The story of the famous DQ200 clutch slip...

[GeneralPurpose]

I used Underwoods Skoda, in Colchester. I found them to be brilliant. I've dealt with them for over 11 years with no issues. 

 

Regarding your Vrs, I don't know what Skoda are saying about any Vrs vehicles and clutch slip. I'd imagine that if yours has been remapped they will certainly not want to know, as is usual from any manufacturer under those circumstances. Yours is a 7 year old car too but it's worth seeing what the dealer can do, if anything. There may be some other clutch issues relating to your Mk2 Vrs car that are quite different to the Mk3 TSI engined models. I've heard of clutches simply being worn out at 50k miles on the Vrs due to the sort of driving the car has to sustain. Not saying you or anyone else who owns one is to blame, but it's the sort of car that gets ragged a bit. I have replaced a clutch on a Vrs at 120,000 miles, it was completely worn out! But here's the thing...it was the second clutch the car had already had. The first one going out to lunch at 60,000 miles. Again I understood from the owner, that clutch too was completely worn out. So I'm guessing yours is suffering a similar fate and won't be a warranty or recall issue. But as said, it's worth a check at the dealers. Do let us all know how you get on and good luck with that. 

[Ootohere]

Legs1194, welcome.

Your DQ200 is totally different, software etc.

& you have turbo and supercharger under acceleration from 2,800 rpm to 3,500 then turbo only 3,500 up.

Lots going on there with the engine and the DSG, and the engine needs to be running perfect.

 

At 57,000 miles / 6 or 7 years old many twinchargers require a new water pump and supercharger magnetic clutch.

? 

Has yours been replaced, and also 2 new belts fitted?

Has your car got the original engine still?

 

There is a pinned thread at the of the Fabia Mk2 section and many threads on the DQ200 2010-2012 service campaign 34F7 The mineral Oil changed instead of synthetic and the software update.

then on some 2013-2015 DQ200  Service campaign 34H5 a software update.

 

There was a world wide recall 2012/13 just this did not include Europe, which got a Service Campaign & Skoda UK started that May 2014.

If your car had '34F7' carried out there should be a sticker in the Spare Tyre well beside the Build Sticker showing were done and which date.

 

It might show here if outstanding.

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

Ask if it does not show & no sticker in boot or service manual with it showing.

http://skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us 

 

Check, but if it is the Clutch Packs requiring replacing then that will be a cost down to you.

*Remapped / Modified i would not be asking, but then Remapped / Modified Twinchargers are not known to have slipping clutch pack issues, 

and hundreds have been remapped with Stage 1 & 2, You can get uprated Clutch Packs and take the twincharger above 220 bhp.*

 

As to if the Service Campaign was done and the MCU is going get on to Skoda, they extended the warranty in other world regions.

Some 2012 DQ200 never required '34F7', now have a 'White Flashing Spanner' showing, Skoda could not care less, and are not contributing to the cost owners are being required to pay out.  On MCU's some were getting help / a contribution.

Skoda NZ had a proper Service Campaign / Recall.

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign 

 

PS.

I am not sure you do not have some other issue.

Plenty take their 2010/11/12 Twinchargers to the 1/4 mile, sprints, hillclimbs etc.

Are you having the issue in D & S and are you also redlining changing manually.

Do you know the cars history, warranty history, did you have the remap done and by who, and what tyres are on the car.

Do you have the same with TC off?

 

Best post in the Fabia Mk2 section and get assistance there.

 

He was running a CTHE with a tuning box fitted.

& driving like a d!ck IMO while moaning about the DSG and how it behaved.

 

Edited 30 May, 2018 by Offski

[Kobayashi]

11 hours ago, Legs1194 said:

@Estate Man

 

Just read the whole 9 pages. 

I have a vrs mk2, and experience clutch slip at 3/4K revs having pulled from 2k revs in say 4th gear, as these cars have a lot of power in all of the Rev range, the only way it’s drivable is in d just normal town driving.  Or flat out redline in every gear. It seems the car has to much torque and makes it slip once hot in the middle Rev range. 

 

as for warranty it’s a 2011 car with 57k on the clocks so I guess it’s out! 

