EV sub £30k comparison group tests.

[vrskeith]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/nissan-leaf-vs-vw-e-golf-vs-renault-zoe-sub-£30k-ev-group-test

 

[camelspyyder]

When they're sub £13k, I'll be interested enough to read it.  Never spent more than £13k on a brand new car yet.

 

Sub 30k is just not relevant to average people in a country where the mean household annual disposable income is in the 20's.

[Ootohere]

A VW Promotion article where AUTOCAR failed to be able to have the VW vehicle come 1st.

 

Am i missing something or do they actually show what was 2nd and what was 3rd?

Edited 1 April, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[lol-lol]

Trying to do the maths on this might need a new type of paradigm.    

 

Zoe ZE40 (41 kWh battery) and now with the 110 hp motor. Buy price £18.5K.   Five years 0% HP deal and with dealer/Renault stick in £1k as well so about £300 pm for the five years so a well subsidised deal.

 

Battery hire a bit of a painful out-going and I think needs the unlimited mileage rental band plus doing say 18k miles per year so that works out at about 7p a mile for the battery hire.

Charging the battery can be done for about 5p a mile I gather compared to fuel costs of around 10p a mile for the more economical of diesel or petrol cars.  Free to charge up at  work ie Heathrow.

 

Of course no road tax for the Zoe compared to about 1p a mile for a diesel or petrol car. Servicing apparently about half of what it would be for an diesel or petrol car so maybe another penny a mile saved there.

 

It is getting close as to whether it is cheaper to have an EV, at least a Zoe, rather than most ICE cars. Firms need to offer an electricity voucher system rather than fuel cards perhaps?   I would consider trading in my fuel card for say a 80% of electricity so everyone wins maybe.       

[Neo_VR]

On 03/04/2018 at 18:09, lol-lol said:

Trying to do the maths on this might need a new type of paradigm.    

 

Zoe ZE40 (41 kWh battery) and now with the 110 hp motor. Buy price £18.5K.   Five years 0% HP deal and with dealer/Renault stick in £1k as well so about £300 pm for the five years so a well subsidised deal.

 

Battery hire a bit of a painful out-going and I think needs the unlimited mileage rental band plus doing say 18k miles per year so that works out at about 7p a mile for the battery hire.

Charging the battery can be done for about 5p a mile I gather compared to fuel costs of around 10p a mile for the more economical of diesel or petrol cars.  Free to charge up at  work ie Heathrow.

 

Of course no road tax for the Zoe compared to about 1p a mile for a diesel or petrol car. Servicing apparently about half of what it would be for an diesel or petrol car so maybe another penny a mile saved there.

 

It is getting close as to whether it is cheaper to have an EV, at least a Zoe, rather than most ICE cars. Firms need to offer an electricity voucher system rather than fuel cards perhaps?   I would consider trading in my fuel card for say a 80% of electricity so everyone wins maybe.       

 

Some companies allow the cost of electricity to be reclaimed on expenses.. (although difficult to prove without additional hardware to split the chargepoint elec from the main meter)

 

I think - going forward with the smart meter rollout too, there are opportunities for "smart" charging equipment that can kick off the car charge as a function of controlling grid demand - of course its like a more modern version of economy 7.

Some small electricity companies are already offering something similar for "agile" energy use: https://octopus.energy/agile/

 

As for the savings if they fit your use case, then yes you will save money... hopefully the new WLTP range ratings should help clear up some of the confusion as the current NEDC ratings are even more pie in the sky than they are for normal cars and dont take into account a potential 25% range variance over the winter months.

by my (rough) calculations on my 330e vs Leon cupra on a single journey (commute) conservatively i will save £500 a year in fuel for that trip alone when done on in EV. And the monthly cost of the car is coming in less than an equivalent petrol-only model due to the lower BIK.

 

I think in 2-3 years time EV will be pretty much mainstream and there will be much more choice..  Geneva motorshow this year was all about rise of the EVs, with every manufacturer showing something.

[lol-lol]

22 minutes ago, Neo_VR said:

 

Some companies allow the cost of electricity to be reclaimed on expenses.. (although difficult to prove without additional hardware to split the chargepoint elec from the main meter)

 

I think - going forward with the smart meter rollout too, there are opportunities for "smart" charging equipment that can kick off the car charge as a function of controlling grid demand - of course its like a more modern version of economy 7.

