EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[The PM]

Which is exactly why we "The People" need to change not just or necessarily the "ruling elite". We are to blame ultimately because we have let it get this point despite the simple fact that we "The People" outnumber those the "ruling elite" by such a huge number. So then the question arises. How do the few control the many? What methods and means to they use in order to convince billions of people that we need a few corrupt, selfish individuals to provide us with the necessary tools for seemingly unacknowledged self enslavement? "The prison without the bars"

 

When you've come back from the planet you are currently on and returned to Planet Earth please read my comment "it doesn't take into account human nature" again and think carefully about it...

 

I reckon all of us on here have different thoughts about what we think is the "best" Society for us all to live in and we'd find that if we compared notes they'd all be different... And of course there is the "ruling elite" and the other people who want to jump into that role should the current lot disappear who have their own agenda...

 

When you've found a way for us all to want the same things and be satisfied with our lot come back and tell us...

[The PM]

Corbyn is in his sixties and I would not be surprised to see him stand aside before the general election.

 

 

I don't see any sign of that... If he does the replacement will be someone even further left looking at the way the Labour Party is heading at the moment.. 

[domhnall]

Glad to hear you say "until BREXIT is dumped".  

 

Corbyn is in his sixties and I would not be surprised to see him stand aside before the general election.

 

It is like have no government at the moment, or one making decisions based on the a few nationalist with very little knowledge of the subject.

 

I will be so busy implementing BREXIT I will hardly have the time to look up from the PC-terminal. 

 

 

I just found out that the lead official for the telecoms sector in the Brexit department is a 24 year old member of the graduate scheme who has around 12 months' experience and sod all knowledge on the industry (and whom we had top lead by the hand through implementation of a directive in infrastructure earlier this year). Says it all really. 

[trundlenut]

I just found out that the lead official for the telecoms sector in the Brexit department is a 24 year old member of the graduate scheme who has around 12 months' experience and sod all knowledge on the industry (and whom we had top lead by the hand through implementation of a directive in infrastructure earlier this year). Says it all really.

By the time it's all sorted he'll have at least 10 years though.

[Ootohere]

Lets not be Ageist now.

I heard Dame Margaret Mary Beckett this week say how many year negotiations take and how many she has been involved in.

 

That is the issue, all these life long Politicians & Civil Servants, Peers etc that stretch everything out for ever because that is how the system works.

 

It is time that Business is in the running of the Nations & Negotiations with Bonuses & Incentives to get results quickly and not just have a job for life as a 'Public Servant' 

until the Peerage.

 

Michael Fallon MP like the others, a career in Politics, main skill, public speaking and announcements.

Qualification to be a Politician, good at the Yes / No game where you never answer Yes or No.

[theezenutz]

When you've come back from the planet you are currently on and returned to Planet Earth please read my comment "it doesn't take into account human nature" again and think carefully about it...

I reckon all of us on here have different thoughts about what we think is the "best" Society for us all to live in and we'd find that if we compared notes they'd all be different... And of course there is the "ruling elite" and the other people who want to jump into that role should the current lot disappear who have their own agenda...

When you've found a way for us all to want the same things and be satisfied with our lot come back and tell us...

If I'm not on this planet then what planet am I on? And does that mean that you are implying that you believe in extraterrestrials? :).

Anyway back to your question. Can you please clarify what you mean by Human Nature? I have an idea as what you mean and I think that website I linked too has already touched on it, but I'm not sure it gave the answer you were looking for.

You have a concept of a "ruling elite" which is good but what does it mean to you, and back to my question how do the "ruling elite" control people and what means do they use? I think possibly that when you define that question to yourself then perhaps you may begin to understand why Human Nature is like it is, and that it can be changed by perhaps reverse engineering for lack of a better word.

Sorry I'm replying on my phone so it may not make as much sense right now but hopefully we can get somewhere with it.

As for the last part.... Come on, thinking that one person such as myself has all the answers and that you should follow what I say, only as you said replaces what is with the same. For a start we have to start thinking differently as in "outside of the matchbox".

Edited 16 December, 2016 by theezenutz

[VWD]

Thought this one in telegraph today says a lot....

 

 

[The PM]

If I'm not on this planet then what planet am I on? And does that mean that you are implying that you believe in extraterrestrials? :).

Anyway back to your question. Can you please clarify what you mean by Human Nature?

 

A different one to me, I'm afraid... You seem to think that everyone thinks the same way and wants the same thing... I can never see the World working like that...