I’m also from Colchester so only asking as to which dealer you went to and if I’m able to get a new clutch pack I hope. Was there a specific recall for this so I can just call up and ask for it to be done? 

 

It has been remapped so probably out of any goodwill here but worth a try, i have a friend with the same car same power experience the same thing and it’s not fun anymore. 

 

 

 

 

 

When mine was 'custom' Remapped locally they offered to remap the DSG box seperately (mainly to tune down S mode from being so revvy) in the end i decided against it

and dont have a need for S mode anymore. (D is plenty powerful)

 

We settled on the remap a good 10 bhp under other quoted performance centres 198ish.  Not all copy & paste maps are suitable (if that is was what was done...)

 The service campaign on the DSG you defo need to find out if you had that done (sticker in boot will tell you)

 

 

[Ootohere]

With a Revo Stage 1 for a  1.4 TSI 132kw CAVE 2010/2012 owner with one beware take care,

get off the ECU and get a proper remap IMO.

[fabiamc]

@krigl How is your fabia now after tpi? Any slipping?

 

As i mentioned i have slipping especially with 5th gear when car is not fully warmed up even after tpi. Worked for few weeks. Factory wants new video again..

[krigl]

I wanted to wait to complete the 5kkm final remark point of TPI work, but honestly the slipping started already after 1300km driven with the new clutch. I have given up with VW and warranty work for an issue which they are obviously not willing to resolve (more then 8 years manufacturing this gearbox... no words...). After the damned thing started slipping again, I went to have the tuning done again to the DSG and also Revo st.1 for the engine. Due to my testing, the DQ200 acts better if it has more torque load put on it, and slips less in this case. Now after all the tuning has been done, the car is drivable again... The slips are there still, based on the rev counter, but I do not feel them any more in my seat sensor, which is my rear end .  (DISCLAMER... I do not advise anyone to do this, don't blame me if you will not be satisfied!)

 

From my point of view, VW is delaying this issue so the warranty period of two years will be over, to start collecting money for repairs after, regarding this issue. Unfortunately for me, I do a lot of kilometers commuting to work and back and will probably do 70kkm in two years time. And already the car had 3 sets of clutches installed during this time. The first indicator (of being driven in circles by VW) was the part no. of the clutch in their system, the second was the SW update, which was exactly the same as before, so except the new clutch installed, really nothing else was done... (at this point I do not blame the dealer, he went by the book).

 

Well at least I have a 45kkm younger clutch in the car, and with my mods hopefully will last to 200kkm, after that I do not mind spending the money for a new clutch, if it will last that long it will deserve it . 

 

This is not a guide how to almost solve this issue, this is just my approach of dealing with it. The only other mod will be probably a stiffer dogbone mount in the future. For the time being I need to just drive the car from and to work, I am fed up with dealer visits, I need a break from dealing with the car.

[Jason_Nevins]

@all is there a way to have the tachometer showed digital so when i record a video it clearly shows the slipping?

[krigl]

Regarding tacho... Buy an OBD11 scan tool, it can draw graphs of various parameters, there you can clearly see that rpms rise against speed  increase.

The MFD does not support this.

 

On another note to a wondering VW DSG tech, that is maybe lurking in this thread, and also all other people...

To me, these slips are a sole product of SW behavior... WHY? a simple fact that I have noticed while this happens is, that all consecutive slips happen in 1 second intervals under load...and it is always the same... Has anyone noticed this? Probably not...

 

So I doubt that a mechanical clutch has ability co count seconds right?  

I just wanted to throw this bone to be chewed by everyone...

 

If they would quarter this period, so it would do it every lets say fourth of a second, I doubt that it would be noticed. (I hope that the DSG TCU has enough performance left so this could be achieved, but I doubt it, optimizing a nearly 100% utilized CPU can be achieved)

I think that they have implemented in the software a testing phase every second for the DSG to check how well the clutch friction holds. Obviously since there are thermal considerations in the material of the clutch that influence this, I think that they have forgotten to implement this situation. My natural instinct would be to offset the pressure mapping in regards to the torque bit by bit to achieve a no slip situation. It is obvious from observation that they clearly optimized the mapping to only a warm clutch material. The DSG SW can be learning (at least one bit), but it is obviously not designed to be.

