Tesla 3 v Leaf Plus -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122172_tesla-model-3-standard-range-vs-nissan-leaf-plus-what-you-get-for-your-money

VW Europe battery plant -

https://electrek.co/2019/03/21/volkswagen-northvolt-advance-batteries-electric-vehicles/

Dealerships won’t be spreading this news -

https://electrek.co/2019/03/22/tesla-yearly-service-program-focuses-of-ev-requiring-less-maintenance/

Basically TESLA are making things a lot clearer to understand than the biggest car manufacturer in the world makes understanding.

Servicing and maintenance and preventive maintenance.

Batteries on ICE cars longevity from VW Group can be pretty pathetic, and prices of replacing frightening.

 

TESLA likely to be communicating better with owners and drivers than the VW Group or Dealership Employees do.

A Full Main Dealer Service History with VW Group main dealerships does not mean Serviced to Manufacturers Guidelines or Schedules, just that there is a history of what might be missed.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes

 

It will be interesting to see the Service Intervals and cost of Servicing when VW Group roll out EV's.

 

 

Edited 23 March, 20197 yr by Skoffski

......and 0 depreciation on his Leaf -

 

Brand New Nissan Leaf are sitting in Stock in the UK and with Discount prices.

Different specs obviously, but there are new cars cheaper than used cars, and depreciation is about what you paid and then can sell that car for.

Not many cars around £30,000 can be sold for the same or more than you bought one, but a New Suzuki Jimny can, and the last of the old Jimny's can be.

EDIT.

By private buyers that is, we know Traders / Dealers sell for more than they buy for, or try to, they ask more for them and hope for buyers.

Edited 25 March, 20197 yr by Skoffski

My '64 24kWh Leaf Tekna was bought at 18k miles for £9100. It is still asking for around £10,000 on Autotrader, some with 40k or higher mileage.

I think I can sell my car for £9000 right now, with 33k on the clock. That's almost zero depreciation for 15k miles, 1.5 years of driving.

Nobody can say there’s no pentup demand for BEVs, but that is being contained by opportunistic pricing by manufacturers and dealers.

I get the impression manufacturers are still assessing the longer term demand before they commit to higher rates.  Either way things are more advanced than many would have believed possible.

'Asking Prices' are not always selling prices, but if you get what you are asking for then that is nice.

Dealers selling are a bit different from a owner hoping for a sale at an asking price.

 

@wyx087

Is that a price you think you can get selling privately?

Have you tried a trader or dealer to see what they would give for a straight sale giving you cash money?

 

PS.

Loads of Used EV's around, and Demonstrators like VW e-Golf's looking for buyers.

As for the new model cars with longer ranges Manufacturers can not build as quick as there is demand.

Battery and Electric Motor Production is the Elephant in the room.  Or lack of mass production.

Edited 25 March, 20197 yr by Skoffski

True, asking price is not what someone will pay. But it's a good indication of the going rate on the market. My price earlier is an estimate of rough ball park of what I think my car's current price on the market.

 

WBAC quoted £8800 when the car was 1 year old to me, back in October.

Now, WBAC quoted £9170 for 33k on my car. I understand it's unlikely I'll get this price, but it's a good indication of likely going rates.

 

It looks like people are starting to realise EV are an excellent and cheap local runabout. You won't find other 4.5 year old family hatchback asking for that much.

Mine was bought in July last year with 5,000 miles on it for £24k. It's now got 11,000 on it. I can find an almost identical car (slightly lower spec) but with 12,000 miles on it and it is listed for £25,500

 

depreciation is definitely not as great as on other cars due to the lack of supply compared with demand. Dealers just aren't prepared to negotiate on EVs (or at least I couldn't find any that were prepared to).

More on the Leaf -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122253_2019-nissan-leaf-plus-drive-review-of-long-range-electric-car

All electric seaplane fleet conversion  -

https://electrek.co/2019/03/26/harbour-seaplanes-electric-airline/

17 hours ago, Ryeman said:

More on the Leaf -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122253_2019-nissan-leaf-plus-drive-review-of-long-range-electric-car

 

too expensive. And I wouldn't buy another Nissan. But equally I wouldn't thank you for another petrol or diesel car, they're so sluggish and sound like tractors

 

15 hours ago, domhnall said:

 

too expensive. And I wouldn't buy another Nissan. But equally I wouldn't thank you for another petrol or diesel car, they're so sluggish and sound like tractors

 

 

I am looking forward to the Zoe 2.........

https://insideevs.com/all-new-renault-zoe-spied/  

 

200+ miles, CCS charging and supermini size. The Zoe 2 will be fantastic.

 

We were going to buy the Zoe, but the battery rental and lack of DC rapid charging capability was a real turnoff.

 

I also would not buy another Nissan. Their dealership network is shockingly bad, their cars are mediocre and they had been stationary on EV's for the last 8 years. The Leaf e+ is just 2011 Leaf with a bigger battery stuffed underneath. No thermal management, no chassis upgrade and no aero improvement. Its highway efficiency still plummets and way below industrial leaders: Ioniq and Model 3. Yet Nissan are trying to charge mid-range premium interior Model 3 money for the car, rumoured to be £40k.

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

200+ miles, CCS charging and supermini size. The Zoe 2 will be fantastic.

 

We were going to buy the Zoe, but the battery rental and lack of DC rapid charging capability was a real turnoff.

