1 minute ago, MikeHig said:

Fiat are hooking up with Tesla to pool their "fleets" for emission regulations so that Fiat can avoid - or reduce - their liability for fines under the EU's tighter regs, due in 2021.

Makes one wonder:

> Are the other companies doing enough to avoid fines?

> Which ones are going to be hit and how hard?

> How much of the rapid expansion of the EV market is driven by the imminent new regs with their massive fines for shortfalls in compliance?

I simply wonder how much longer FCA can survive as an independent manufacturer if they have to buy credits in what must ultimately be a shrinking ICE market.  Even Toyota is displaying a sense of panic over their underperformance in the pure electric field.

The EU will need to stamp down on any cheating / kidology.  It is like carbon trading, no less carbon just some others in other countries get money to share around the pollution.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-47845971

 

 

Off Topic from Battery cars, but recently i was checking out Aston Martin Cygnets to see how much the asking prices are of that cheat that Aston Martin pulled off to get the companies emissions looking low.

The asking prices now of some of those rather nice Toyota iQ that Aston Martin trimmed and put badges on are the same as you paid for them when you could buy one when buying a proper Aston Martin.

 

Fiat / Chrysler are at it with TESLA, 

but Suzuki are at it with the high emission New Suzuki Jimny that they are limiting first registrations of in the EU so that their averages emission figures do not rise.

Edited 8 April, 20197 yr by Skoffski

I think EVs will become a bit like computers did when they first took off in the 1980s. There will be a huge number of developments and all different systems until a winner is found. They may be some causalities on the way if someone puts all their eggs in the wrong battery type. If you you've spent billions building a lithium battery plant and one of the newer, less nasty batteries is cheaper to produce you may have the car equivalent of a betamax. I don't think I buy an EV, lease maybe.

2 hours ago, io1901 said:

I think EVs will become a bit like computers did when they first took off in the 1980s. There will be a huge number of developments and all different systems until a winner is found. They may be some causalities on the way if someone puts all their eggs in the wrong battery type. If you you've spent billions building a lithium battery plant and one of the newer, less nasty batteries is cheaper to produce you may have the car equivalent of a betamax. I don't think I buy an EV, lease maybe.

For the consumer, an EV won't ever be outdated, after all, domestic 3-pin plug won't go away anytime soon. Whereas if petrol stations change fuel.......

 

Consider a 2008 Toyota Avensis. It will not be compatible with the new E10 fuel being introduced. https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1009524/E10-petrol-car-compatible-check-fuel

But on the other hand, a 2014 first generation EV won't ever have problem charging because electricity is everywhere. Only need 240v AC, which has never changed since introduction of national grid.

 

The battery production problem is only a risk on the manufacturer. Less servicing on EV's is only a problem for dealerships.

 

I think a more fitting analogy is EV is equivalent to smart phones: They require more frequent charging. Early ones are considered outdated but still works well (I still have a iphone 4s in the cupboard as backup). All smartphones charge via USB, unlike early mobile phones (petrol cars) I never needed to find the charging brick, keeping one cable with the old phone is always good enough. There is a shift in controlling power where the carriers (dealerships) will be just carriers (car delivery).

The AA/RAC/ Greenflag and any Breakdown Recovery organisations need to get moving with the times and Fast Chargers will be needed by 'responders' rather than recovering vehicles to chargers, but recovering will still be required for Motorways and other places where the cars need moved.

 

The other thing is just being able to use charger points with a Credit / Debit card without need for membership / registration, apps and all that jazz.

People using Car Sharing / EV Share / Hire or just borrowing a vehicle just want to find an available charger and not plaster about and relying on 02 and other phone providers not being on a 'shut down'.  But then Lloyds / TSB and others being hacked and having issues is always going to be an issue.

 

Cash is never going to be king when charging, but why not, at Airport Parking ticket machines you can put in Notes to pay, so why not at EV Charging.

Theft of money could be an issue, but then EV chargers should be covered by CCTV.

Emptying of cash would be an issue, but then Charging Places need maintenance and people visiting.

& 'Security Van' need to be going EV as well, so pulling in to charging places should / could be part of the 'brave new world'.