 

Have a nice day...

 

P.S.

Why do I think that tuning companies do not correct or are unable to correct this... The DSG sw consists of three parts... Bootloader, Aplication, Data. Tuners can only change the Data part, where most of the mappings are stored, the Application part cannot be changed, since they do not have the source code, Bootloader is usualy not relevant here, since it is mainly used to boot up the TCU and make updates for example.

So if Application part algorithms is not designed to address this issue, no mapping in the Data part can correct these issue for  example. 

[Arghhhhhelp]

On 13/05/2018 at 23:15, Estate Man said:

Just a further quickie, I was out today in the Fabia and had several cold starts (one early morning after an overnighter), and a very substantial longer run taking in all road types with 5 folks in the car for much of the day. Pleased to report the clutches performed completely normally with no slip. Believe me, I tried to make it slip, but to no avail. The clutch is still bedding in but so far so good. I'm thinking the short burst of slip I experience the other night was purely down to the clutch not being bedded in. But we'll see...watch this space!

 

Krigl, thank you for the pm with the factory clutch documents. Very helpful.

Anyone know what clutch type is a fabia mk 1 estate 1.9 SDI 2000 reg??

[AGFalco]

29 minutes ago, Arghhhhhelp said:

Anyone know what clutch type is a fabia mk 1 estate 1.9 SDI 2000 reg??

Might be better asking in the Fabia MK I section.

Thanks AG Falco

[GeneralPurpose]

Ok, so since I had the clutches replaced and the other recommended gearbox tweaks, I've covered about 1000 miles. Not many I know in the several weeks since having the work done. But, I've been through the factory  procedure to check for clutch slip and so far so good. Nother bad to report, no slippage, no jerks, no judder...just a nice smoother ride! Early days...but looking good so far. Some folks have reported slip coming back quite soon after the new clutches have been installed so it's just an update for those that want to know. 

[Jason_Nevins]

I have already 3000 miles with the new clutch and i already had an appointment due to heavy slipping but it suddenly stopped. So i canceled the appointment, it still not perfect exmaple changing from first to second gear is not always smoothly and the slipping is very minimal but still there. The tempature in my area increased heavily so that might be a reason cant tell yet. I drive a touran which weights 1700kg maybe makes a difference too.

[Ootohere]

^^^ When was your Touran built, and since it has 180ps is this a 1.4 TSI Twincharger ?

If so a different DQ200 version and software.

[Jason_Nevins]

It was built in quartal 3 of the year 2016, i have a 1.8 tsi with 180ps and dq200 which is limited on 250nm very poor but was only option. rgds

[n1tro]

On 08/03/2018 at 17:04, krigl said:

Likely you will get the clutches fitted and it will be ok for some time, then it will slowly start again. 

 

I was told by the TVS dealer, that newer that clutch pack is the worse it will be, the sliping issue. 

 

I hope you will be the lucky one and get it fixed. But on the other hand I am also happy that finally someone that has such a presence on this forum can verify that others are not talking rubbish. 

Now that you have TVS software longer time, can you write more about it? How happy are you?

 

I've read on some forum from some guy that uses TVS that car is kinda angry about shifting 1->2 and 2->1? 

[krigl]

It is way better than original sw from vw. But you have also to make other mods for it to be almost perfect. It is basically trial and error. I have tvs gearbox sw stage2+, revo engine sw stage 1, k&n air filter, powerflex dogbone bush. It is drivable now ok. The slip is stil there from time to time, but small enough, that I can ignore. 

The 1st to 2nd gearchange and back is now more noticable, since first stays engaged longer and it doesnt ride the clutch in second at all. But if you are taking it steady, you do not feel it. 

 

For now I am happy, since vw doesnt want to improve anyway, this was the only way to improve the car to be drivable. 

[n1tro]

I must say,

 

i've been considering to make TVS Tune, but just because to make better shift points for higher gears (5-6-7) so i dosen't ride at low rpms all the time.