 

I also would not buy another Nissan. Their dealership network is shockingly bad, their cars are mediocre and they had been stationary on EV's for the last 8 years. The Leaf e+ is just 2011 Leaf with a bigger battery stuffed underneath. No thermal management, no chassis upgrade and no aero improvement. Its highway efficiency still plummets and way below industrial leaders: Ioniq and Model 3. Yet Nissan are trying to charge mid-range premium interior Model 3 money for the car, rumoured to be £40k.

 

 

hmm I think that's sort of right but I think the 2018 40kW (ie one I have) has a few more changes over the 24 and 30, ie the 150bhp motor, pro pilot, epedal etc. The e+ is just the 2018 with a bigger battery and a bigger motor still.   Agree with you about the dealers though they're poor. 

I saw what you said about your 24kwH leaf but in terms of usability the 40 is very good. I drove last weekend from Livingston to Stafford on Friday night and then back again Saturday night. 260 miles each way and it was no problem at all. We stopped for the toilet and we stopped for a meal and then we were there. The only issue was that on the motorway you're stuck with Ecotricity and they charge rip off prices so the return trip cost me £25 in fuel. 

The 40kWh Leaf is good where it allows more people to drive EV. It's priced not much more expensive than original Leaf so it's a good value purchase. 40kWh is perfect local runabout with occasional long distance driving. We don't need 500 miles EV as most people seems to think.

 

The problem with newer Leaf is that although they now have bigger battery, they have the problem of high power consumption at motorway speed, similar percentage of penalty to original 2011 Leaf. Hence why I feel they can't simply put a 60kWh battery in the Leaf e+ and call it a day. The Leaf architecture needs to be re-designed for highway efficiency.

 

In fact, I feel this trend may be undoing for EV's as putting huge battery will undermine their green credentials. Battery size should be made suitable for the car's intended use. 40kWh for city car including schoolrun favourite SUV's; only put 80+kWh in sleek aerodynamic motorway cruisers.

 

£25 in electricity for 500 miles is still cheap. It'd cost £50 in a 50mpg diesel.

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

We don't need 500 miles EV as most people seems to think.

I don't need it regularly, but I have driven 500 miles (car unrefueled, but driver needed food, drink and comfort stops) or so at typically 60 to 70mph in a day.

58 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I don't need it regularly, but I have driven 500 miles (car unrefueled, but driver needed food, drink and comfort stops) or so at typically 60 to 70mph in a day.

We are stuck at a difficult situation with EV. Do you go green and buy 40kWh cars that can occasionally do long journeys? Or do you lug around a big+heavy battery everyday and the planet be damned just so you can drive a bit further non-stop once a blue moon?

 

I think the motoring mentality needs to change. We must adopt the former while the latter carry a bigger purchasing cost + tax penalty to dissuade people.

 

Currently, before EV infrastructure is in place, I think a 40kWh range extended EV makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately we don't have any choice, only the i3 RE 30kWh (90aH). Their 40kWh (120aH) is rumoured to not have REx option.

Edited 28 March, 20197 yr by wyx087

18 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Do you go green and buy 40kWh cars that can occasionally do long journeys

I can easily make a use case that says that I do 200 miles or so in a day once every 6 to 8 weeks, and may do another 4 tags of similar length up to the cited 500 miles over a calendar year.

 

Whilst I do have "off-street parking", it is on the opposite side of a road to my dwelling.

I've been reading this thread and I think there's an important point that the eco minded people contributing have missed.  The transport we have today has evolved by Darwinian evolution into what we want.  Size, shape, range etc of cars, trucks, pickups, buses, etc have been determined over a century of motoring by paying customers voting with their wallets on what they want.

 

It does not matter a jot what range you, I, or anyone else, thinks someone should have in their car, or the greenest way to charge, £££'s will decide what cars look like and what range they have and how they charge.  Petrol and Diesel cars, regardless of size, have 5-600 miles range, why?  A citigo has a 550 mile range, it's a city car!  By cutting the fuel tank size in size and refuelling more often you wouldn't be lugging excess KG's round all day, every day, which would reduce environmental damage to the planet.  For a city car a 100 mile range and (say 5L fuel tank) would still be more than a weeks motoring.  Nobody builds cars with tanks that small though despite the vast abundance of petrol stations.  Why, because the paying customers WANT that 600 mile range.

 

So the winning EV in the current evolutionary race WILL be the un-eco friendly vehicle with the huge liquid cooled battery with a 600 mile range that can charge in 5 mins.  The Leaf 1 is the EV equivalent of the dinosaur, doomed to extinction.  There will be niches for tiny city cars with tiny batteries, rent EV's, etc. for sure, but the players who will clean up will be the ones like TESLA and Jag that will give people 4x4 SUV's with 600 miles range to drive round the city in on the school run and can charge in 5 mins, when they want, where they want..  

^^^^ those second hand, short range Leafs will be going for a song then............no demand....pretty useless.........?.

At the moment there is demand, but only because the Leaf is pretty much the only affordable EV on the secondhand market at present.  E-vehicles are at the equivalent of the 1900's brass cars in IC evolution.  When the alternative is walking or bouncing around on a horse those cars were THE thing to have, but not for long.  First they were surpassed by Model T's then things really evolved.

 

Give someone the choice between even a Model T and say, its modern equivalent a Dacia Sandero, to drive which do you think people would buy?  When say Ford or Skoda brings out a 600 mile battery Kuga or Kodiaq do you seriously think city mums on the school run will choose even the Leaf2 once those 600 milers SUV's hit the second hand market?

Range isn’t an issue for ours second car choice - it’s about how cheap it can be bought for.