Petrol (220) or Diesel (190) post April 2017

[knfruitbat]

OK, So post April 2017 and not knowing if the government are going to start punishing all those drivers they converted to diesel. What engine would you go for in a new Superb L&K Estate? 220PS Petrol or 190PS Diesel

 

I do a 7.5 mile commute each way to work four days a week, leave early/late so normally fairly clear mixed 30 to 50 roads. And then weekend road trips, family days out, long trip holidays using the ACC etc. Annual mileage about 10k.

 

I did have a 190PS diesel on order for the end of March but someone screwed up, and now I have to start again. So as I am now not going to be getting the car registered before April and tax/CO2 emissions then become pretty irrelevant, was considering swapping back over to a 220PS Petrol as even the insurance seems to be the same. I worked out on another site that the diesel does about 45mpg and the petrol does about 33mpg, real world mixed journeys, so about 9p/mile to 12p/mile respectively, based on local fuel prices at the moment. DSG is a must as I have limited movement in my left arm or left knee, but do like to be able to accelerate through a corner from time to time, so will be getting paddles. Quotes I have so far are about £1500 difference with everything else being the same.

[Rainmaker]

Try to test drive both and see which you prefer, then order that one. Petrol for me, especially for the grin factor and at your (our) kind of mileage. The 190 will be a little more economical on paper (depending of course on how warm you get it) but you have the DPF and SCR to consider also.

[Csory]

7.5 miles of commute screams petrol to me... As Rainmaker said: diesel w/DPF is not ideally suited for this type of use. Also, I found the 190 to be relatively harsh compared to the 150. If it had to be a diesel, it would be the 150 for me. But it is the 220 instead 

[Mon55]

Petrol all day long with a commute that short.

[MartiniB]

Petrol + 1

[penguin17]

I personally wouldn't even consider a diesel with that mileage, unless you're also towing or carrying a lot of kit.    Regardless of the economy that type of driving wouldn't be best suited the DPF; the car will be forever doing active regens as I doubt it would reach the temps required to do passive ones.  Recipe for disaster. 

 

 

 

[Smudgers]

Petrol +1

 

I moved over from the dark side, first time I have had a petrol car for many years. My decider was the fact I could get the petrol with my preferred options for just about the same base cost as the equivalent diesel without options.

 

Just got mine, its only running in at present but my initial impressions are its a peach

 

Differences I have noticed so far:

Smoothness and very low noise in cabin around town - Motorway speed still very relaxed.

Stop start almost unoticable

Fuel is cheaper (Running on Vpower UL) (Thanks Rainmaker for your great instructions as pinned)

 

I also constructed a small spread sheet based on published list prices, published fuel consumption (using combined figures), road tax and came to the conclusion that it would take me a minimum of 5 years or around 60k before I started to see the diesel start to pay. If HM gov decides it no longer likes diesel those figures would get even greater. Didn't include depreciation.

 

Not sure but would you also have the AdBlue stuff to "worry" about with that engine ? Which is an additional cost although it be quite small per mile.

 

Hope that helps

 

[RickTT]

If a private purchase petrol.

 

If company car and bik comes into it and you can hand the car back diesel.

 

If your leasing it .. Go for the best deal.

[NX01]

12 hours ago, knfruitbat said:

OK, So post April 2017 and not knowing if the government are going to start punishing all those drivers they converted to diesel. What engine would you go for in a new Superb L&K Estate? 220PS Petrol or 190PS Diesel

 

I do a 7.5 mile commute each way to work four days a week, leave early/late so normally fairly clear mixed 30 to 50 roads. And then weekend road trips, family days out, long trip holidays using the ACC etc. Annual mileage about 10k.

 

I did have a 190PS diesel on order for the end of March but someone screwed up, and now I have to start again. So as I am now not going to be getting the car registered before April and tax/CO2 emissions then become pretty irrelevant, was considering swapping back over to a 220PS Petrol as even the insurance seems to be the same. I worked out on another site that the diesel does about 45mpg and the petrol does about 33mpg, real world mixed journeys, so about 9p/mile to 12p/mile respectively, based on local fuel prices at the moment. DSG is a must as I have limited movement in my left arm or left knee, but do like to be able to accelerate through a corner from time to time, so will be getting paddles. Quotes I have so far are about £1500 difference with everything else being the same.

