1.4 TSI ACT 150 or 2.0 TDI 150 - trying to choose

[Blindek]

in 2018 all Petrols get a Particle Filter, so the DPF wont be a Diesel problem anymore... And the 190HP with AdBlue is cleaner then the other engines, since the TSI engines produce other "shi*" then the Diesel  At the end, nothing is perfekt. 

 

If they want to ban Diesel cars from the Citys then i can understand you worry, but still if you buy a modern EURO 6 Diesel you should be fine for a lot of years to come, since i doubt they will ban everyone out of the City so no one can come to work or shop  

 

Maybe i see it differently since here Diesel engines are a lot more popular, even on low mileage a year, because the resell value is also higher then on petrol so you don't overpay the diesel at the beginning, and i think that wont be much different in the UK. Also how is the Diesel to Petrol price difference? Here its 15 to 20% for the Diesel

 

 

[dg360]

I have a very simplistic view of this.  I often walk through the car park in work and someone senior gets into a Merc.  Something flash like an SL.  

They press than button and.....

chatter chatter dakka dakka dakka 

 

Did someone just just start a cement mixer?! Oh no, perhaps their V8 has dropped a valve?  Oh, they ticked the option to have it with a diesel and ruined it.  If you cared about saving money - you'd have bought a perfectly lovely Dacia.  You don't - you bought a £80k Merc.  They probably tickle it across all of 2 miles to work every day and will go nuts at the dealership when the DPF looks like Oliver Twist is due a visit.

 

Before anyone says - yep, I've heard the latest Merc diesels are much more refined at idle.  I'm sure that with enough fettling and bolt on widgets, we could go back to steam.  Don't get me wrong, petrol needs to go too.  If I could afford a Tesla - I would jump at one.

 

I know our Skoda's aren't Mercedes but you really need to be doing the miles to justify the down sides to it in my book.  

 

For the sake of transparency the only diesel I've owned was a Signum 3l v6 diesel (Izuzu engine).  The only upside, was a general feeling that if I ever needed to, I could probably pull an aircraft carrier into dock from the quayside.  It never came up.

 

I test drove the 1.4TSI estate.  It was great, it pulled away fine and was smooth and quiet on the motorway.  I ordered the 2.0TSI as I have a daily commute of 4 miles each way (when I go into the office).  So I wanted something that made me smile now and then.  I didn't have a hope of getting the 280 past the wife.

Edited 12 July, 2017 by dg360

[RGKTSi]

2 hours ago, Blindek said:

Sorry don't misunderstand me, the 280HP is a nice car, but i just don't like the 4 cylinder noise on high revs and you hear it on the 1.4 even more. The Golf R and Cupra have almost the same Motor as the 280HP Superb, just a bit more tuned and with a nice Exhaust note, witch the Superb kinda lacks.

The previous mark 2 Superb with the V6 engine sounded better no question.  Same as the R32 sounds better than the new Golf R 4 cylinder turbo engine, buts that's progress I am afraid.  They need to make the Superb quieter than the Golf R because of the type of car it is.  At cruising speed on the motorway you can't hear the engine, you get more road noise running 19" wheels to be honest

 

2 hours ago, Blindek said:

What i would say to the 1.4 150HP one is, that in the ACT mode or 2 Cylinder mode, the Motor in cold weather does rattle funny and for some people can also be annoying (for me it was...). But well, it runs on 2 Cylinders so it's logical that it makes a rattle  So Test it before buying! The ACT mode starts at roughly 1400 RPM and was the most annoying for me at around 1600-1700 RPM on low speeds around 50-60kmh / 30-35mph 

 

Very interesting.  I tried a 150ACT engine in an Octavia 3 and it was sweet.  So very smooth with a nice pick up when it ran from 2 cylinders to 4 cylinders.  If I remember correctly I drove the car during warm weather!  I thought it was a great engine.  

