Winter Tyres - worth it?

[Paul]

Our Yeti has had Nexen N'Priz 4 Season Tyres on for nearly 2 years, they get mixed reviews but I've found them great, still got 5mm tread on the front after 20k, the front outer shoulders are starting to wear (lots of off camber corner where we live!!)

4 Season or Cross Climate tyres all the way. It's just the biting of the bullet to buy 4 tyres at once!

[Expatman]

3 hours ago, Paulq said:

This has been a good debate.  I actually managed to stop the order I placed for the full winters as it appeared that the consensus was for Cross Climate or All Season tyres given the relatively mild nature of the seasons we have.

 

I'm now confused with the choices.  If I go for an 'All Season' such as the much-lauded Goodyear Vector 4Seasons apparently that's different to a 'Cross Climate' such as the Michelin Cross Climates.

 

From the tests in earlier posts, it doesn't look like there's a great deal of difference in them performance wise. 

Honest John's advice is that Michelin Cross Climates not only give good all year round performance but also provide a quiet, comfortable ride. If you are going for an all weather tyre then just as well enjoy a quiet comfortable ride as well. 

[Zib]

3 hours ago, Paulq said:

This has been a good debate.  I actually managed to stop the order I placed for the full winters as it appeared that the consensus was for Cross Climate or All Season tyres given the relatively mild nature of the seasons we have.

 

I'm now confused with the choices.  If I go for an 'All Season' such as the much-lauded Goodyear Vector 4Seasons apparently that's different to a 'Cross Climate' such as the Michelin Cross Climates.

 

From the tests in earlier posts, it doesn't look like there's a great deal of difference in them performance wise. 

 

If I have understood correctly, Michelin Cross Climates are made from a summer tyre compound with a tread that can deal with snow, hence qualifying for the snowflake symbol  Goodyear Vector 4Seasons are made from an 'all-weather' compound, so in theory could be marginally better at lower temperatures.  Manufacturer's descriptions are not directly comparable, and even independent comparative tests may not be particularly helpful unless for your precise make, model and type, since there are so many factors at play.

[Paulq]

That's my understanding as well.  I suspect, in reality, there's very little between them apart from the £20+ per tyre price tag.  As I have had very good experiences with Goodyear Winter Tyres previously I think I'm going to stop deliberating and hit the button on 4 new Vector 4Seasons.

 

There are other, cheaper options (considerably so actually) but the consensus in reviews seems to be that these 2 are pretty decent.

 

If it snows the Yeti should be pretty unstoppable with those on.

 

I actually don't feel so bad incurring that cost as it will prevent me from having to shell out to get them changed over twice a year and I know I am pretty much covered for anything Mother Nature can chuck at us.

 

(I hope......) 

Edited 20 September, 2017 by Paulq

[logiclee]

Although Cross Climates are a "Summer Tyre" they use a hybrid compound that stops the tyre surface becoming rigid when temperatures fall below 7 degrees as most Summer Tyres do.

 

This gives them excellent cold weather performance as well as  the tread pattern designed to aid grip in Snow.

 

Lee

[Kenrw8]

20 hours ago, kenfowler3966 said:

16k doesn't sound that good?

Leased Greenline went back on all original tyres at 43k, with at least another 5k left on front.

 

Don't forget with 120 hp and with no traction control I often get wheel spin especially on some road surfaces and in damp road conditions.

 

Have checked the fronts and they've worn by about 1.6mm they've not reached the 3.2 mm marker. So your right 16k is low and if I swap the front and rear I should get at least 30-40k. Possible more if I drive with a bit more care. And tend to change before the first marker, I like to have more than the 1.6mm minimum, 5k is too low for me.

 

Also do about 8k a year so 30k ish 3-4 years is the max  would be the normal for me to change, in this case looks like 24k or 2-3 years.

Edited 21 September, 2017 by Kenrw8

[freedie]

10 hours ago, Paulq said:

 

If it snows the Yeti should be pretty unstoppable with those on.

 

 

 

Slightly worrying...

[Kenrw8]

Whatever you decide I'd advise getting one that are 3 peak rated.

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=125

[Sad555]

If you can get 45,000 from the 4seasons that would be the tyre for me ,I thought I was doing well with 20,000  on Dunlop sp on the fronts.

[Paulq]

I ended up ordering the 4Seasons today so thanks for all the input.  Am confident they will be very good whatever the weather. 