 

I see that most Scottish Local Authorities are lagging behind in the use of an Electric Fleet.

The Scottish Government look like they need to do some butt kicking. Or walk the walk instead of just talking up low emissions.

 

Where Councils do have EV's, the figures mean nothing if the staff are not using them as they should and opting to take the ICE vehicles.

Edited 9 April, 20197 yr by Skoffski

35 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Only need 240v AC, which has never changed since introduction of national grid.

I refer the honourable gentleman to the US and Japanese grids.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Only need 240v AC, which has never changed since introduction of national grid.

The UK National Grid standard voltage used to be 240V but hasn't been for many years - ever since a "harmonised" EN50160 standard voltage of 230V was agreed with Europe (which was 220V).

 

Quote

  EN50160 states 230v +10% -6%, thereby allowing the European 220v system to stay at 220v and UK to stay at 240v, yet both appear to be harmonised!

 

See http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/uk-eu-mains-voltage-harmonisation

 

As LV transformers are replaced it is intended that they will be replaced with ones designed to deliver 230V not 240V, but don't hold your breath!

Paris bus buy up -

https://electrek.co/2019/04/09/paris-800-electric-buses/

Toronto’s approach -

https://canada.autonews.com/technology/toronto-ev-chargers-yanked-transit-lots-because-they-lose-money

Interesting times if Labour elected -

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/labor-tens-of-millions-to-resurrect-australian-car-industry/10985458

6 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Paris bus buy up -

https://electrek.co/2019/04/09/paris-800-electric-buses/

 

Does not say which manufacturer.  I am aware we (Bollore) are providing LMP battery packs for some of the big Merc buses...

 

https://insideevs.com/mercedes-benz-ecitaro/

 

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 08:59, KenONeill said:

I refer the honourable gentleman to the US and Japanese grids.

All of which have the Nissan Leaf. I am unsure if the onboard AC charger is standard across the globe, but I am sure I won't drive my car beyond Europe, where I can charge wherever there is a plug socket.

 

I feel like your statement is arguing for argument sake.

 

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 10:18, PetrolDave said:

The UK National Grid standard voltage used to be 240V but hasn't been for many years - ever since a "harmonised" EN50160 standard voltage of 230V was agreed with Europe (which was 220V).

 

 

As LV transformers are replaced it is intended that they will be replaced with ones designed to deliver 230V not 240V, but don't hold your breath!

When my solar panels are exporting, it pulls my house voltage to 243v. All electronics can handle anything between 220 and 250v, EV's included.

 

Unlike the 2008 Toyota Avensis, my Nissan Leaf will still be able to refuel in 20 years time. The perception that today's EV will be outdated is a baseless one.

 

 

 

Edited 11 April, 20197 yr by Skoffski

New electric forecourts being built?

 

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleet-industry-news/2019/03/28/gridserve-to-build-100-solar-powered-electric-vehicle-forecourts

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

When my solar panels are exporting, it pulls my house voltage to 243v. All electronics can handle anything between 220 and 250v, EV's included.

LV power supplies are usually designed to meet a voltage range much wider than that (at least all the ones I've had to design/specify as an electronics designer over the last 20 years), typically the specification was between 198V and 263V to allow for +/-10% tolerances on 220V and 240V supplies.

A new world for Germany -

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/twilight-combustion-engine-comes-germany

Norway’s electric plane -

https://electrek.co/2019/04/11/norway-60-electric-airplanes/

The reports in the youtube clip above about far better electric motors and a network of large fast charge "filling stations" for the uk, plus the shift of large manufacturers towards EV production are what I was hoping for/expecting within the next 5 years.  I think that at present the traditional petrol and diesel vehicles still have the edge on price, range, refuelling, convenience, etc. but the balance is changing.  With infrastructure improvements, motor improvements, battery improvements, and a ramping up of mass manufacture all combining to bring down costs and improve range, refuelling times, etc. the EV car market in 5 years time when I'm going to be looking to change my car will be vastly improved.

 

In 2024 the original Nissan Leaf that sits outside my work will look like the EV equivalent of a Model T Ford to today's cars.