 

Hi

 

Your commute is essentially the same as mine (i do 10 miles) and have the 220TSI and average 550 between fill ups (Full to Red) leaving another 50 mile in the tank using Tesco 99 fuel - there is a noticeable difference between that and 95.  The dealer filled with 95 for the first tank as an apology.  After that used the 97 from Esso which was not much different, the 99 has been used since our holiday to Austria last year and the car responds and feels alot better.  I was told by the dealer, various forums and my local family independent who I have used for 15 years, and who I cannot wait to get back to as the service side of my dealer is rubbish, to run away from diesels as the commute would kill the DPF.  

 

Our annual mileage is similar also, although having now got this car I am finding myself doing more photographic events than previously which I think is down to just how much of a dream the car is to drive.  Many of the events are late nighters and you simply do not get tired driving it.  The engine cruises but also has that roar should you want it, cannot count anymore the number of "car drivers" I have annoyed with just putting my foot halfway down and leaving them standing.  

 

Paul

[Warrior193]

I'd say petrol is the way to go - Hi Pentax, that's great mileage you're getting, you must have a pretty light right foot (most of the time)

[lksuperb]

With that commute I think you need the 280 petrol . You know you want  it . 

[Redboy]

14 hours ago, knfruitbat said:

OK, So post April 2017 and not knowing if the government are going to start punishing all those drivers they converted to diesel. What engine would you go for in a new Superb L&K Estate? 220PS Petrol or 190PS Diesel

 

I do a 7.5 mile commute each way to work four days a week, leave early/late so normally fairly clear mixed 30 to 50 roads. And then weekend road trips, family days out, long trip holidays using the ACC etc. Annual mileage about 10k.

 

 

 

" Those drivers they converted to diesel" AKA people who wanted to reduce their fuel costs. Some of whom have removed EGR and remapped cars to produce similar performance as petrol.... regardless of any additional pollution ....now think they were forced to buy diesel. Manufacturers Pollution levels should be treated with the same scepticism as their MPG figures. 

 

A 7.5 mile commute isn't worth the hassle of diesel, in the winter my TSI engine temperature is only about 80c towards the 7 mile point on a similar rural commute. 

[knfruitbat]

29 minutes ago, Redboy said:

 

" Those drivers they converted to diesel" AKA people who wanted to reduce their fuel costs. Some of whom have removed EGR and remapped cars to produce similar performance as petrol.... regardless of any additional pollution ....now think they were forced to buy diesel. Manufacturers Pollution levels should be treated with the same scepticism as their MPG figures. 

 

A 7.5 mile commute isn't worth the hassle of diesel, in the winter my TSI engine temperature is only about 80c towards the 7 mile point on a similar rural commute. 

Yes the government actively encouraged people to switch to diesel. Just look at road tax costs. And they reduced the gap between the price of diesel and petrol to practically nothing. Diesel used to be considerably more than petrol. I never said "forced". Neither did I make any mention of modifying the car which can, and judging by this forum is, done to any vehicle. Throttle response chip seems quite popular on DSG whatever the fuel. 

[knfruitbat]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I am trying to arrange a 220 test drive, but there seems to be a lot more diesels around to test, probably due to company cars.

[NX01]

2 minutes ago, knfruitbat said:

Thanks everyone for the responses. I am trying to arrange a 220 test drive, but there seems to be a lot more diesels around to test, probably due to company cars.

 

Had a similar problem, one of my dealers employees had an Octavia VRS 230TSI with DSG box so I had a 15 minute test drive in that.

[ionelmc]

1 hour ago, knfruitbat said:

Thanks everyone for the responses. I am trying to arrange a 220 test drive, but there seems to be a lot more diesels around to test, probably due to company cars.

