Having recently had a brand new turbo and EGR. Noticed after a day every morning soon after leaving home upon acceleration there is a more clattery metallic diesel knocking noise. This is temporary in a low rev band. Pretty much always within half a mile and goes away. 

This evening leaving the office I felt there was an idle based clicking/knock. I have googled and read various forums most say the hydraulic lifters are maybe the issue. Injectors perhaps. Or even exhaust gases maybe leaking.

 

I believe it had fresh oil last week with the work. Booked back in to have another oil and filter after around 1k anyway.

 

Given the spend on the car so far really not looking forward to the cost this new issue may bring. 

 

Also first time In approx 450 miles,the temperature needle took a long time to get to 90 again this morning. 

 

I have been driving gentle to protect the Turbo as much as possible given motorway driving speeds 

 

Firstly what could the noise be, should I be very concerned?

 

Could anything have been disturbed changing the EGR & Turbo, as there is a lot of dismantling done?

 

I really love the Superb package, but losing faith in this car fast. It had a full service history albeit last 4 years receipts and stamps from the owners friends garage. Oil changes were every 10k

 

I forgot to say checked the errors logged in VCDS I never found anything a couple of days ago. 

14 hours ago, gav_is_con said:

 

This evening leaving the office I felt there was an idle based clicking/knock.

 

 

Dual Mass Flywheel?

 

6 minutes ago, bigjohn said:

 

Dual Mass Flywheel?

 

I presume I have one being a diesel and DSG?

Also read it was that somewhere else potentially. 

Just seems so much like its engine and speed related, and then again the DMF is affected by that. For some reason I would rather it was the DMF than the engine lol. 

20 minutes ago, gav_is_con said:

I presume I have one being a diesel and DSG?

Also read it was that somewhere else potentially. 

Just seems so much like its engine and speed related, and then again the DMF is affected by that. For some reason I would rather it was the DMF than the engine lol. 

 

Yup diesel DSG has DMF

 

If it is a tappet - once apon a time you could use and engine oil flush (Wynns etc) before an oil change  , not sure in this modern DPF world though as the oil used is critical.

 

Now there is a thought - did they use the correct oil when changing the turbo, this is important!

 

I'd take it back to where you had the work done to check it out. Replacing the EGR/turbo is major work and the exhaust side will have been disturbed. An exhaust manifold leak noise not always obvious - if near the port can sound like a "tap" or loud "click"

 

NB If it was a dealer did the apply the VAG cheat fix? This changes the sound of the engine

 

Edited 12 July, 20178 yr by bigjohn

2 hours ago, bigjohn said:

 

Yup diesel DSG has DMF

 

If it is a tappet - once apon a time you could use and engine oil flush (Wynns etc) before an oil change  , not sure in this modern DPF world though as the oil used is critical.

 

Now there is a thought - did they use the correct oil when changing the turbo, this is important!

 

I'd take it back to where you had the work done to check it out. Replacing the EGR/turbo is major work and the exhaust side will have been disturbed. An exhaust manifold leak noise not always obvious - if near the port can sound like a "tap" or loud "click"

 

NB If it was a dealer did the apply the VAG cheat fix? This changes the sound of the engine

 

There is a lot of talk about flushing engines when this happens. Will have to investigate. 

 

Its was a VAG specialist that did the work on the Turbo/EGR and I have to ask if they did use LL3 oil to rule that out. 

 

I have checked with thr the dealer who serviced the car the Friday before it broke the Turbo and EGR and they tell me as per my instructions it's not been software changed for EA189 and so has another dealer confirmed this from the computer. 

 

Also checking with the forum my software version is the same before and after all works and not the version it should be if it was software fixed. 

 

 

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, gav_is_con said:

There is a lot of talk about flushing engines when this happens. Will have to investigate. 

 

Its was a VAG specialist that did the work on the Turbo/EGR and I have to ask if they did use LL3 oil to rule that out. 

 

I have checked with thr the dealer who serviced the car the Friday before it broke the Turbo and EGR and they tell me as per my instructions it's not been software changed for EA189 and so has another dealer confirmed this from the computer. 

 

Also checking with the forum my software version is the same before and after all works and not the version it should be if it was software fixed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What caused the turbo to fail?