 

2 hours ago, skidpan said:

But in the UK the 190 PS TDI is £3000 more than the 150 PS TSi and it would take me about 90,000 miles to recoup that extra (or 10 years). Then I would have potential DPF issues and worries about diesels not being allowed into certain cites which may even get extended to other parts of the UK eventually.

 

As I have said before in the past I loved diesels, we had 6 over a 19 year period but now there are excellent petrols like the TSi I will not be buying diesel again.

 

My thoughts exactly skidpan.  DPF and EGR issues.  And TDi's seem to be more complicated now (to meet emissions regulations) so if they go wrong they are more expensive to repair.  

[bigjohn]

9 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

 

 

One thing is definitely is more sensitive to, however, is weight. I get a few more MPG when I'm out alone versus loaded with a family of 5 and stuff in the boot. Diesels don't tend to show that quite as much (though it's still a factor). 

 

 

 

 

Agree with this - my mpg reduces when driving on holiday with a car full of people /luggage - much more so than my previous diesel did. However day to day tsi economy is great and there is the minor matter of the "silence" in traffic

 

Edited 12 July, 2017 by bigjohn

[bigjohn]

2 hours ago, skidpan said:

 

but now there are excellent petrols like the TSi I will not be buying diesel again.

 

I'll second that - petrol for me now be it tsi or some sort of hybrid

 

 

[bigjohn]

34 minutes ago, RGKTSi said:

 DPF and EGR issues.  And TDi's seem to be more complicated now (to meet emissions regulations) so if they go wrong they are more expensive to repair.  

 

Don't forget SCR - you wait until the first really really cold winter - Houston....

 

Overall if you include parts and labour with euro 6 you now have many £1000's of gubbins attached to the hottest part of the car - what could possibly go wrong.......

Edited 12 July, 2017 by bigjohn

[Ootohere]

Like a really cold winter in the UK which will be nothing like a really cold winter in many countries around the world.

The Cats on a petrol car are pretty hot and pretty low as people go through big puddles, fords etc.

 

Actually all in the pretty sensitive TSI's need good servicing and maintenance and are not that cheap to repair when things go tits up.

[bigjohn]

36 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

Like a really cold winter in the UK which will be nothing like a really cold winter in many countries around the world.

The Cats on a petrol car are pretty hot and pretty low as people go through big puddles, fords etc.

 

Actually all in the pretty sensitive TSI's need good servicing and maintenance and are not that cheap to repair when things go tits up.

 

I'm afraid almost everything euro 6 + is not that cheap to repair when things go titsup (Total Interuption To Service Unspecified Problem)

 

The injection systems are complex on both the petrol and diesel cars and both have turbos etc

 

The 1.4 petrol does not have an EGR valve  (although this function is done by variable valve timing ) but it does have a cat - although these have proven to be pretty reliable and are cheap to sort these days

 

The latest diesels have MUCH more complex emmisions systems ( EGR, DPF,SCR) which are on the hottest part of the car (you try undoing bolts when a car is 6+ years old) and older worn engines are not great for active regens (diesel running past rings/bores and polluting sump oil) . I'll be interested to see how they cope to stop adblue freezing - they have heaters but these surely can't run 24hrs a day (I'm sure this has been tested but I remember the days of lorry drivers lighting a fire to try and get diesel flowing again before the days of when they introduced winter diesel)

 

 

 

Edited 12 July, 2017 by bigjohn

[Ootohere]

Well i can assure you that my 2.0TDI SCR TDI did pretty well this winter.

 

I also remember my father & uncles lighting fires under their lorries in the mornings, and also shoeing the horses & shovelling the sharn..

[bigjohn]

10 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

Well i can assure you that my 2.0TDI SCR TDI did pretty well this winter.

 

I also remember my father & uncles lighting fires under their lorries in the mornings, and also shoeing the horses & shovelling the sharn..

