And I thought we in the UK only did that sort of thing because of the novelty value of snow, I'd assumed Scandinavians couldn't be bothered with this sort of reckless behaviour. :p

I may or may not have done many donuts in a fwd car with snowsocks on the front and the handbrake on, in a snowy private car park

Well, until I got the Octy, I have only had FWD cars for the past 12 years, so getting a 4x4 was pure fun

And the first snow of the season is always fun!

But Im still not quite used to how much speed it picks up compared to a RWD...

Edited 27 November, 20169 yr by Gromle

My current vRS is the first 4x4 car I have had, but my other (work) vehicle is a Ford Ranger Wildtrak 3.2 5cyl diesel.

Switchable 4WD but RWD by default, so pretty frisky in the wet, never mind snow :|

Rainsports have a pretty good tread pattern though - diagonal or V grooves and not the large longitudinal grooves that most summer tyres have that are useless in bad weather...

 

Sure thay have a good design and grip which is why I likethem, sure they burn out probably quicker than Bridgestones et al but they are incredibly confident tyres, that I will be keeping for winters.

 

Prior to last 4 years though I have had a mix of tyres, either what came on the car or what I budgeted for

( never premium just midrange at best, including trying out Kumhos but disappointed with those).

 

I've seen when motorways have been completely snow clogged, and not on any particularly exceptional tyres that I can recall, and seen people try and go for it then panic and then immediately drop back. Then I've overtaken them by just driving smoothly.

Lack of smoothness and anticipaton of what may happen next seems to be the big fail many suffer from in all weather conditions.

If you absolutely need to use your car to get to work in the morning, then winter tyres are always going to be better at low temps.

 

If you can look out of the window, see it's cold, and go back to bed, then winter tyres are not essential.

Looking on black circles the bulk of winter tyres have a B rating for wet performance. Does this mean when wet the stoping or handaling performance is worse negating any improvement from increased performance when cold? I have noticed cross climates have this A wet rating, so may be a better compromise.

The EU tyre test is done at quite a warm temperature, so all winter tyres will perform poorly in it. Do not take it as a guide of how they will perform in the wet when it is cold. There are no standardised tests or ratings for this. Cross Climates are summer tyres that are designed to work better in the cold, but still cannot match the performance of most winter tyres as all tyres are a compromise. It depends where you want to draw your line

I'm putting my winter wheels with my Mountain and snowflake winter tyres on the new Octy tomorrow - temps are often below 7C now and that when the Winter tyres will outperform even my decent summer ones.  I owe it to my kids to put the safest tyres on the car - they attach you to the road, and they are also needed when it goes skiing next Feb. Winter tyres every year for me and I'd even put them on for the winter if I wasn't skiing.

If you absolutely need to use your car to get to work in the morning, then winter tyres are always going to be better at low temps.

If you can look out of the window, see it's cold, and go back to bed, then winter tyres are not essential.

What point are you trying to make here?!

I also had mixed feelings then Found this video :

https://youtu.be/elP_34ltdWI

What point are you trying to make here?!

 

I'm defining, in loose and easily understandable terms, some criteria for deciding whether someone needs winter tyres.

 

Check our the first five posts in this thread, there are some other views there too.

I also had mixed feelings then Found this video :

https://youtu.be/elP_34ltdWI

 

See that clip from 0:55...that is +/- what I have experienced some years ago (see my post #40 above).

I do not wish anyone to get into situation like that.

The one reason to not have winter tyres - above about 6 or 7 degC and certainly at 10degC the grip drops off against summer tyres.

If you're aware of this it's not a major issues but just something to watch especially on roundabouts and winding roads.

I've found putting a little more air than the summers helps a lot but it's still noticeable unless you drive like miss daisy.

Really,

The grip of winter tyres drops off as the road temp and ambient temperature get warmer, above 10*oC or so up to the possible 23*oC Ambient?

 

Others say they wear and are squidgy, ie soft and squirmy. So using in summer is wasteful, i find that night time summer in Scotland can be well below 10*oC, and also wet. That means i am happy to use them all year around.

Personally i also fit Winter Tyres for going Sprinting / 1/4 mile strip driving, due to the better traction off the line in the warm or in the cold / damp.

 

For UK National Speed Limits & northern UK temperatures and rain fall, Winter or All Weather tyres seem to work very well IMO & IME.

Maybe sporting driving on roundabouts and the likes shows up a weakness of Winter Tyres in warmer weather, 

but then there are the likes of Michelin Cross Climates that are Summer Tyres with Winter Ability or for those not wanting Winter Tyres in the Summer or Warmer weather.

 

PS

re post #86, 

what do you mean, is it that putting more air in winter tyres helps their performance in warmer weather?

Edited 2 December, 20169 yr by Offski

The one reason to not have winter tyres - above about 6 or 7 degC and certainly at 10degC the grip drops off against summer tyres.

If you're aware of this it's not a major issues but just something to watch especially on roundabouts and winding roads.

I've found putting a little more air than the summers helps a lot but it's still noticeable unless you drive like miss daisy.

 

Did you experience this yourself and which tyre(s) was it that gave you that issue?

 

There are as many grades of winter tyre as shades of grey (more so than summers) so there may be tyres that fall off worse than others.

 

Personally I have not had anything from Continental give me any cause for concern until well into the 20s. They did feel uncomfortable in 32 degrees one day but it was better that than no tyres after having multiple punctures in one day 

Goodyear ultragrip 8s on the vRS in the winter versus Conti SC5s.  Very noticeable when you've just got your tyres changes (I was for the most part of the time I drove the vRS using the same wheels and swapping tyres).