4 hours ago, bigjohn said:

 

What caused the turbo to fail?

EGR failed was replaced. Test drive showed no boost. Hoses checked ok and excess movement found in turbo. That was also replaced. Cause may/may not have been caused by EGR failing possible back pressure. 

 

Taking car to be checked Friday hopefully. 

7 minutes ago, gav_is_con said:

EGR failed was replaced. Test drive showed no boost. Hoses checked ok and excess movement found in turbo. That was also replaced. Cause may/may not have been caused by EGR failing possible back pressure. 

 

Taking car to be checked Friday hopefully. 

 

I'm suspicious - I presume turbo was working before the EGR was replaced? Excess movement would have to be really bad to show no boost !

 

 

Edited 12 July, 20178 yr by bigjohn

A common characteristic of the CR140 and CR170 engine.

 

My CR140 has done it from new (2011), I'm now on 124,000 miles.

 

Doesn't do it every day and it can be hard to hear it from inside the car with the windows closed but I've heard it on lots of diesel engined VAG cars of the same era. It always disappears within half a mile or so.

 

I wouldn't worry. Now you've experienced some issues with the car your confidence in it has been dented. You will now be much more sensitive to new or pre-existing noises and traits.

1 hour ago, bigjohn said:

 

I'm suspicious - I presume turbo was working before the EGR was replaced? Excess movement would have to be really bad to show no boost !

 

 

I will try and paint the picture of events. 

Friday oil and filter service at Skods franchise over 10 miles away. Car collected and delivered to my home. I drove a mile or 2 locally immediately after the car was returned around 5pm. 

 

Car remaiked parked for all weekend from memory. 

 

Monday am 5.45 2 streets away climbing a small incline car faults coil and maybe EML on,also power loss including that tapping noise,I started this thread with. Carried on half a mile to the petrol station stop and start the engine. Think fault stayed. I drove several miles in limp without Turbo power on the motorway and at the next junction came off and took the roads home slowly. Parked up near home. Called AA patrol.

 

07.20 VW Assist sent by AA, plugs it in and says it's the EGR. Tests some element of it still works a flap maybe and recommends garage. I told him where I would be taking it and drove it a mile home. 

 

Lunch time drove it to the VAG Indy garage about 10 miles away. 

 

VAG Indy confirmed EGR failed recommend replacement, the next day 

 

Receipt states following. Investigate EML and glow plug. Confirmed fault. Carried out diagnostics 2 faults in memory. 1 fault with excessive flow suspected EGR blocked. Using MBV's checked signal. All ok at time of test. Requires new EGR cooler and rechecking.

Customer authorised replacement. 

Renewed coolant tested ok on test, however on road test noticed Turbo inop  

Carried out diagnostic test 1 fault with boost pressure regulation. 

Checked all boost pipes and all ok. 

Removed boost pipe and checked impeller and found exessive movement.  Requires new turbo and rechecking.

Informed customer and customer authorised to change turbo and oil. 

Replaced turbo and tested all ok at time of test. 

Fault codes from the VCDS print. 4806 EGR system excessive flow date 26.6.2017 12.05. The date the car went to Indy however there was a fault when VW Assist checked too. Maybe the time increments. 

 

5171 Boost pressure regulation P0299 00 237 control range not reached 23.06.2017 16.15 

importantly this fault whilst on the way back from the Skoda franchise on the Friday!!

 

Since having the car back and taking it out to work. The car has shown this new noise every time on the last 3 trips in the morning. Nearly at the same part of journey. 

I drive in complete silence no radio until about 15 mins into journey on motorway. I listen to the sweet sound of the engine and more the DSG changing super fast 1-2....3.....4 the engine just hums and buzzes cant hear any clatter pre this issue the engine is quiet compared to the PD 105 tractor I also own. 

 

 

 

Edited 12 July, 20178 yr by gav_is_con
Spelling

1 hour ago, silver1011 said:

A common characteristic of the CR140 and CR170 engine.

 

My CR140 has done it from new (2011), I'm now on 124,000 miles.

 

Doesn't do it every day and it can be hard to hear it from inside the car with the windows closed but I've heard it on lots of diesel engined VAG cars of the same era. It always disappears within half a mile or so.