 

Winter - we didn't have one. My fault as I fitted winter tyres 

 

I seem to remember back in 1990/1  a spell when temps dropped to lower than -20c where even neat windscreen washer fluid froze. I had to keep bottles in the car so I could squirt the windscreen to keep it clear

 

Edited 12 July, 2017 by bigjohn

[Ootohere]

You mean you did not have one i take it.

They say -12*oc for adblue to crystallize but i never noticed any issue, and no diesel waxing either.

Edited 12 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[bigjohn]

1 minute ago, Awayoffski said:

You mean you did not have one i take it.

They say -12*oc for adblue to crystallize but i never noticed any issue, and no diesel waxing either.

 

Not really - up here in Yorkshire. It's been a while since we have had an extreme winter.

 

winter diesel shouldn't wax in the UK these  days

[Ootohere]

Should'nt,

Well it did in 2010 in lots of areas at between-15 to -21*oC and at temps below 0*oc Day and night for 7 weeks between Nov & April in the Grampians.

And it has since quite often if you happen to be a bit further north and higher than you are.

 

Temps can drop in August or September some years before Winter Spec Diesel is delivered in October and then people can still have old fuel in their tanks when the temps do drop.

Anyway, that is the real world not the one where Diesel should not wax. It can even Wax in filling station tanks in some areas of the UK.

Snow and low temperatures, December 2010 - Met Office.mhtml

Edited 12 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Gerrycan]

The two engines in question do have different driving characteristics that shine in different conditions.

High (continental) speed, towing, very hilly conditions and I think you have to say that diesel will outperform and give markedly better consumption than the 1.4tsi, probably upto 30% better.

Slower, flatter, urban environments and the consumption difference is much less and can even swing in favour of the petrol.

The only gripe I have with the 1.4tsi is that the engine provides little of no braking effect. Fine on the flat when you can use that characteristic to get better economy but if you are descending a long steepish hill (say 10% or more) then you have to use the brakes quite a lot, where as previous diesels (and even NA engines) and the right gear provided sufficient braking effect to control descent speed.

Would not be a problem if I had a hybrid with regenerative braking of course.

Edited 13 July, 2017 by Gerrycan

[Ootohere]

Now the most up to date Euro 6 Diesel's with 6 Speed Wet or 7 speed wet have 'Coasting' function so no engine braking unless you chose to use a lower gear much of the time. Amazing economy though where you use the DSG the best way of getting it.

As for a 1.4TSI with DSG there is all the engine braking you want from the DSG not from engine compression that anyone might need & driving sportingly or spirited in hills and nice driving roads does not require being on the brakes.  Actually 'S' comes into its own on 'Driving' roads if going between 'D' & 'S' to hold gears or using 'S' to decelerate.

[skidpan]

13 hours ago, Blindek said:

in 2018 all Petrols get a Particle Filter, so the DPF wont be a Diesel problem anymore... And the 190HP with AdBlue is cleaner then the other engines, since the TSI engines produce other "shi*" then the Diesel  At the end, nothing is perfekt

 

The only way to stop polluting is to stop driving. The DPF will not be a problem on petrol engines since it will be a PPF which is substantially different. For starters they are a fraction of the cost and with petrol exhausts running at much higher temps than diesels regens will take place pretty much whenever you drive. My understanding is nothing to worry about (just like a cat).

 

10 hours ago, bigjohn said:

 

I'll second that - petrol for me now be it tsi or some sort of hybrid

 

I thought a hybrid would be a possible car I bought until I went in a colleagues. It was a Auris Hybrid and it was truly horrid. The CVT gearbox ensured that whenever you touched the loud pedal you got loads of revs and noise but little extra motion. Then as we went along the motorway and dual carriageway at 55 mph I asked the driver why, he replied that if he drove like that he got just over 60 mpg, if he drove at 70 mph he only got 50 mpg. Well fek me, the Leon TSi I had at the time would do just over 50 mpg at motorways speeds, if I had dropped to 55 mph I might even have got 60 mpg. But the Leon cost about £2000 less than the Auris and had excellent performance as well as excellent economy.