 

Yes increasing pressure a few psi made a big difference to the vRS when the weather was warmer - I've yet to try it on the X3 as I once got the wheels on on monday (had the car about 3 weeks).  Not a huge issue for me most of the time as I tend to drive early morning and later at night on the commute but it's very noticeable during the day when it's warmed up a bit.

 

The X3 is a more complicated situation - there's Perellis on the Summer wheels and Dunlops on the winter but the wheels and tyres are smaller 245/55/r18 all round versus 245/50/r19 front and 275/45/r19 rear plus runflat etc.

Edited 2 December, 20169 yr by gullyg

I've decided to have Winter tyres fitted to the nearside front and offside rear and Summer tyres fitted to offside front and nearside rear - Best of both Worlds!  :clap:

 

Ok, not really! Nokians fitted to both my vRS and Mrs Isocrems Hyundai i10 this morning. First time on Winters so I'm hoping for an event free Winter period. Safe driving to all, whatever tyres you choose to fit  :thumbup:

Edited 2 December, 20169 yr by Isocrem

gullyg,

so is this Central Belt / Forth Valley driving you are talking about?  

Nothing extreme then for hot or cold or rain and where many just drive with what the car comes with, and when the road gets blocked with a car stuck or jack-knifed lorries the vehicle sit and wait and go no place.

gullyg,

so is this Central Belt / Forth Valley driving you are talking about?

Nothing extreme then for hot or cold or rain and where many just drive with what the car comes with, and when the road gets blocked with a car stuck or jack-knifed lorries the vehicle sit and wait and go no place.

Yup. Bonnyrigg to Easter Howgate over the roslin glen and then down along the Edinburgh city carpark to Edinburgh park.

Nothing major to worry about, not like up north but I have ill family (as in drop and run to follow an ambulance) up In moray so the winters is really for "emergency" use - I wouldn't bother otherwise as I'm lucky enough to be able to work from home for extended periods of time.

Edited 2 December, 20169 yr by gullyg

Just bought a set of Michelin CrossClimates. Essentially they're summer tyres, rated to be used in winter. They have the mountain peak snowflake icon, plus m+s.

Check out the reviews.

I don't intend to switch back to my summer tyres now.

Just bought a set of Michelin CrossClimates. Essentially they're summer tyres, rated to be used in winter. They have the mountain peak snowflake icon, plus m+s.

Check out the reviews.

I don't intend to switch back to my summer tyres now.

 

 

It would be interesting to drive a vRS on those - I've always suspected they're a poor compromise for summer/winter tyres used correctly.

I don't think they're marketed as performance tyres.

My needs, as family man with small kids, are more orientated towards grip in difficult conditions. We live semi-rural, plus are driving to Berlin for Xmas

I don't think they're marketed as performance tyres.

My needs, as family man with small kids, are more orientated towards grip in difficult conditions. We live semi-rural, plus are driving to Berlin for Xmas

 

No I'd suspect they're not - it would be interesting to know what their limitations are and the vRS would be more likely to show them.

 

Certainly for most people I would suspect they'd be fine, a good comprise, and give a bit more winter grip, although personally I'd prefer to have max grip all the time but then you have to pay for more tyres and change them over etc etc plus even then as above winters aren't great when it's too hot.

Edited 4 December, 20169 yr by gullyg

When you look at the wet/braking rating of "summer" tyres and compare them to winters, the winters tend to come off worse.

 

This might lead you to conclude that if it's cold and wet you are better on summers.

 

 

Someone raised the point that they were all tested at a standard temperature, so not really a fair comparison.

 

I'd like to see them head-to-headed at 30C and at 2C and see what happens.

Edited 5 December, 20169 yr by Jono

When you look at the wet/braking rating of "summer" tyres and compare them to winters, the winters tend to come off worse.

 

This might lead you to conclude that if it's cold and wet you are better on summers.

 

 

Someone raised the point that they were all tested at a standard temperature, so not really a fair comparison.

 

I'd like to see them head-to-headed at 30C and at 2C and see what happens.

 

The cold test - see link earlier; hot test...I guess no one bothered to do one so far.

I could bet any money, that grip benefit in cold is waaaay higher than any loss at higher temperature.

Main disadvantage of modern winter tyres in warm conditions is excessive wear...that's all; anyway as far as I my observations go, Nokians I have for winter behave noticeably better on wet (in transition period) than contis sport I have for summer.

 

This might lead you to conclude that if it's cold and wet you are better on summers.

 

 

 

That's not my experience of running winter tyres for a decade or two in winters that are mainly cold and wet.

 

It helps if you get a tyre that is made for 'cold and wet' not 'knee deep in snow'

Someone raised the point that they were all tested at a standard temperature, so not really a fair comparison.

 

I'd like to see them head-to-headed at 30C and at 2C and see what happens.

30C? why - we're not likely to see that temperature in the summer let alone in the winter

FWIW there have been many tests to verify exactly that point - ie what happens when we get a freak warm day. Yes your summers (unsurprisingly) are better but the margin is very small. Google is your friend:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-VS-Winter-tyres-Warm-weather-performance.htm

"Our advice? If you commute during the winter and rely on your car to get to work, winter tyres will give superior grip on cold mornings without sacrificing more than 10% of summer tyre performance during the odd freak warm day."

My personal experience: my current ultragrip 8 performance winters don't show any noticable drop off in grip at 10-12 degrees. I don't have any science to back this up but i wouldn't run winters if they were crap on a freak warm day as we often get this in the UK.