Some small electricity companies are already offering something similar for "agile" energy use: https://octopus.energy/agile/

 

As for the savings if they fit your use case, then yes you will save money... hopefully the new WLTP range ratings should help clear up some of the confusion as the current NEDC ratings are even more pie in the sky than they are for normal cars and dont take into account a potential 25% range variance over the winter months.

by my (rough) calculations on my 330e vs Leon cupra on a single journey (commute) conservatively i will save £500 a year in fuel for that trip alone when done on in EV. And the monthly cost of the car is coming in less than an equivalent petrol-only model due to the lower BIK.

 

I think in 2-3 years time EV will be pretty much mainstream and there will be much more choice..  Geneva motorshow this year was all about rise of the EVs, with every manufacturer showing something.

 

Philip Hammond confirmed that electricity provided by a company would not be liable to Benefit in Kind in the last budget which is great.

 

If a company has only the 3 or 7 kWh chargers, which is fine in 7 kWh if one is going to be there for a half a day or more in most cases, 3 kWh a bit pants IMO, it is hardly worth charging for a would have thought  ie a quid or two.

 

If one was topping up a Tesla or the new Jaaaags with their 100 kWh batteries perhaps a bit more significant benefit and using a 22, 45 or 150 kWh charging point but even then we are probably only taking about a £5 or £10 charge cost which would add up if it was twenty or so days in a month.

 

Most users will continue to do most of their charging on their home 7 kWh chargers using overnight Economy 7 power at roughly half the daytime cost or perhaps use the free weekend electricity when they get home on a Friday night.

 

Icing, ie internal engined cars blocking EV charging points is still a massive issue and need parking wardens levying parking fine or perhaps a seperate car park area for EVs charging so ICEs can park there is they pack the double parking-charging.

 

We, Source London, can fit the charge points, almost a thousand in London and rising, but where I park ie Stanmore one see more ICEs in the EV charge-parking spaces than EVs.  7 kWh is fine if I can leave it there for a few hours.   The single phase 7-22 kWh are much cheaper to install than the 45 kWh and plus 3-phase charger than cost much much more as the tech to convert the 3 phase to single phase AC or DC for charging EVs is some heavy electrical gear.  London has 44 Boroughs compared to Paris unitary authority.  Would love a Jaaag or Tesla, we just need something in the middle between Leaf/Zoe and these luxury cars or the Leaf/Zoe to get the 60 kWh batteries which they will in the next year or so.   Estate version would be fine for the extra floor area to put the extra 150 kgs of battery.

           

[vrskeith]

This time from Autoexpress comparison review.

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/leaf/103136/nissan-leaf-vs-bmw-i3-vs-vw-e-golf-vs-renault-zoe

 

[lol-lol]

6 hours ago, vrskeith said:

This time from Autoexpress comparison review.

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/leaf/103136/nissan-leaf-vs-bmw-i3-vs-vw-e-golf-vs-renault-zoe

 

 

They did not test the new Zoe R110 with the Andriod connectivity and failed to mention that the new Leaf 2 has proved to to not have the range it was expected to have ie only 110 miles on some tests plus in cannot be recharged at full 45 kWh as the battery overheats.

 

I would rather pay less than £20k for a car (yes one has to lease the Zoe battery but that works out not so bad if one does 20k miles per year or so, than £30k for a car that does less range.  Zoe is due to get DC charging quite soon though I think 7 kWh home and 22 kWh are not too bad to live with.  Getting the petrol stations to have 10/20 minute chargers may be the game changer.      

 

 

[domhnall]

10 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

They did not test the new Zoe R110 with the Andriod connectivity and failed to mention that the new Leaf 2 has proved to to not have the range it was expected to have ie only 110 miles on some tests plus in cannot be recharged at full 45 kWh as the battery overheats.

 

I would rather pay less than £20k for a car (yes one has to lease the Zoe battery but that works out not so bad if one does 20k miles per year or so, than £30k for a car that does less range.  Zoe is due to get DC charging quite soon though I think 7 kWh home and 22 kWh are not too bad to live with.  Getting the petrol stations to have 10/20 minute chargers may be the game changer.      

 

 

 

yup if you look in twitter for #rapidgate you will see that Nissan is not handling the emerging story very well at all. They are hacking off a number of existing leaf owners and doing plenty damage to what I thought looked like a very promising model. 

[Ootohere]

Skoda / VW are going to have to get the e-Citigo and the e-Up! doing at least double the range of the current (lack of) e-Up!

More batteries and less gassing about what they have coming sometime maybe.