 

Don't buy a hybrid until you have had a really good trial of one, I won't be buying one.

[skidpan]

1 hour ago, Gerrycan said:

The two engines in question do have different driving characteristics that shine in different conditions.

High (continental) speed, towing, very hilly conditions and I think you have to say that diesel will outperform and give markedly better consumption than the 1.4tsi, probably upto 30% better.

Slower, flatter, urban environments and the consumption difference is much less and can even swing in favour of the petrol.

The only gripe I have with the 1.4tsi is that the engine provides little of no braking effect. Fine on the flat when you can use that characteristic to get better economy but if you are descending a long steepish hill (say 10% or more) then you have to use the brakes quite a lot, where as previous diesels (and even NA engines) and the right gear provided sufficient braking effect to control descent speed.

Would not be a problem if I had a hybrid with regenerative braking of course.

 

On our twice a year trip to the lodge in Scotland we used to average about 57 mpg in our 1.6 turbo diesels (Ford and Kia). In the 2 litre turbo diesel in the Mondeo we averaged about 50 mpg and in similar conditions the 2.0 turbo diesel in the BMW would do about 52 mpg.

 

On the same trip in the Leon 1.4 TSi 140 PS we could get about 50 mpg, amazingly the 150 PS TSi Superb seemed to do a little more, possibly 51 mpg.

 

That is not a 30% difference, at best its 14% compared to the slower 1.6 diesels in the Ford and Kia, compared to the similar performing 2.0 turbo diesels its about the same.

 

In town the mpg of the TSi is better than the diesels (especially in winter) when the combination of low temps, winter diesel and a slow warm up made the diesel mpg plummet.

 

On our 2nd TSi now and I cannot say I have noticed a problem with engine braking compared to diesels. But ours have been manuals.

[davidj241]

25 minutes ago, skidpan said:

 

The only way to stop polluting is to stop driving. The DPF will not be a problem on petrol engines since it will be a PPF which is substantially different. For starters they are a fraction of the cost and with petrol exhausts running at much higher temps than diesels regens will take place pretty much whenever you drive. My understanding is nothing to worry about (just like a cat).

 

 

I thought a hybrid would be a possible car I bought until I went in a colleagues. It was a Auris Hybrid and it was truly horrid. The CVT gearbox ensured that whenever you touched the loud pedal you got loads of revs and noise but little extra motion. Then as we went along the motorway and dual carriageway at 55 mph I asked the driver why, he replied that if he drove like that he got just over 60 mpg, if he drove at 70 mph he only got 50 mpg. Well fek me, the Leon TSi I had at the time would do just over 50 mpg at motorways speeds, if I had dropped to 55 mph I might even have got 60 mpg. But the Leon cost about £2000 less than the Auris and had excellent performance as well as excellent economy.

 

Don't buy a hybrid until you have had a really good trial of one, I won't be buying one.

I recently,much to my shame, decided to change my 2.0l 150 ps diesel for a Lexus is300H hybrid. - What a huge mistake ! - I had taken the car for a normal test drive and all seemed OK. Anyway, after px my Superb I took delivery of the Lexus. The 1st long journey I made in it (50miles + ) I couldn't wait to get out of it - it was so uncomfortable - I had a numb right leg which stayed for 2 days ! - I rang the Lexus garage and complained and they told me to take it in and they would look at the seat. Nothing wrong they said although the seat in mine was narrower than the one I took for a test drive. After much adjustment we still could not get it right. They then said to me what would I like to do? I replied - I'd like my Skoda back please. After some discussion they agreed and I drove my Skoda home. And received a full refund on what I'd paid which I was very happy with ( Top Marks to Cambridge Lexus for their help ) 

The thing I did notice in the 3 days I owned the Lexus was that the hybrid only works for a short length of time ( approx 2 miles on batteries then reverts to petrol ) even around town I was using petrol - in fact fuel economy around town was in the high 30s where as my Superb would have been around 10mpg higher.

