33 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

it's happening already,  there are places like the green welly cafe at Tyndrum that have EV charge points precisely so they can attract in drivers. While they wait 30 minutes to charge people tend to want something to do and canny retailers will be able to get them to spend some money on food, drink etc

 

we did it on our way to Belfast at Christmas, instead of stopping at the places we usually do we selected alternatives based on them having charge points.  We had just about finished lunch when the car texted me to say it was full so we finished up and headed off. It's basically a change of mindset, you stop thinking about fuelling up as something you have to do and change to it being something that will happen without you while you do something else instead. 

 

Exactly.

Business begets business and problems are immediately recognised as opportunities.

14 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

The current charging infrastructure in ALL the car parks and supermarkets we visit in North Devon is ............ precisely ZERO (and no sign of any plans to install charging points) - so charging at home is the only way for the foreseeable future.

 

If EVs are going to be adopted more widely potential purchasers need to SEE the infrastructure in places they visit regularly, otherwise they'll continue to say "not for me".

Like any serious infection, it’ll spread out from the major city sores.

Just imagine instant grunt and a justifiable excuse for a high fidelity sound system.

9 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Like any serious infection, it’ll spread out from the major city sores.

 

To be fair Devon does look to have relatively sparse coverage 

Edited 2 April, 20197 yr by domhnall

If only we were so badly serviced

Dealerships won’t tell you about the charging infrastructure if they think they can sell you a more long term profitable vehicle.

Cornwall is much better covered 

Cornwall is much better covered 

10 hours ago, domhnall said:

 It's basically a change of mindset, you stop thinking about fuelling up as something you have to do and change to it being something that will happen without you while you do something else instead. 

This is key. People hear 7 hours for destination charging and 30min for rapid charging they think you have to wait for the car.

 

No. The car charges while parked, while you are sleeping. Or the car charges while you are stretching your leg, using facilities, and buying snacks. There is no need to impose the old petrol station thinking to EV, because it has a much more flexible re"fuel" system.

 

Just now, Ryeman said:

Dealerships won’t tell you about the charging infrastructure if they think they can sell you a more long term profitable vehicle.

Dealerships won't try to sell you an EV if they think they can sell you a petrol/diesel SUV from their forecourt.

Dealerships won't bother to sell the idea of EV at all.

Dealerships don't treat plug-in cars differently to ICE cars, no customer education, thus we see PHEV hogging 50kW rapid chargers charging at 3kW for hours.

Dealerships don't treat EV differently when servicing, some people still get itemised oil change on their bill.

 

I do hope dealership all go bankrupt when EV's become norm. Just need shopping centre store fronts for ordering,  handover at their service centre, service by mobile technician or at service centre.

15 hours ago, Skoffski said:

Is she too tight to get an extension?

The further the cabling reached from house to car, the more pavement it reached across, and hence the more trip hazard it created.

Sorry i never understood she was causing that danger.

She will need to get a nice heavy cover over the cable to reduce the trip hazard, like some do with cables to caravans / motorhomes on the street.

1 hour ago, domhnall said:

 

To be fair Devon does look to have relatively sparse coverage 

 

 

mind you if you have a petrol car coverage is pretty sparse too

 

 

 

Edited 2 April, 20197 yr by domhnall

15 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

Sorry i never understood she was causing that danger

Yeah; the point was that she was avoiding causing that danger by parking as close to her front window as she could get.

Just now, KenONeill said:

Yeah; the point was that she was avoiding causing that danger by parking as close to her front window as she could get.

 

I bought my leaf in July. I didn't charge at home until January when I got the extra solar installed. Public charging was easy to do and of course free of charge

 

:-)

 

18 minutes ago, domhnall said:

mind you if you have a petrol car coverage is pretty sparse too

 

 

 

That map misses out an awful lot of petrol stations  - e.g. it doesn't show the 2 petrol stations about a mile from me in South Molton, nor does it show the petrol station at the Asda near Bideford, nor several others I drive past

Edited 2 April, 20197 yr by PetrolDave

2 hours ago, domhnall said:

 

I bought my leaf in July. I didn't charge at home until January when I got the extra solar installed. Public charging was easy to do and of course free of charge

 

:-)

 

OK, I've just measured it, From my house to the nearest public charge point (which didn't exist when my neighbour sold her Leaf) is 1 km each way on foot. It's more like a mile by car, and half that to the nearest fuel station (24 hour unattended self-service).

 

It's several miles to the next nearest of either.