 

Human Nature: "I reckon all of us on here have different thoughts about what we think is the "best" Society for us all to live in and we'd find that if we compared notes they'd all be different..." Whilst we are all humans, human nature makes us all different in what we want out of life, the reason those ideas you post about will never work... Whilst them may suit some there's millions of others they won't suit...

 

Hence my comments about different planets 'cause if you actually believe that you can get one system that suits us all you must be somewhere else!

 

There is no promised land, simply because no-one can actually agree one what one should be!

 

 

 

Perhaps best to go back to Brexit where, for once, the People actually rejected the status quo...

Edited 16 December, 2016 by The PM

[theezenutz]

Not at all, neither am I interested in arguing over it. i am fully aware that we are by definition as unique as a snowflake and I fully recognize and embrace my uniqueness.

 

Never mind if it doesn't resonate with you then no harm done but I'm going to continue being me regardless.

 

All the best.

 

I will however leave you with something that Sharkrider said quite a while ago that always stuck in my mind.

 

 

Which one describes you?

Edited 16 December, 2016 by theezenutz

[lol-lol]

I just found out that the lead official for the telecoms sector in the Brexit department is a 24 year old member of the graduate scheme who has around 12 months' experience and sod all knowledge on the industry (and whom we had top lead by the hand through implementation of a directive in infrastructure earlier this year). Says it all really. 

 

Pitt was Prime Minister at 24 and Alexander Hamilton was writing the US constitution at that age.  Being technically good is one thing but learning the game of politics often takes longer than being technical good.  God knows we some new thinking to solve the increasing dire UK issues of infrastructure as well as finance and direction of society and 16-24 old often seem more wise than the 66 to 85 brigade.  

[The PM]

 

 

 

Which one describes you?

 

Depends on who I am with at the time...

[lol-lol]

I don't see any sign of that... If he does the replacement will be someone even further left looking at the way the Labour Party is heading at the moment.. 

 

Not necessarily.   Could be Hilary Benn (not someone I would condone with his support in bombing Syria, did not work in Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya).

 

Lots of good other people to choose.  My favorite would be Major Dan Jarvis who could be a unity candidate across the Labour party and the UK. 

 

On another note I would like to highlight the project of tribute to Jo Cox by MPs, musician etc.....

 

 

Edited 17 December, 2016 by lol-lol

[domhnall]

Lets not be Ageist now.

I heard Dame Margaret Mary Beckett this week say how many year negotiations take and how many she has been involved in.

 

That is the issue, all these life long Politicians & Civil Servants, Peers etc that stretch everything out for ever because that is how the system works.

 

It is time that Business is in the running of the Nations & Negotiations with Bonuses & Incentives to get results quickly and not just have a job for life as a 'Public Servant' 

until the Peerage.

 

Michael Fallon MP like the others, a career in Politics, main skill, public speaking and announcements.

Qualification to be a Politician, good at the Yes / No game where you never answer Yes or No.

 

George I'm not being ageist, but if you are in charge of negotiating the rules and regulations for the entire telecoms industry, someone with an understanding of the telecoms industry might be a sensible person to appoint (regardless of their age)

[domhnall]

Pitt was Prime Minister at 24 and Alexander Hamilton was writing the US constitution at that age.  Being technically good is one thing but learning the game of politics often takes longer than being technical good.  God knows we some new thinking to solve the increasing dire UK issues of infrastructure as well as finance and direction of society and 16-24 old often seem more wise than the 66 to 85 brigade.  

 

if he knew the first thing about the industry then the age would not bother me, but he's not got a scooby. Terribly posh, probably etonian, but needs an awful lot of education about what he's supposed to be leading on.

[Ootohere]

I think you know or should know that i was not being serious.

Nothing can be taken seriously about the whole fiasco.  But that is what happens in UK Politics & in International Negotiations or Diplomacy, 

jobs for the boys and girls and friends boys and girls.

[skomaz]

...if you are in charge of negotiating the rules and regulations for the entire telecoms industry, someone with an understanding of the telecoms industry might be a sensible person to appoint (regardless of their age)

 

That would apply to each and every job in parliament or the Civil Service.  None of them tend to have any experience of the particular field or ministy's they lead...   it's long been a bone of contention of mine and many others.

[VWD]

Lets not be Ageist now.

I heard Dame Margaret Mary Beckett this week say how many year negotiations take and how many she has been involved in.