[Expatman]

On 21/09/2017 at 21:54, Paulq said:

I ended up ordering the 4Seasons today so thanks for all the input.  Am confident they will be very good whatever the weather. 

I would be really interested to hear how you get on with the 4season tyres, particularly in regard to ride comfort and cabin noise. Not sure what tyres you have at present but a comparison would be useful to those of us wondering what tyres to get.

[Paulq]

Sure. When people are helpful I think it's the least I can do to reciprocate.

 

I have Michelin Primacy 3's on it at the moment that I am going to try and get the garage to take off me and sell as part worns in exchange for fitting the 4Seasons gratis. One of my very few gripes with the Yeti is the degree of road noise so, like you, I am curious to see what if any difference they make.

 

They are due to land next week so I'll get them put on at some point in the next few weeks and report back after running them for a little while.

[Expatman]

9 hours ago, Paulq said:

Sure. When people are helpful I think it's the least I can do to reciprocate.

 

I have Michelin Primacy 3's on it at the moment that I am going to try and get the garage to take off me and sell as part worns in exchange for fitting the 4Seasons gratis. One of my very few gripes with the Yeti is the degree of road noise so, like you, I am curious to see what if any difference they make.

 

They are due to land next week so I'll get them put on at some point in the next few weeks and report back after running them for a little while.

Thanks - I noticed a big drop in road noise changing from Continentals to Goodyear EfficientGrips. So await your findings with interest as I will change to All Seasons at some stage

[pinkpanther]

I realise you've now made a decision on 4seasons, but thought I 'd post up my thoughts.

 

I'd run my previous (2012) 2WD 2.0 TDi Yeti on 16" steel rims / 205/55/16 winter tyres November - March and the standard 17" wheels at all other times. The car was supplied with Dunlop SP01 when new. These lasted ~30K miles and I then made a switch to Goodyear Efficient Grip performance. These were quieter and were noticeably better in the wet.

 

I then switched to a new (in 2014) 4WD TDi Yeti and for the first year ran the standard 17" rims / Pirelli P Zero Rosso tyres, before switching to my 16" steels rims / winter tyres November - March. The Pirelli's proved to be very hard wearing, but were ready for changing at just under 40K miles (2 mm tread remaining all round). I'd read the reviews on Michelin Cross Climates and, following a Cost-co discount offer, opted for x4 of these. I offset the cost by selling my old 16" steel rims / 205/55/16 winter tyres to an Octavia Scout owner (on here).

 

The car has now covered 2 winters / 18K miles on the Cross Climates and they have proved to be quiet, grippy in the wet and virtually as good as the 16" winter tyres in the snow. Admittedly we haven't had a great deal of snow over the last 2 winters, but the car / Cross Climates have coped with any and all weather conditions.

 

The tyres are wearing evenly and it would appear I'll get similar wear from these (30-40k miles) as the previous "summer" tyres.

 

Looking at comparative reviews it appears the Cross Climates and 4Seasons are fairly evenly matched.

 

I certainly don't miss jacking up the car and switching the wheels over twice a year and will aim to stick with this type of "all season" tyre in the future.

 

A family member has a 2WD Peugeot 2008, which has "grip control". This system is claimed to offer better grip in poor conditions, but I suspect this is more to do with the Goodyear 4Season tyres fitted as standard

 

My car in the snow (on Cross Climates):

 

 

Edited 23 September, 2017 by pinkpanther

[grayson]

Dunlops - shudder. My last Yeti had these and never , in 46 years of driving, have I experienced poorer wet road grip on normal  road car, let alone one weighing 1500kg +   . They were utterly abysmal and even with lots of tread left would aquaplane as much as my 550 kg Caterham on semi slicks ,Kumhoes transformed  the Yeti .

[Paulq]

@Expatman

 

A short update for you as promised.  I have now run the 4Seasons for a week or so and a few hundred miles on motorways and around town trips.  I'd summarise them as follows:

 

1 - I had some initial issues with the standard of fitting them.  Firstly the place that did it simply didn't balance the front two at all and also inflated all 4 with different pressures.  However, I digress.

 

2 - My immediate reaction is that they are far more compliant than the tyres they replaced.  Potholes seemed less jarring and there's a greater sense of being 'on the road'.  Wet weather grip is astonishing.

 

3 - Road noise is not markedly reduced.

 

4 - There has been a slight drop off in mpg but nothing to get too worried about when contrasted with the increased grip and protection.

