The story of the famous DQ200 clutch slip...

[H@@S]

Thank god that there are people who still do not recognise a faulty dsg. Provides opportunities for selling the car. Lets think the samenway as vw dealership!

 

@Offski dont know the numbers for faulty dsg’s with dry clutches but the way you picture it is not correct. Would allmost think its reliable? Been at TVS several times where replacement of clutches is more rule than exception haha.

 

 

[Ootohere]

I have a mate that has been an Automatic Gearbox specialist for a long time haven started when his father owned the business, 

and i do know a lot of VW Technicians, and specialists and had a 'few' DSG's, quite a few actually.

Even had Clutch Packs from HP in Australia & Software from them.

 

I have been recommending TVS for a few years now, and members here and others have been to them.

Long enough now that VW Group / Skoda can not get their act together.

Many vehicle models with DQ200 DSG's but i jusr concern my self with the cars i am interested in.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/315115-service-campaign-dq200-dsg-oil-changeecu-update-fabia-in-uk 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/294051-cave-cthe-just-reply-please-if-you-have-had-an-engine-replaced 

 

Edited 16 September, 2018 by Offski

[H@@S]

A lot of early worn down clutches come from the fact of driving daily in traffic jams...stop and go traffic.... every go is a piece of wear since the dsg is programmed by default to switch to second gear immediately...nobody with a manual would leave in 2nd....shifting up to 7th gear just driving 70/80 km/u. By modifying the stock software this can be overcome....costs 400 €....but even sometimes then damage is allready done to the glaced or worn down clutch...to overcome and replace another 1200 eu. Its just what you determine as being a fault...i think this is !

[Ootohere]

You drive one, maybe drive different ones, since they are used in 48 applications and have different software you must know how some are quickly into 2nd, then 3rd, and then even 5th by 40 MPH. Not an issue for many driving in towns and traffic, driving taxis even.

Dropping some are in 2nd and only into 1st at near stop.

You have a 7 speed box though.  in 7th by 60 mph even.    How it is, and it works, only sometimes it does not, but that is the issue.

 

The Boxes Evolved, 7 speed Wet,  6 & 7 speeds with coasting function, Autohold etc.   The old tech and softwear is old obviously and can be flawed.

Even the new stuff is flawed in some instances.

 

http://hp.net.au/home/product/harding-performance-dsg-software-7-speed-dq200

 

Harding Performance_TVS DSG Software - 7 speed DQ200 - Harding Performance.mhtml

Edited 16 September, 2018 by Offski

[xman]

I always have a giggle watching yummy mummies reversing into a shopping space with a dual clutch automatic....

Lurch... stop....lurch....stop...lurch...

 

Edited 16 September, 2018 by xman

[Ootohere]

Just look at the problems that you can get in 1st gear when you have a 1.5TSI a manual box & then drivers with lots of experience are told the issue is them and not the software that was introduced to get low emissions and fuel use,  they are coming up with software updates though,

'Work in progress' it seems.

Then with a 1.0TSI in a bigger heavier car than a Fabia,  a 7 speed DSG is quite a good choice to have.

Edited 16 September, 2018 by Offski

[xman]

I have yet another theory about the 1.5tsi kangaroo feature and the mysterious inability of VAG to fix it quickly.

 

Could be that mods required to give enough torque at idle also violate the existing old NEDC certified CO2 performance which relied heavily on extended idling periods. Do engine software mods need emission tests to be rerun before they can be released?

 

WLTP models won't be so difficult as they probably fixed it for that.

[ettlz]

45 minutes ago, xman said:

I have yet another theory about the 1.5tsi kangaroo feature and the mysterious inability of VAG to fix it quickly.

 

Getting a bit offtopic, but... I think the 1.5TSI "nosedive" (and to a lesser extent on the 1.2TSI) is due to the unhelpful 500rpm extra revs the ECU adds on automatically* as the clutch pedal comes up, just before clutch bites. Thus, with gentle accelerator pressure, what was a 1200rpm set pullaway gas becomes 1700rpm. The driver thinks, "OK, well I didn't ask for it but this should be sufficient to pull away", and slips the clutch to move the car until fully engaged. Trouble is at around 3mph, the ECU hard cancels the boost with the accelerator pedal still under light pressure. The power demand plummets, with the clutch fully engaged, resulting in hard engine braking. Obviously this will be stiffer on the 1.5.

 

I've found around certain speeds and pedal positions this can hit an oscillatory mode.

 

These cars seem to like 'sprightly' pullaways; in my experience they don't like going slow and tend to be a bit twitchy. You have to balance the clutch and accelerator very carefully (easier said than done because there's bugger-all feel with these pedals); in particular gradually increasing the throttle pressure as the car begins to move.

 

*No idea why it does this or what they were thinking when they programmed it. To get it on boost, so it feels livelier when the clutch is engaged? Pointless in my opinion, the 4-cylinder TSIs have more than enough torque for a smooth, progressive pullaway at 1200rpm.