 

Can't hurt to test the 280 too (just joking, don't do it - it'll ruin your opinion on everything else once you drive it)

 

But now more seriously, does it really matter what kind of engine if you're stuck in heavy traffic? Does anyone not associate commute with slow traffic?

 

 

[knfruitbat]

37 minutes ago, ionelmc said:

 

Can't hurt to test the 280 too (just joking, don't do it - it'll ruin your opinion on everything else once you drive it)

 

But now more seriously, does it really matter what kind of engine if you're stuck in heavy traffic? Does anyone not associate commute with slow traffic?

 

 

I live on the outskirts of London so insurance is already nearly £500 a year, can't justify the 280. I would be paying extra for everything and wouldn't get the chance to open it up and having some fun, at least during the week. I am normally at work pretty early to avoid the traffic and stay late if there are any problems rather than sit in traffic. Better getting paid at work, than pay to sit in traffic.

 

But I think you are right best not try it and then want what really doesn't make any sense.

[Rainmaker]

3 hours ago, knfruitbat said:

Yes the government actively encouraged people to switch to diesel. Just look at road tax costs. And they reduced the gap between the price of diesel and petrol to practically nothing. Diesel used to be considerably more than petrol. I never said "forced". Neither did I make any mention of modifying the car which can, and judging by this forum is, done to any vehicle. Throttle response chip seems quite popular on DSG whatever the fuel. 

 

TBF there's a huge difference. One is a box that simply alters the throttle response; something you could do with your right foot, if you could put up with with the lag. The other involves ripping out legally required emissions control equipment, resulting in a huge increase in dangerous pollutants. If a person can't or won't afford to pay for remedial work on a faulty DPF or EGR then arguably they shouldn't have bought a modern diesel in the first place. A closer comparison might have been decatting a petrol's exhaust, but even then they will generally still pass emissions tests without them (provided they're not otherwise broken). You can't say the same for a diesel missing its DPF, EGR and/or SCR systems...

[knfruitbat]

"Some of whom have removed EGR and remapped cars to produce similar performance as petrol.... regardless of any additional pollution" was rather making the point that modifying engines (which I didn't suggest) can be done very simply to any vehicle. Don't see the point in knocking diesel cars just because someone may modify it or not look after it correctly. As you say it is possible to take the DPF or the CAT out with same effect, not really relevant to diesel or petrol. Whole range of modifications that affect pollution levels, either to improve performance, or just keep an old heap running.

I currently have a 2004 diesel, which has both DPF and EGR valve. I recently took out the EGR valve serviced it, made sure it was in good working order, and put it straight back in again. Although as I understand it due to the age of the car I could remove the DPF and map it out totally legally. I choose not to. I also currently car share to work in a Toy Prius. Irresponsible drivers will be irresponsible whatever engine they get their hands on. I am sure if someone suggested diesel drivers drive long miles on the motorway economically and petrol drivers short miles around town as fast as possible, and therefore ignoring economy, so petrol drivers create more pollution, they would get shot down pretty quickly, it is just not reasonable to suggest that or make such a generalisation. Yes Diesel create more NOx & Particulates, but Petrol creates more CO2. Still not sure why the lag exists and if that is to help with emissions, or not? But from what you guys have said I will probably be following your example and adding the box if it makes throttle more predictable.

[Rainmaker]

26 minutes ago, knfruitbat said:

"Some of whom have removed EGR and remapped cars to produce similar performance as petrol.... regardless of any additional pollution" was rather making the point that modifying engines (which I didn't suggest) can be done very simply to any vehicle. Don't see the point in knocking diesel cars just because someone may modify it or not look after it correctly. As you say it is possible to take the DPF or the CAT out with same effect, not really relevant to diesel or petrol. Whole range of modifications that affect pollution levels, either to improve performance, or just keep an old heap running.

