving the Leaf (I wanted to hate it as IMO the 1st generation Leaf looks awful) we were VERY pleasantly surprised... enough to order one.

 

We did contemplate on waiting for the Nismo / 60 kWh / 64 kWh or whatever finally materialises, but in reality a fully loaded 40 kWh Tekna is more than enough for 99% of SWMBO’s needs, if she ever does need to charge en-route it would probably be just the once, I do however intend to take it on a 500 mile round trip... just because  this will however be over two days.

Edited 30 June, 20187 yr by Gizmo

16 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

The 235 miles is the NEDC figure... nothing to do with Nissan and is always VERY optimistic (basically rolling road figures with no drag and no comfort items turned on)

 

Manufacturers are finally using WLTP figures which is achievable by normal driving 168 miles - WTLP for the Leaf)

 

We are replacing the Yeti with a Leaf because VAG do not produce a pure BEV yet (you cannot actually order an E-Golf) and SWMBO only does around 120 per week.

 

We have since found out that her work has an EV charger already and they have reserved the parking purely for her (until other members of staff get an EV)  

Not only the range of the vehicle, but the charging times and how many times you can use the rapid charge per day is being questioned by the owners.

Quote

Meanwhile, a number of customers have cancelled their orders.

 

1 minute ago, moley said:

Not only the range of the vehicle, but the charging times and how many times you can use the rapid charge per day is being questioned by the owners.

 

 

Yes agreed, we contemplated not ordering and even cancelling, but in reality a 40 kWh Leaf is absolutely fine (dare I say even ideal) if you do less than 100 miles per day and can charge at home (with the free Nissan / PodPoint 7 kWh home charger), fortunately we fit into both categories, but I am realistic enough to realise that everyone can do this.

 

It’s early days yet but once they go to 200+ miles per charge then the main car in the household (my 20K mile PA Superb) could be changed for an EV, I’m not considering changing for another 2 years so there will be plenty to choose from by then IMO.

 

3 hours ago, moley said:

The bulls**t continues.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44575399

Electric car buyers claim they were misled by Nissan

His marketing brochure claimed the car could do 235 miles on a single charge.

But having bought the car, he found the range was actually 155 miles

So we have, in my mind, been misled twice, because the claimed range on a full charge is not 235 miles. Secondly, nowhere does it say that you will only be able to rapid charge in 40 minutes only once."

 

Stuff like this really bugs me...   it's always 'someone else's fault' as people don't do their research, don't understadn the figures or what they are reading and then go running to someone / the press to complain...

 

They need to grow up and take responsibility for their own decisions!

5 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Stuff like this really bugs me...   it's always 'someone else's fault' as people don't do their research, don't understadn the figures or what they are reading and then go running to someone / the press to complain...

 

They need to grow up and take responsibility for their own decisions!

Exactly!

Not discriminating between advertising or the substantial difference between European and US EV range figures when handing over so much money is hard to understand.   Being ‘fit for purpose’ is pretty fundamental.

?

Where should people do the research as vehicles are launched ,  Official Press Releases and Media / Motoring Press Journals & articles, online / social media including BRISKODA?

 

& Maybe from now, all of the above looking at the WLTP results as published!

 

This type of video might be as much research as many do and many will trust What Car / Autocar / Haymarket Media Group.

But this was not available last year as people ordered cars,

 

Edited 30 June, 20187 yr by Offski

10 minutes ago, Offski said:

?

Where should people do the research as vehicles are launched ,  Official Press Releases and Media / Motoring Press Journals & articles, online / social media including BRISKODA?

 

& Maybe from now, all of the above looking at the WLTP results as published!

Sales would be subject to official declared range or in the case of ICE, emissions figures........at least out here George.

”launched” relates to a sales event/function attended by motoring journalists and such like.

Accepting what a salesperson tells you is naive at best.

Those that were sold KIA / Hyundai in North America & Canada that had the Court Ruling on their side on fuel consumption figures from manufacturers got 'Fuel Cards' from KIA / Hyundai.

Other Governments / Courts around the world are not so good at having Manufacturers be sure to be correct on what they might be giving out about fuel use.

 

Maybe now the EV's ranges, charging times and the likes will be more accurate as to real world use, weather / temps / weight carried if all seats occupied etc.

I agree that people should do as much research as possible on their purchases, but not everyone is that savvy and only read the manufactures brochures. how often have you looked at a holiday hotel to read '5 minute walk to the beach' when you get there it's 5 minutes if you're Usain bolt flat out.

If you buy a petrol or diesel and the manufacture quotes 70 mpg you will probably get 20% less than that in the real world. If you buy an EV and the manufacture quotes a range 235 miles would wouldn't expect the real world figure to be 40% lower.

  

Quote

Nissan said the original claim of 235 miles was correct under an official means of measurement known as the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC).

However, as carmakers have moved to a different measure - known as the Worldwide harmonised Light vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP) - the range is now officially 168 miles.

 

1 hour ago, moley said:

If you buy a petrol or diesel and the manufacture quotes 70 mpg you will probably get 20% less than that in the real world. If you buy an EV and the manufacture quotes a range 235 miles would wouldn't expect the real world figure to be 40% lower.

  

 

 

Why not??  The old testing regime is similar and just a flawed and it's deficiencies have been very well publicised - ie no weight, no A/C running, no drag etc. and a very 'forgiving' regime of acceleration and deceleration.  You'd expect a simlar drop off in terms of range per charge and, lets face it, we can all get VASTLY different economy figures out of our cars by carrying our driving styles.

 

I'm sorry but if people are that naive and stupid then they only have themselves to blame.

 

And your comment re a hotel and a 5 minute walk is equally daft - things like google earth allow you to check the claims and make your own assessment and research!