 

That is the issue, all these life long Politicians & Civil Servants, Peers etc that stretch everything out for ever because that is how the system works.

 

It is time that Business is in the running of the Nations & Negotiations with Bonuses & Incentives to get results quickly and not just have a job for life as a 'Public Servant' 

until the Peerage.

 

Michael Fallon MP like the others, a career in Politics, main skill, public speaking and announcements.

Qualification to be a Politician, good at the Yes / No game where you never answer Yes or No.

Seems like "YES (PRIME) MINISTER" wasn't that far off the mark after all

[theezenutz]

That would apply to each and every job in parliament or the Civil Service.  None of them tend to have any experience of the particular field or ministy's they lead...   it's long been a bone of contention of mine and many others.

Very good answer. One very easy step that could be taken is actually appointing the correct people with the right experience in each particular field, rather than those with the right connections or just those that know how to play the game of politics.

[@Lee]

At least the Scots can come up with a plan

 

http://www.snp.org/scotland_will_unveil_its_brexit_plan_on_tuesday

[Eddie-NL]

At least the Scots can come up with a plan

 

http://www.snp.org/scotland_will_unveil_its_brexit_plan_on_tuesday

They have one agenda, and will do anything to achieve it

[@Lee]

They have one agenda, and will do anything to achieve it

and good luck to them I say.

[Ootohere]

The party that forms the Government of Scotland has a plan at least, and the Elected MSP's and MP's in that party seems to be behind it.

As to the people of Scotland & Members of the SNP then who knows.

I doubt the SNP can call another Independence Referendum and get a YES.

Unless that referendum is open to those that got a Vote in the EU IN / Out referendum and then the majority might say, on your bikes, ta ra.

 

What ever it is that they are doing and saying it is a bit better organised than the Conservative & Unionist Party that forms the Government of The British Isles & Northern Ireland,

ie The United Kingdom.

 

The 3 Amigos and Priti Patel & their leader Theresa May MP / PM are just taking the pith really and happy as things are currently it seems.

Lots of messing about out of control MP's trying to just mess up the BREXIT process.

Edited 18 December, 2016 by Offski

[lol-lol]

To say Scotland has a government is not really correct as it has two government ie Edinburgh and London.  Increasingly certain powers have been handed over from London to Edinburgh, the latest being income tax levels where Scotland now has a lower starting band for higher rate tax than England, N.Ireland, Wales by a grand or so.  The only big decision that matters is will Scotland properly move to break away from the rest of the UK so it can go on its own way such as stay in the EU.  I would hope that Scotland will announce it new referendum vote to leave the UK as soon as Article 50 is invoked and good luck to them being successful in the whole process.

 

 

This morning Gideon Osbourne was on Andrew Marr and I thought was quite frank in his comments.  Clearly feels he can say what he likes and is looking forward to a well paid job in private industry..........

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/george-osborne-takes-thinly-veiled-9478319

 

The PM earned the nickname "submarine May" for her relative silence during the Remain campaign before June 23.  Mr Osborne also said the Tory target to cut net migration below 100,000 a year - which Mrs May refuses to scrap - had "damaged" the Remain campaign.  Mrs May has insisted freedom of movement must be curbed as part of Britain's Brexit deal.  Elsewhere he brazenly claimed he “doesn't want to trade from experience as Chancellor” – despite the Mirror revealing he has trousered £500,000 in five months making speeches.  The speeches focused on his six-year stint in the Treasury.

[Ootohere]

LOL@  lol-lol.

 If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it might be a duck, or 2 ducks.  Pitty about the Avian Flu.

 

"The party that forms the Government of Scotland."  ie the Scottish Government, the Devolved Government.

The other Government of the UK has one Conservative & Unionist MP elected in Scotland so he has to be the Secretary of State for Scotland.

Then the Conservative & Unionist Party in Holyrood became the opposition due to the number of List MSP's they got having got less votes than 

Scottish Labour.

 

Yes 2 Governments & funding coming in from the UK, Scotland & the EU. 

Lovely jubbly, but no wonder the SNP are as sick as parrots @ losing income streams.

Edited 18 December, 2016 by Offski

[lol-lol]

BBC script for HIGNFY (even if partiically true not very good taste)...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b085h1rj/have-i-got-news-for-you-series-52-episode-10

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/is-what-bbc-come-to-9481224

Edited 18 December, 2016 by lol-lol