 

5 - Since I fitted them I have had an issue with the TPMS becoming rather troublesome.  Post fitting it went off virtually every time I used the car so it was hard not to draw the initial conclusion that maybe the seal or the valve on one of them was also a botch job.  However, I have reset the TPMS and ensured the tyres are all at the correct pressures and it's now been 3 days since it came on.  If it re-occurs I'll leave it unset for a week and monitor the tyre pressures to rule out leaks; then take it to Skoda if the tyre pressures are stable.

 

I really hope this isn't another minor niggle with the car along with the boot locking and AC having a mind of their own.

 

So I am happy I bought them but the real test will be in much lower temps and snow/ice if we get any.

[Expatman]

17 hours ago, Paulq said:

@Expatman

 

A short update for you as promised.  I have now run the 4Seasons for a week or so and a few hundred miles on motorways and around town trips.  I'd summarise them as follows:

 

1 - I had some initial issues with the standard of fitting them.  Firstly the place that did it simply didn't balance the front two at all and also inflated all 4 with different pressures.  However, I digress.

 

2 - My immediate reaction is that they are far more compliant than the tyres they replaced.  Potholes seemed less jarring and there's a greater sense of being 'on the road'.  Wet weather grip is astonishing.

 

3 - Road noise is not markedly reduced.

 

4 - There has been a slight drop off in mpg but nothing to get too worried about when contrasted with the increased grip and protection.

 

5 - Since I fitted them I have had an issue with the TPMS becoming rather troublesome.  Post fitting it went off virtually every time I used the car so it was hard not to draw the initial conclusion that maybe the seal or the valve on one of them was also a botch job.  However, I have reset the TPMS and ensured the tyres are all at the correct pressures and it's now been 3 days since it came on.  If it re-occurs I'll leave it unset for a week and monitor the tyre pressures to rule out leaks; then take it to Skoda if the tyre pressures are stable.

 

I really hope this isn't another minor niggle with the car along with the boot locking and AC having a mind of their own.

 

So I am happy I bought them but the real test will be in much lower temps and snow/ice if we get any.

Thanks, much as reviews of these tyres have found and certainly makes me more inclined to change to All Season tyres. Only concern is road noise but that depends on how noisy your Primacy tyres were in comparison with the Goodyear EfficientGrips on my Yeti, I have found them to be much quieter than previous Continentals.

[HowardBury]

Auto Express have tested full winter tyres as well as all-season tyres, and their verdict was that:

Our verdict

This test confirms all-season tyres are a compromise all year round, with our six contenders outperformed by a winter pattern, and left trailing by a summer tyre in the dry. Still, if you don’t want to swap between winter and summer tyres, our all-season pick is the Goodyear Vector 4Seasons, ahead of Nokian’s Weatherproof. Michelin’s CrossClimate fared well, particularly in the dry. Vredestein and Hankook are decent budget options, but the Star is a poor choice.

 

Test write-up here http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/92873/all-season-tyre-test-201617-results-by-category

 

Winter tyre test here:  http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/winter-driving-special/93097/winter-tyres-test-2017-best-tyre-brands-reviewed-and

[ejstubbs]

On 9/20/2017 at 18:54, Paulq said:

I'm now confused with the choices.  If I go for an 'All Season' such as the much-lauded Goodyear Vector 4Seasons apparently that's different to a 'Cross Climate' such as the Michelin Cross Climates.

 

From the tests in earlier posts, it doesn't look like there's a great deal of difference in them performance wise. 

 

For the avoidance of confusion: "CrossClimate" is Michelin's brand name for their all season tyres, equivalent to Goodyear's "4Seasons" and Nokian's "Weatherproof".  The generic term is "all season": search for "all season tyres" online and you'll get all the aforementioned three turning up, and likely other manufacturers' products in that same market/specification/performance space as well.

 

Michelin and Goodyear may have started their respective product developments from different directions - Michelin supposedly having "all seasoned" a summer tyre whereas Goodyear started from a winter tyre - but the design goals for the final products in both cases were the same.

[Ootohere]

Then to confuse more google 'All Weather Tyres',  because some 'All Season Tyres' as described in car brochures as fitted are not suitable for safe 'Winter / Cold Weather Driving, and are not 'Winter Tyres' for some European Countries / Areas where as the CrossClimate Summer Tyres are Certificated.