Edited 16 September, 2018 by ettlz

[Jason_Nevins]

@All I had my vehicle back in the garage and they replaced the clutch again, so it looks like there is a newer one than the one from April which was delivered after several months. The car now shifts very smoothly, but I'm not sure if it will get any better. The factory warranty has now expired, let's see how they handle it next time. 

 

P.S. Within 2 years = 3 new clutches KM 40'000. 

[krigl]

Do you have any data or part number of the new clutch? Also what car do you have?

[Jason_Nevins]

@krigl VW Touran 1.8 TSI 2016 DQ200, can i check with VCDS? I just got told the new partnumber starts with an F instead a G, the G has been released in May 2018, its not in alphabetical order.

[krigl]

On 19/04/2018 at 14:50, krigl said:

So anyone done the TPI yet?

Any feedback?

 

My car had it done this week and from research I could gather, i have got the part 0AM198142G fitted instead of 0AM198142F (TPI), because ETKA showed this part.

Software version is from the OBD11 scan, the same. They said, that they did the SW upgrade, we will see.

Has anyone any info of the SW version that should be applied?

 

You meant F at the end... Please come back and review the new clutch pack after 2kkm. In this time it should start slipping again, but I hope that will not happen to you.

[Jason_Nevins]

I had my car over a week at VW and during that time I received the new Skoda Octavia 1.5 tsi, which probably had the same clutch and had similar issues.

 

Wow great well done thats probably the same clutch i got too, from which country are you from and what car do you have. Please share TPI number too.

 

 

Edited 16 October, 2018 by Jason_Nevins

[krigl]

Read through this thread from about page 6. forward. All info is in there. Fabia 1.2 tsi 110 dsg.

[H@@S]

@Jason_Nevins it runs very smoothly now but you are not sure if it gets any better...this means everything is as it should be? Or still issues?

 

so the good clutch is the F one late 2018?

 

hope it is sorted now. Keep us informed over the next 5k km, i hope the happiness lasts and a final solution is found for these ****ty clutch issues. Could resolve my issue as well!

[PekoSI]

Funny enough the clutch on our Fabia is not problematic anymore. The slipping stopped during the summer so I waited for colder months since I was sure it'll come back but no. Was just at the dealers with Octavia for annual service and they acknowledged the TPI for Fabia so if the slipping occurs again the clutch will be changed under warranty. 

[H@@S]

In summer my issues are less present as well....december now and slip returned with the temperature drop and cold humid mornings....aaaarchhhh!!! Teated with odb11 and even visible in charts.

 

any news on people with latest type clutches?

Edited 4 December, 2018 by H@@S

[H@@S]

The graphs show engine rpm versus drive axle rpm on clutch in use. The spikes where lines do not match is slip!

[krigl]

Go to your DSG Dokter dealer (TVS Enginnering) and try out their tune STG2+. Make sure you get a 30 day return if not satisfied, have a chat with them (I will for sure not go back to OEM SW). Try it, with the way VW is going with this feature, I doubt VW has interest of resolving it, it has been two years already for me and still no improvement on OEM... or sell the car...

[H@@S]

I am already on tvs software for the DSG and engine, even having minimized the microslip timing. What will change with STG2? Even more power from the engine and mods to the engine to reach this....do not know what they will do with the dsg with stage2. They even say there is no 100% solution to this issue.

TVS can even provide dsg changes from dsg7 to dsg6 (4999€!!). Based onused parts! Cost is way too high for a 2011 car to invest in.....

 

indeed selling seems to be the only possible solution! What a waste because the rest of the car is perfectly fine!

[krigl]

I just meant stg2+ for dsg, i would leave the engine as is in your case. I have a revo tune on my car but it is still in 250nm limit of the DQ200 gearbox.

100% solution can not be done, because they cannot alter the core SW of the DSG, only the part that can has maps and other settings on it. In my case it is enough of an improvement to still have the car.

[Jason_Nevins]

I received a new clutch a month ago and its worse, I would rather get the first one again and replace it every 10000km. I drive a vw touran with 40000km and received the 3rd time a new clutch and my warranty is over now

[krigl]

If anybody is interested....

 

After 50 kkm and 2 years of owning a DQ200 I have decided to change the oil and look at the state of it.

 

See pictures of the oil change.

The 1l dark green is the mechatronics hydraulic oil the other one is the new original VW oil. Not much difference between them, the used one is very slightly darker, but pictures just do not do it justice. I have used a syringe to fill it up again.

The gearbox oil was very dark as in the pictures. New one is standard honey yellow see-through transparent color.

 

Life time fill like VW said... WHO ARE YOU KIDDING!!!!!

[H@@S]

Was there any noticable difference before and after the oil change in driving behaviour, and what was your main reason for doing it?

 

Have thought of it as well...but i thought it would be out of desperation hoping to find a solution for the issue....the slip...which is due to the clutch material not the oil...unless your experiment proves differently. Keep us informed.

 

i am back on stock engine sofware but with the dsg tune...still present altough less noticeable! 

 

Final solution will be a different car...no more dsg7 dq200

[H@@S]

No metal in the black oil by the way?