To cut a long story short I took a 1.4TSI 150ps Superb for a test drive and was more than impressed with its performance compared to my diesel. Subsequently I now have a 1.4 Tsi on order and it should be here early September. 

[IJWS15]

23 hours ago, skidpan said:

 

The only way to stop polluting is to stop driving. The DPF will not be a problem on petrol engines since it will be a PPF which is substantially different. For starters they are a fraction of the cost and with petrol exhausts running at much higher temps than diesels regens will take place pretty much whenever you drive. My understanding is nothing to worry about (just like a cat).

 

 

I thought a hybrid would be a possible car I bought until I went in a colleagues. It was a Auris Hybrid and it was truly horrid. The CVT gearbox ensured that whenever you touched the loud pedal you got loads of revs and noise but little extra motion. Then as we went along the motorway and dual carriageway at 55 mph I asked the driver why, he replied that if he drove like that he got just over 60 mpg, if he drove at 70 mph he only got 50 mpg. Well fek me, the Leon TSi I had at the time would do just over 50 mpg at motorways speeds, if I had dropped to 55 mph I might even have got 60 mpg. But the Leon cost about £2000 less than the Auris and had excellent performance as well as excellent economy.

 

Don't buy a hybrid until you have had a really good trial of one, I won't be buying one.

 

Seconded

 

Had a Prius for a day from work, would do 200-300 yards or so on the battery from fully charged and the computer was showing 50mpg ish for the day, I was getting 65mpg from the Diesel Octavia I had at the time.

[MasterMunchkin]

Thank you very much for all your collective replies. Very interesting reading. My own feeling is that petrol engines are more sensitive to harder driving and congestion while diesel is a bit more forgiving in terms of overall mpg. Less volatile. The South East of England where much of the driving will be done has more  congestion/driver frustration than the rest of the country... Hard to call overall.

 

Again, thanks.

[MasterMunchkin]

After a lot of agonising my friend took the plunge: Sportline Estate, 150 TDI DSG, Corrida Red. Panoramic roof. Heated seats.

 

Pre-registered with 40 miles on the clock. A bit under £23k with a Volvo Estate trade-in. He would have preferred grey/black but the deal was good overall. At least you can't ignore red!

 

Thanks again for all your collective thoughts/help.

 

MM

Edited 10 October, 2017 by MasterMunchkin

[freelunch]

It'll be easy to spot in the car park. Mine's the hatchback. 

[DRCS]

I ran a 2.0l TDI DSG Se-l Executive Estate for 6,350 miles over 6 months at a true average of 49.16 mpg as calculated by Road Trip app. (Best  52.88 mpg, worst 45.65 mpg.)

My present 150BHP 1.4 TSI DSG with the same specification has averaged 43.33 mpg over 12330 miles over 12 months (best  47.44 mpg over 718 miles in Summer, worst 38.61 mpg over 554 miles in Winter)

As expected the diesel is more economical at almost 6mpg advantage ie 14% which probably means my exclusive use of Shell V Power, both diesel and petrol, is not cost effective, but i like to think that the other "benefits" of the premium fuel will be worth it in the long run.

My preference is the petrol for all sorts of reasons including guarding against increased capital loss on resale of car I bought outright but principally the smooth running and quietness of the petrol engine.

This is my 3rd car with a DSG gearbox and no way would I go back to a manual even though MPG may be marginally improved but as we all appreciate depreciation is the biggest expense in car ownership.

Whatever your choice, enjoy the Superb!

[MasterMunchkin]

Thanks. He wanted a 'lugger'. The rear seats are often down and the car fully loaded. Hence the diesel option. I do wonder about the 19" wheels though and the possibility the Sportline may not be as pliant or as comfortable as Superbs with smaller wheels, especially on long trips. Increased potential for more road/tyre noise. Still, he made his bed...

Edited 10 October, 2017 by MasterMunchkin