If anyone has a running and functioning Model T Ford they want to give me for free i will happily accept it as it will do fine for just getting around locally, 

similarly if anyone has a EV that still is functioning and roadworthy i will take that. 

Driving Classics or cheap vehicles is kind of fun and pretty economic and environmentally friendly, even some ICE cars.

You hope, currently changes in technology forbatteries and motors are not changing that fast. Lets hope that there is some improvement in time to catch up with the rush of government laws,  that are moving us  towards EVs. Jaguar, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, Renault, Audi and Volkswagen all have EVs but no Skoda so far. All of these cars suffer from short range, declining battery capacity with age and expensive replacemnt batteries. While new batteries/super capacitors are being researched it may be some time before they arrive.

Declining battery life maybe not as bad as some might make out, and as for the replacement battery costs for those replacing now on cars maybe 8 years old plus, 

you need to speak with people that have had to replace batteries to know the real cost and is it that much greater than those that have had Euro 5 TSI's from VW Fail and VW not interested, so like cars under 10 years old and some with not that many miles on them.

£4,000 - £5,000 on cars that were from £12,000 to over £20,000, then cars even just out of manufacturers warranty needing a new DSG @ £,3,000 plus.

Vorsprung Durch Technik,  VW have produced rubbish range EV's so far so 'things can only get better'  eventually. 

As to VW and H20 & Electricity, they are still learning how to keep the 2 apart.  They never got that sorted on ICE vehicles.

Several people have mentioned ICE cars having more convenient refuelling. I'm not so sure. My leaf is currently being repaired (it lost an argument with a 40 tonne truck). I've got a Renault kadjar rental. 

 

It's a pain to refuel. I have to go to a special place to refuel, I just can't do it at home. When I get there I have to put on a plastic glove because the fluid it needs stinks and isn't good for your skin. And try as I might I can't persuade it to refuel while I pop in to the shop, if seems you have to stand there and hold in a little lever. Then to top it off they insist on charging an absolute fortune for the special fluid. It's extortionate. 

 

I can't wait to get shot of it because it's such a faff to have to do. 

 

:-) 

45 minutes ago, domhnall said:

Several people have mentioned ICE cars having more convenient refuelling. I'm not so sure. My leaf is currently being repaired (it lost an argument with a 40 tonne truck). I've got a Renault kadjar rental. 

 

It's a pain to refuel. I have to go to a special place to refuel, I just can't do it at home. When I get there I have to put on a plastic glove because the fluid it needs stinks and isn't good for your skin. And try as I might I can't persuade it to refuel while I pop in to the shop, if seems you have to stand there and hold in a little lever. Then to top it off they insist on charging an absolute fortune for the special fluid. It's extortionate. 

 

I can't wait to get shot of it because it's such a faff to have to do. 

 

:-) 

How long does it take to refuel and how many miles will that take you against how long does it take to re charge and how many miles does that take you?

Watch and see.....dry cell battery technology combined with super capacitors is the next big thing.

 

There will be super capacitors in the next generation of EV cars which will allow for instant discharge to the motors for impressive explosive get always with the ability to re-capture it back in the same capacitor from regen braking etc, these capacitors will take the stress away from the batteries.

 

In simplistic terms the same could be done at charging stations via capacitors in the chargers storing up ready to release large amounts of electricity direct into the cars onboard super capacitor. In essence you will be recharging the car in a matter a minutes, possibly faster than you could refill your ICE.

 

See Elon has bought up a big player in dry cell battery and super capacitors- Maxwell technology.

 

 

Edited 13 April, 20197 yr by Defenderben

44 minutes ago, moley said:

How long does it take to refuel and how many miles will that take you against how long does it take to re charge and how many miles does that take you?

 

I think you missed my tongue in my cheek. 

 

The point is it doesn't take me any time to charge the car. It does that itself while I'm asleep/in the gym/at the shops/eating a meal. 

 

But I was trying to post an ev driver equivalent of the sort of thing ICE drivers post about EVs. I'm lucky the insurance company is paying for all the fuel but I've got to scan the receipts for them.