I didnt know they are making 1st gear longer now, and im not sure i would like that. That is only thing that is holding me to make retune. 

I hope car does not shake when he switches D2->D1 ? What happens when you accelerate to 0-10 km/h , release throttle, and then accelerate again? Does car jumps?

All these questions are because i know that DSG 1st gear is veerry short.

 I would really appreciate if you could make video with these actions because i need to travel for like 300km to make tune and i need to be 100% sure i want it:

• Light acceleration 0-20 km/h
• Deacceleration 20-0 km/h
• Light acceleration 0-80 km/h 

Thank you

[krigl]

The main problem that contributes to shaking are the engine mounts, which are too soft... so engine and gearbox gets knocked back and forward in certain situations, thous making the car "jump" as you describe. This is why I went for a stiffer dogbone bush, and I will probably stiffen up the gearbox mount too, when I will have time.

If you accelerate, let go and accelerate again to 10kmph the gearbox is still in first gear. If the car jumps or not it depends how rough you are on the gas pedal. The lurches are the same as in a manual gearbox. I have a manual car to compare, so from my experience it is the same now, since the DSG is not trying to shift in 2nd gear in the process.

 

For me to do a video on your list of demands, I think that it would not do the gearbox justice, since our roads are bad enough, that constant vibrations on video are present.

From what I have tested this morning with regards to your demands, all described situations are smooth, no jumping or shakes.

 

The basic idea is, if you are rough on gas pedal, than the gearbox reacts rough.

[GeneralPurpose]

Right, have covered over 2,000 miles now with the new clutches and so far, no sign of any slipping. In fact she drives just fine and is very smooth when changing. Just saying....

[Jason_Nevins]

I have all received a new clutch including the latest software at the end of April 2018. I now have 8000KM behind me and wanted to give a feedback. 

 

In the first 2 weeks everything was OK, but then the clutch slipped again every day and that extremely. I immediately arranged a new appointment with VW. But shortly before the date, it was minimally noticeable and had to cancel the date again. During the last months I have always experienced the clutch slipping in similar situations, with cold engine condition and incline. If the wagon was still loaded with several persons all the more. I also had to adapt my driving style to the car, since otherwise I could sometimes feel the gear change, I now always operate the accelerator very gently. My factory warranty will expire soon. I will make another appointment at a VW workshop and hope that the slipping will be visible then.

I don't think the clutch will work with all the slippery 100'000km and surely the abrupt gear change won't give the DSG any pleasure. I will extend my factory warranty to avoid any discussion.

 

regards

 

PS: Vehicle VW Touran 2016 TSI 1.8

[H@@S]

It is "good" to read that I am not paranoia about the noises/shuddering and other product characteristics displayed by the famous DSG7....skipping rpm on the clock ad making heavy noises. Everybody says I am to focused on them.....but I simply can not ignore!!! Selling a car with a problematic gearbox and buying a different one is a costly solution.

 

My story so far:

Owning a 2011 superb 1.8tsi DSG7 Station since may 2016 and since then fighting to get the issues resolved which I have with the DGS7. Starting to read at the time and got a bit scared by what I read. As a preventive measure I decided to have to SW changed to prevent wear down of the clutch caused by the stock software (shifting in low rpm and always depart in second gear). When visiting TVS they first measured the state of the clutches and I got the news that they were completely worn down. Went back to the stealer ship and after some discussion (did not recognize TVS as being a certified partner) they decided to replace the clutch under warranty.

 

When the car returned I had no time to update the software because it was just one day before my holiday. So with crossed fingers with a just replaced clutch I went on holiday with the caravan behind the car. Well it ran really fantastic without any issues at all. I was so pleased.