[The Plumber]

Ran the original Cross Climates in the 225/50 R17 on our first V40 Cross Country D2 for around 17k miles before I traded the car in for our current T5 AWD version.  Overall very pleased with them, particularly in warmer summer temps, were they were far more like a summer tyre over the original Goodyear 4 Season I'd experienced a few years back on my son's car. Although I noticed towards the end of ownership the levels of grip started to decline with just about 4mm of tread remaining on the front.

 

Noticed Michelin have launched an updated version, so I wounder if this is and area they have improved on.

 

Yet to decide whether to prematurely replace the summer tyres with all season on the T5, as I did on the D2; I don't drive so much in the winter months these days and I can pretty much choose to stay at home if the weather is poor. Although its good to see a much improved range of tyres to choose from. When the Yeti was launched back in 2009 there were no all season options in 225/50 R17 until Goodyear made the original 4 Season tyre.

 

 

TP

 

[ejstubbs]

On 10/10/2017 at 13:53, Headinawayoffski said:

some 'All Season Tyres' as described in car brochures as fitted are not suitable for safe 'Winter / Cold Weather Driving, and are not 'Winter Tyres' for some European Countries / Areas where as the CrossClimate Summer Tyres are Certificated.

 

1. CrossClimates are not "summer" tyres - the design was based on a summer tyre but they are all season tyres.

 

2. You need the Three Peak Snowflake (3PSF) logo:

to be legal in winter conditions in many European countries.  It seems to be surprisingly difficult to find out whether a given tyre carries that, at least when shopping online.  The older "M + S" logo won't usually cut it if you get stopped by the authorities - although many 3PSF logo-ed tyres also carry that one (for nostalgia's sake, I guess).

[Ootohere]

There are 'All Season' tyres that are not Winter Tyres. Even Skoda using 'All Weather' for tyres crap in winter in many conditions that some experience.

So 'All Seasons'  so called a that are ctually crap in winter,

a Superb buyer- owner had a long thread where he wanted Winters, thought that the All Seasons or as Skoda called them 'All Wethers'

were Winter Certificated and they were not, as he was told on here before the car ever was delivered.

It is a pity Skoda UK or CZ does not offer Winter Certificated tyres as an Option to UK customers at delivery.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/423163-are-all-wether-tyres-winter-legal-in-eu 

See 2nd last post page 1.

 

 

Michelin did their own press releases, published media packs, and not just in French, the guys in the Dundee Factory speak good English, 

and how ever you want to call them, they were the ones saying they were Summer Tyres and Winter Certificated.

Good enough for many, if 'Based on' suits the story, then good.

Michelin wanted people thinking, good in summer, safe to use all year, winter safety as well, and usable in most of Continental Europe in Winter.

Michelin CrossClimate launched is this a game changer - Tyre Reviews.mhtml

Edited 12 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[The Plumber]

As I understood it, your bog standard summer tyre that comes as standard fit to most cars these days, can be referred to by industry as all season/weather, as they are designed for all year use (but not necessarily effective).

 

Have noticed that some manufacturers are now understanding we don't all drive on motorways and there are drivers like myself who reguarly drive on narrow and sometimes more challenging rural roads, so are fitting more all season (with 3PSF), or full winters as standard, such as the Panda 4x4 and Peugeot 3008, which offer more grip. 

 

Have recently fitted full winters to our BM and while its still a little warm, the car has far more traction than it did on the factory Bridgestone W rated summer tyres; can now get out of the works car park without rear wheel spin (its a grass field) and not have the back end step out in the wet on rail crossings (joys of rwd   ).

 

This is an issue I took up with Skoda many years ago, regard not offering tyres that work more effectively with their 4x4 systems, this fell on deaf ears.

 

Even our AWD Volvo has factory fitted Conti Sport 5 tyres, with will be as much use as a chocolate fireguard come freezing winter weather   .

 

 

TP

[Ootohere]

Full UK Winters are not Full Norway / Finland & other World Region 'Winter' Tyres,  some call them Traction Tyres, or even not much traction tyres,

all just words used as per different languages, and get many confused.

 

Panda 4x4 or Pug 2008 Full Winters as you call them do OK, can cope with Mud, and yet there are M+S or All Weather tyres that are better in Mud and not much cope in some Winter / Snow conditions, 

Michelin CrossClimate are fine as a jack of all trades as other All Season / All Weather etc are, but then always a compromise one way or another in Extreme Conditions, were Snow Tyres, Mud Tyres etc are available but maybe not so good on black top.