 

I wouldn't worry. Now you've experienced some issues with the car your confidence in it has been dented. You will now be much more sensitive to new or pre-existing noises and traits.

@silver1011 I am sure you are spot on with your diagnosis of me and indeed the car. However I cannot find any other claims to back this up on Google/other forums. 

I need to be absolutely sure we are talking about the same noise. It really had only just commenced in my ownership and approx 2-4K that's been added to the car as stated in the above reply. Yes I am likely to be super sensitive, but I don't think car and I have spent enough miles together, however I think I have gotten used to how it drives by now. This is definitely new since the breakdown. So I have linked it as a cause. Found a website that may back up a theory of mine and perhaps others 

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/symptoms-of-a-bad-or-failing-exhaust-manifold-gasket_2

Did they ascertain what caused the turbo to fail ? They new turbo could l go the same way unless they find the cause , I'd be wary of using it until it's sorted

55 minutes ago, peterposh said:

Did they ascertain what caused the turbo to fail ? They new turbo could l go the same way unless they find the cause , I'd be wary of using it until it's sorted

They blamed the EGR. I have put my faith in the Indy like we all have to at some point. I do really hope that does not come back to haunt me. Car is going back in for oil and filter post Turbo tomorrow(approx 650 miles done) and also review the cold start noise. 

21 hours ago, gav_is_con said:

@silver1011 I am sure you are spot on with your diagnosis of me and indeed the car. However I cannot find any other claims to back this up on Google/other forums. 

I need to be absolutely sure we are talking about the same noise. It really had only just commenced in my ownership and approx 2-4K that's been added to the car as stated in the above reply. Yes I am likely to be super sensitive, but I don't think car and I have spent enough miles together, however I think I have gotten used to how it drives by now. This is definitely new since the breakdown. So I have linked it as a cause. Found a website that may back up a theory of mine and perhaps others 

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/symptoms-of-a-bad-or-failing-exhaust-manifold-gasket_2

 

It may be indeed be a different cause.

 

The tapping noise I have had sounds very much like the tappets on the Ford 1.3 Durotec pushrod engine found in the older Fiesta's and MkI Ka, albeit quieter.

 

It can be concerning as it definitely sounds mechanical and metal-to-metal.

 

I go for a walk at dinnertime around the estate close to the office, I can recognise a VAG CR engine from behind before it passes me, the tapping is pretty unique.

35 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

 

It may be indeed be a different cause.

 

The tapping noise I have had sounds very much like the tappets on the Ford 1.3 Durotec pushrod engine found in the older Fiesta's and MkI Ka, albeit quieter.

 

It can be concerning as it definitely sounds mechanical and metal-to-metal.

 

I go for a walk at dinnertime around the estate close to the office, I can recognise a VAG CR engine from behind before it passes me, the tapping is pretty unique.

I very occasionally hear a lifter tapping on mine on start-up, done it since I bought it nearly new, fixing it is sure to cause more harm than leaving it though. 

 

Its just the slack in the valvetrain you can hear until the lifter gets some oil pressure in it.

Edited 13 July, 20178 yr by SuperbTWM

1 hour ago, silver1011 said:

 

It may be indeed be a different cause.

 

The tapping noise I have had sounds very much like the tappets on the Ford 1.3 Durotec pushrod engine found in the older Fiesta's and MkI Ka, albeit quieter.

 

It can be concerning as it definitely sounds mechanical and metal-to-metal.

 

I go for a walk at dinnertime around the estate close to the office, I can recognise a VAG CR engine from behind before it passes me, the tapping is pretty unique.

Well I have not personally driven the car for 2 days from cold as I have used the Octy and left my wife to use it locally. I do remember the fiesta clatter from the 90's maybe a mark 2 fiesta perhaps. What I can't remember is if mine sounds the same for that 5 seconds in the morning. One thought that came to mind is maybe my car has not been right since purchase and the breakdown and subsequent fix has made it the norm as per all CR engines?

You say the noise at dinner time you hear from other cars is the same. Do recall it's not on startup for me it's once driven every time, a couple of streets away. Although as I am hyper sensitive I recon the tappets sounded at work the other day at 4pm. Lol. 

Thabks for the assurance though. I will update a new problem shortly below. 

1 hour ago, SuperbTWM said:

I very occasionally hear a lifter tapping on mine on start-up, done it since I bought it nearly new, fixing it is sure to cause more harm than leaving it though. 