 

As soon as I returned I made another appointment with TVS to have the software replaced. On the big day the clutches were measured again and were rated "new". So the software was modified with higher clutch pressure better shifting points etc etc (DSG7) and the ECU remapped to 210HP/330NM. Things could only get better, at least that is what I thought. Initially it ran fine but as temperature dropped and humidity increased the slip showed its ugly face again. Contacted TVS again and made another appointment, when I arrived the DSG7 software was modified limiting the microslip time setting to reduce the slipping moments needed by the DSG. Took it back home again. Initially it seemed to have resolved the issue but after some time it returned again!!! Probably the time that the dsg needs to re-adjust the settings, besides that I noticed some other negative behaviour (grinding disks in high rpm 4500-5000 manual shifting). Called TVS again to have a look but they mentioned they, and therefore I, was out of options. After some discussion made another appointment to have another look at the case. Tested with stock ECU software (lower HP and torgue), seemed to dim the issue a little but found no breakthrough. I left with an intermediate tune (180HP) to wintersport. It looked and felt a bit better but not completely resolved again. After my holiday we made another visit to restore the tuning to 211 HP since there was no significant change and then I rather have some fun, at least what is left of it.

 

It seems to overcome the issue the clutch needs to be replaced AGAIN (just after 30k) with a very old type made of different clutch material. Stealer says sorry will not do. So seems I need to pay this repair myself. This material is normally subject to quick wear down but is resolved by the TVS software. Only downside is that this type of clutch is a rare model! Currently I have a clutch of a newer type that is more resistant to wear down (harder clutch material) but does not work well in colder/wet conditions. TVS also mentioned there is a NEW specific type of clutch designed for the northern Europe market (cold weather). They are testing in one car but do not have results yet since the weather is still warm at the moment. They did mentioned to have heard positive and negative reactions....so not a 100% fix either.

 

I popped the question if it is technically possible to have the DSG7 replace by DSG6 (because 1.8TSI 4x4 is also DSG6)....is possible but costly, but they are looking into this as providing it as a service. It is better to have a good reliable tranny instead of having to replace your clutch every time.  Seen the age and mileage of the car not a wise choice for me, will never get the investment back. Maybe if you have a younger lower mileage car it might be interesting.

 

I am at the point of giving up and buy something else because of this **** is not being good for your health.

 

For those in the process of buying a VAG car.....please....I sat PLEASE....leave the DSG7 (dq200) in the showroom, ignore it, walk away, don't look back!!! and go for a DSG6 wet clutch (2000cc and higher engines ) or manual......it is still cheaper to replace DSG6 transmission oil every 60k instead of replacing you clutch every 30k!

 

Somebody mentioned the choice between reliable/boring or less reliable/exiting car.....well at this moment I opt for the first choice!!! Please give me the most under appreciated Japanese car which is at least well engineered! Mazda6?

 

Will keep an eye on this thread so see if a breakthrough will be posted!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Not many of the millions on DQ200 built and sold 2009-2012 then 2012-2015 & 2015-2018 need new clutch packs at 30,000 km or even miles.

Of the 2,2000 DQ200 for 48 applications that skoda build each day how many are getting new clutch packs due to faults?

Edited 16 September, 2018 by Offski

[n1tro]

Offski, many people drive their "broken" (slipping clutch, plucking, etc...)  DSG even if they dont know it is broken. 

 

 

My buddy from work also has slipping clutch which i noticed, But he isnt bothered at all with that. He says car is good when it gets warm.

Edited 16 September, 2018 by n1tro

[Ootohere]

I know many drive and have no idea anything is wrong, or just keep going as long as they can.

 

But nobody is keeping driving long once the Clutch Packs have gone, or the Mechtronic Control Units does, 

so just how many do fail according to your guesstimations?

 

VW / Skoda keep building and selling them and people keep buying them.

Great when working and stupid putting up with those that do not and then being ripped off to pay to fix them when the manufacturers know the reason for the issues.

Sadly many are screwed & have no choice but to pay for repairs and parts and taxes on all that because in Europe VW rules and can take the Pith and courts and government agencies allow them to do that.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/293145-dsg-issues-or-even-real-problems 

 

There are non European World Regions where VW Group never got and are not getting away with Faulty DQ200 DSGs,

just as they are not getting away with dodge engines with Timing Chain Tensioner faults.

VW Will Reimburse Drivers in Faulty Engine Class Action Settlement.mhtml

Volkswagen Timing Chain Class Action Settlement.mhtml

Edited 16 September, 2018 by Offski

[xman]

https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Common-Faults-in-the-7-Speed-DSG-Automatic-Transmission