I currently have a 2004 diesel, which has both DPF and EGR valve. I recently took out the EGR valve serviced it, made sure it was in good working order, and put it straight back in again. Although as I understand it due to the age of the car I could remove the DPF and map it out totally legally. I choose not to. I also currently car share to work in a Toy Prius. Irresponsible drivers will be irresponsible whatever engine they get their hands on. I am sure if someone suggested diesel drivers drive long miles on the motorway economically and petrol drivers short miles around town as fast as possible, and therefore ignoring economy, so petrol drivers create more pollution, they would get shot down pretty quickly, it is just not reasonable to suggest that or make such a generalisation. Yes Diesel create more NOx & Particulates, but Petrol creates more CO2. Still not sure why the lag exists and if that is to help with emissions, or not? But from what you guys have said I will probably be following your example and adding the box if it makes throttle more predictable.

 

Not much to disagree with there mate. I wasn't arguing with you just saying having a pedal box isn't comparable to - say - removing a DPF.  BTW as far as I remember if emissions devices are fitted then it is indeed illegal to remove them, even if they were optionally installed by the OEM above and beyond the then current emissions regs. Not that it applies to you, but I thought I'd add that in. Modern Euro 6 diesels do still produce more NOx than petrols in comparison with their respective published standards.

 

 

CO2 is arguable, as it's basically plant food and even now the debate on its effects as a 'greenhouse gas' is nowhere near final. Not to mention the portion of CO2 emitted each year by passenger cars is absolutely infinitesimally tiny compared to that from other sources, most of natural origin. NOx on the other hand is an outright killer, no doubt about it. That said, modern diesels are not at all the death machines some people are making out. Older stuff, sure. Dirty as hell. But the EU6 engines are - mostly - quite decent. I especially like the Mazda 2.2 units (one of the only four pots I've enjoyed), Jaguar's V6, and BMW's efforts. The only crunch for me is how  or when they become 'worth it'. Even doing my previous mileage of 30-50k a year, you've a choice of an insipid rattly 4 pot diesel or else a more refined 6-8 cylinder diesel (>535D, XF S v6 etc) which only ends up returning similar economy on the motorway as a decent 6-8 cylinder petrol anyway (circa mid 30s). 

 

If you were any closer I'd take you out in our 220. I'm sure one of the other members with a 220 must be closer to you?... I don't think you'd be disappointed and as a few of us have pointed out, at your mileage the economy is very decent indeed and the refinement is a whole other level.

Edited 7 March, 2017 by Rainmaker

[ionelmc]

Another thing to consider, the 190 diesel can have 4x4 while the 220 petrol can't.

[Rainmaker]

9 minutes ago, ionelmc said:

Another thing to consider, the 190 diesel can have 4x4 while the 220 petrol can't.

 

That's true, but it's not much of a deal breaker really. It has benefits for booting it from a standstill, but it won't help you go round a corner or brake any better, whether in good conditions or wet/snow/ice. Although I doubt Essex/London has much of a call for special winter measures, a set of winter or all season tyres would be a hell of a lot more use than AWD (a 2WD car on winters will go many more places then an AWD/4x4 is able to on standard tyres). Of course if the OP could manage it then the 280 AWD would be a bonus, for the standing-start traction as much as anything. Choosing between a 190 or 220 comes down much more to diesel v petrol than whether one or the other has AWD imho, as it's just not that relevant.

[freelunch]

1 hour ago, knfruitbat said:

I live on the outskirts of London so insurance is already nearly £500 a year, can't justify the 280.

The 220 is plenty car. You really don't need the 280 to feel like you're going fast in a hurry! It's a really nice motor.

[ionelmc]

To be fair the 280 has huge turbo lag. I'd expect the 220 to be more "pokey" (but with less torque in high rev)

 

44 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

It has benefits for booting it from a standstill, but it won't help you go round a corner or brake any better, whether in good conditions or wet/snow/ice.

Unless you're flooring it though the corner, haha.

 

[knfruitbat]

Probably needed 4x4 about twice in the last 5 years, one on a very wet flooded grass car park near Tintagel in Cornwall, and the other a car show in Hertfordshire, again flooded field and not the norm. As Rainmaker says not really the need in the outskirts.

Don't really feel the need to boot it either, but am I pretty good judge of feeling for the grip. Used to drive rapid response car and motorbikes, so just happy to make steady rapid progress, driver and tyres make more difference than fractions of a second book 0-62 times.