 

City cars for city use it looks like, unless you want to do miles more miles than necessary and sit outside Council Buildings, 

or Park & rides parked and not riding.....   Now Mobile Brothel Opportunities there surely...

 

[Aspman]

Used Zoe's about for £6-7k.

 

As a short range commuter it might make some sense.

 

https://www.mackiemotors.com/used-cars/8035394-renault-zoe-dynamique-intens/

 

Edited 30 April, 2018 by Aspman

[Ootohere]

^^^ Give them a roadtest, i have, they are fun.

You can have them even cheaper for cash money, not selling like hot cakes or even stale buns.

[Aspman]

22 hours ago, Offski said:

^^^ Give them a roadtest, i have, they are fun.

You can have them even cheaper for cash money, not selling like hot cakes or even stale buns.

 

If I worked in Forfar maybe.

 

 

[Ootohere]

This sounds so 'Simply Clever' being able to have people easily borrow a car for little money to see if they can suit their needs.

 

[Ootohere]

I have been checking out some Electric Vans again just to see what is available for using just for local runs, and running cheaply.

 

There are some around for much cheapness.   I need to find out more about how they are at this sort of age and miles.

example.

 

[Ootohere]

The one with the biggest battery should be @ £30,000 in the UK with the government grant.

The WLTP figures are good at 312 miles, but then it will be good to see what it does with 5 adults and luggage at any time of the year and how long to charge to full again to continue the same distance again.

 

Testing with 50KG bags of sand in each seat with a seat belt on and 2 bags in the boot would maybe be a better idea of how far they go and how they handle, brake, accelerate and how the ride is.

Then try with a set of Winter Tyres fitted as some might need if they are going to use in winter.

Then RTFM.

 

If you need to carry empty cardboard boxes you are as well to have them folded flat and get a few dozen in and be able to see out ther rear window.

If taking empty cases maybe put one inside the other, or get 3 or 4 22kg as ones as people going to an airport might have and another 3 or 4 10 kg ones and get them in with a spare wheel and tool kit..

 

 

 

Edited 27 July, 2018 by Offski

[domhnall]

On 09/04/2018 at 15:46, domhnall said:

 

yup if you look in twitter for #rapidgate you will see that Nissan is not handling the emerging story very well at all. They are hacking off a number of existing leaf owners and doing plenty damage to what I thought looked like a very promising model. 

 

 

hmm well that post didn't age well, here I am 4 months later with no Skoda and a 40Kw Leaf.

 

[Ootohere]

Not sub £30,000 but looks like it might be on the checkout list of those after a prestige EV.

 

[Ootohere]

Maybe Sub £30,000 slightly used.  Ex Demonstrators.

 

 

Just do it!

 

 

 

Edited 29 September, 2018 by Offski

[Ootohere]

 

 

[vrskeith]

I have one of these today, as an overlap whilst changing my UP GTi. Completing the paperwork ahead of the Friday 1st March rush (?) Time for a steady walk around the new car.

 

So will be an interesting couple of days.

 

 

Edited 28 February, 2019 by vrskeith

[Ootohere]

Let us know how you get on with the range from fully charged please.

& could you ask the Sales Person how much to drive away in a new one at the lowest they can get it for Cash Money.

And if a factory order on that day when can delivery be expected.

Maybe there are ones in stock or in transit, or in a few months the Demonstrators will be available. 

(could you ask how much that will be, the one they lent you?)

Edited 28 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[vrskeith]

1 hour ago, Skoffski said:

Let us know how you get on with the range from fully charged please.

& could you ask the Sales Person how much to drive away in a new one at the lowest they can get it for Cash Money.

And if a factory order on that day when can delivery be expected.

Maybe there are ones in stock or in transit, or in a few months the Demonstrators will be available. 

(could you ask how much that will be, the one they lent you?)

George,

 

Round trip for me to the dealer is about 50 miles ,interesting the salesman / his car said , 80 mile range - is that okay for you he said.?

 

I will see if he can answer your questions and I will feedback details and my experience.

Keith

 

Edited 28 February, 2019 by vrskeith

[Ootohere]

Cheers.

I took one for a little spin, NSL's and all that,  watching my license and it was after 30 miles i though better head back as i am going to be stuck out here in this lovely beautiful road where BMW etc come to test cars where there are no nosy neighbours.

Oddly other EV's get there and can do a good few miles of 'testing' and then get back with plenty of range.

Edited 28 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[vrskeith]

George,

 

Interesting demo /used on VW USED website - 99 currently 2017 -2019

 

Check it out.