Peugeot e-208 pricing announced on their France website. The manufacturer figures show the EV is cheaper than petrol/diesel counterparts.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/e-208-pre-orders-open-with-pricing.136884/#post-2570164

17 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Peugeot e-208 pricing announced on their France website. The manufacturer figures show the EV is cheaper than petrol/diesel counterparts.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/e-208-pre-orders-open-with-pricing.136884/#post-2570164

From your discussion, "Granted French OLEV equivalent grants are more generous than UK", so in other words you're still trying to say that it's right that part of my taxes should go to subsidising your car.

6 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

From your discussion, "Granted French OLEV equivalent grants are more generous than UK", so in other words you're still trying to say that it's right that part of my taxes should go to subsidising your car.

And it's part of my children's future that's subsidising your use of fossil fuel. In another words, we need global carbon tax.

 

Swings and roundabouts, no one solution is best. But currently, as I had been saying, EV is cheaper to run than ICE counterparts.

51 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

And it's part of my children's future that's subsidising your use of fossil fuel. In another words, we need global carbon tax.

 

Swings and roundabouts, no one solution is best. But currently, as I had been saying, EV is cheaper to run than ICE counterparts.

Your tax is also funding the NHS' treatment of akl the people affected by pollution from traffic. They also suspect the dementia epidemic is due to air pollution.

4 minutes ago, domhnall said:

Your tax is also funding the NHS' treatment of akl the people affected by pollution from traffic. They also suspect the dementia epidemic is due to air pollution.

Nearly choked to death on the soot particles exploding out the back of a Ford diesel pulling onto a dual carriageway. Couldn't wait to overtake in my clean petrol car. How that car gets through an MOT is anyones guess.

Governments have no money. A fair working definition of "government expenditure" is "that which is extracted from the populance in the form of taxes".

On 01/04/2019 at 08:45, wyx087 said:

There are many lamp post based charger in the works, no need to dig up anything to install a charger, just modify a lamp post.

http://www.rolecserv.com/ev-charging/product/EV-Charging-Street-Light

https://www.thechargingpoint.com/news/articles/electric-car-lamp-post-charging-points-are-heading-to-the-uk/

More: https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=street+lamp+ev+charger&meta=&aq=f&aqi=g3g-s1g6&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&cad=h

 

The point about wastefulness is due to rapid charging takes a lot of power, it generates a huge spike in demand on the grid. You either manufacture more battery to buffer that demand, or you fire up fast reacting fossil fuel power stations. Neither are a good solution to powering EV, considering the EV is parked many hours of the day and the EV's even has ability to assist the grid.

 

The first generation Leaf does have foot operated parking brake. It's no different to a lot of Mercedes. If you are used to driving automatic, it's really no big deal. EV's ought to be compared to automatic cars, but miles better due to no gearbox logic getting in between your foot and putting the power down.

Hmm aside from the cabling over the street problem, the majority of streets I've seen had cars outnumbering lamp posts by 6 or more to 1.  Fine when most are non-EV, but I could see petty charging wars over lampost sockets between neighbours breaking out when the ratio swings the other way.

 

Rapid charging on a small scale may be detrimental in a local street that isn't built to handle that draw through old cables.  In a specialist EV filling station being fed via a transformer from a HV line, not so much.  Averaging would start to apply  1m EV's charging for 10 hrs at 3Kw would draw the same current as 1m EV's charging for 6 mins at 300Kw.  Not all would fill-up at the same time, a) they couldn't as there wouldn't be enough charge points,  b) Self limiting would occur as people would time shift their recharges to avoid waiting in a queue at the busiest times. and c) people are out and about at different times of the day and night.  Regarding your point about rapid chargers forcing fast generating plant to fire up I doubt it.  Similarly to the way the grid is provisioned for domestic use, i.e. provisioned with the assumption that not everyone will be drawing max power at the same time.  So electric car charging will use the same averaging of usage over a large customer base  principle, the e.g.  1m rapid chargers as a whole will draw electricity according to a daily usage curve similar to the way demand is predicted for domestic usage at present.  Some will be getting put on to charge as others finish, so it'll even out overall.

 

Also what about the millions of small transformers in all those lamp post charging points, parking meter charge points, etc.  The environmentalists are always saying to unplug all those small power bricks etc. when unused as they consume a small amount of electricity even when not plugged in.  The lamp post chargepoints will do the same.  They'll need to be powered for the electronics to function and recognise a car is plugged in, power the charge control console, etc.  The enviromental costs of a million trickle charging lamposts would be significantly greater than switching existing pumps to rapid charge points and servicing a large number of EV's through a handful of 300Kw sockets.

Duplicate post -deleted

Edited 2 April, 20197 yr by widdershins
duplicate post

The turning worm -

https://electrek.co/2019/04/02/shell-exit-refining-lobby/