 

Its just the slack in the valvetrain you can hear until the lifter gets some oil pressure in it.

I would tend to agree what you describe would be lifter and oil pressure. But as I said to @silver1011 mine happens down the road within 1-2 mins and I don't exactly start and drive off. 

The car is booked in tomorrow at the VAG Indy for the oil and filter and look over anyway. 

I have remembered I parked on the slope of my drive for a while and if anything that would shove the oil right to the back of the sump. However it's been on the level ground too for several days since the weekend and issue continues. 

 

Another new noise is only heard inside the car coming from the dash but more like the engine bay, is more like I have some crickets inside the engine bay as the engine idles, Kinda goes when you rev up slowly. You know the noise in fields or on holiday, that started this week. I managed to record it, not sure how to share here sorry as it's voice notes on iOS. I will play it for the garage thankfully it can be heard on the phone clearly. 

 

1 hour ago, gav_is_con said:

The car is booked in tomorrow at the VAG Indy for the oil and filter and look over anyway. 

I have remembered I parked on the slope of my drive for a while and if anything that would shove the oil right to the back of the sump. However it's been on the level ground too for several days since the weekend and issue continues. 

 

Another new noise is only heard inside the car coming from the dash but more like the engine bay, is more like I have some crickets inside the engine bay as the engine idles, Kinda goes when you rev up slowly. You know the noise in fields or on holiday, that started this week. I managed to record it, not sure how to share here sorry as it's voice notes on iOS. I will play it for the garage thankfully it can be heard on the phone clearly. 

 

 

Is something rubbing on the bulkhead. The EGR valve and turbo is between the engine and bulkhead. Has something not been tightened up after the work was done?

Took in it for a once over. Tech went out in car with me. Obviously it does not do it once warmed up. The other "cricket" noise was not present either. No errors logged. I also checked last weekend and nothing logged. 

 

They want it overnight to try and reproduce it. So maybe next weekend when the oil change is due anyway. 

 

I heard a Citroen C4 this evening driving up the Close and it reminded me how noisy they sound on first acceleration then quieten off and this is a couple of year old modern common rail surely. 

 

So can anyone confirm the CR is generally noisy from say 1.5-2k upon initial load. I am now thinking there is some noise present all the time. But more noisy for 2 seconds in the morning once only upon accelerating. 

Do you have a recording of the sound?

 

Any noise I've heard from mine is probably in the same ball park as silver's - it's always done it and doesn't seem to cause harm.

 

Thought I'd read it was something to do with the water pump; which (at least anecdotally) would make sense for mine, as the noise changed a bit after the cambelt/water pump change

8 minutes ago, Solarstorm said:

Do you have a recording of the sound?

 

Any noise I've heard from mine is probably in the same ball park as silver's - it's always done it and doesn't seem to cause harm.

 

Thought I'd read it was something to do with the water pump; which (at least anecdotally) would make sense for mine, as the noise changed a bit after the cambelt/water pump change

I tried to record it the other day and it failed. Will try again tomorrow. Cambelt kit was changed just before purchase 1 day. Again I find it more than coincidence the tappet noise happened exactly at the point the EGR/Turbo failed and appears to happen everyday around the same part of my journey, since the repair. (Happened in other places too, those journeys less frequent). 

 

So many thoughts crossed my mind dodgy EGR, but it's the same part number as yours. 

 

Engine has been flushed with oil changes and fuel system treatment or something of sorts by previous owners garage.  

I did a voice note recording this morning and in cleaning up the recording I deleted the important part. So another try is needed. It could be clearly heard with headphones on anyway. 

18 hours ago, gav_is_con said:

I did a voice note recording this morning and in cleaning up the recording I deleted the important part. So another try is needed. It could be clearly heard with headphones on anyway. 

Now you get the warts and all recording home until the motorway. Takes about 5mins

noise specifically heard accelerating at 2.24m and again at 3.05m maybe 4.38mins too. It is clear on full volume on the iPhone and also listening on the laptop with earphones. I have to confess the car is very well insulated and the low cabin noise has muffled the noise I heard in the cabin myself to the iPhone on the passenger seat. 

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AEBvQyW4BjBevFo