New MOT regulations 2018 (vrs)

[Gt4thomas]

Been reading into the new regs and doesn't look good for diesels. 

 

The new regs mostly focus on diesels emitting smoke with a dpf in place or gutted. Where do all the dead dpf's go?, in the bin...? That's good for the environment.

 

So do we know if the mk1 vrs will need the entire egr system in place and the cat for it to pass?. 

 

Or is it time to trudge through eBay look for egr valves/cats (over priced sports cats). 

Edited 18 May, 2018 by Gt4thomas
Spelling

[JWvrs25]

Cats have always been a legal requirement for mot.

My argument is what happens when a car with a DPF regenerates and chucks out all the emissions then in one go. Cant be all that good for the environment either!

[rum4mo]

DPF and GPF are intended to "shed their load" out on the open road, so away from areas of high population density, but yes, NIMBY just dumping the crap elsewhere.

 

None of what gets done to clean up the air is good for the environment - it just makes money for some sectors and evens up or increases the overall negative effect on the environment, just the way it is.

[Breezy_Pete]

12 hours ago, Gt4thomas said:

do we know if the mk1 vrs will need the entire egr system in place and the cat for it to pass?. 

 

The test manual suggests that if either is missing, obviously modified or obviously defective it should be a 'major fail'. 

Depends what the tester can see without disassembly, I guess.

 

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-8-Nuisance.html#section_8.2, see section 8.2.2.1 (scroll down 2/3 of that document)

 

I've got a spare/unwanted used but clean ASZ EGR, if anyone wants it. PM me an offer.

Edited 19 May, 2018 by Wino

[Rustynuts]

10 hours ago, JWvrs25 said:

Cats have always been a legal requirement for mot.

My argument is what happens when a car with a DPF regenerates and chucks out all the emissions then in one go. Cant be all that good for the environment either!

 

DPFs reduce particulates only, and have no effect on any other emissions. To say they just chuck it all out in one go is perhaps dumbing it down a little too much. What they really do is store all the particulate matter (soot) and then burn it off at high temperature cleanly and efficiently (much more so than can be done on the fly).

 

Liken it to burning all your cardboard and paper at home. You wouldn't burn every sheet as soon as you've finished whatever you're doing to produce waste paper, you'd store it all and burn it in one go. When you do so you'd burn it at a much higher temperature and it burns much more completely and cleanly.

So what a DPF chucks out isn't just all the stored soot from the previous 200 miles driving or whatever, it's essentially much more oxidised and reduced. Otherwise every couple of hundred miles you'd get large clouds of soot and a dirty exhaust pipe (which doesn't happen).

[gav_is_con]

From what I have read a CAT removal is not a failure. However if the smoke test failed the missing CAT could be used as a reason. This is diesel cars.

Petrol use CATs too, not sure what would happen on their test. 

 

 

[Rustynuts]

Cat removal on a diesel is a failure.

 

Link.

 

If a diesel fails a smoke test then it fails for that reason. The tester wouldn't need to look for another reason why it failed.

[gav_is_con]

7 minutes ago, Rustynuts said:

Cat removal on a diesel is a failure.

 

Link.

 

If a diesel fails a smoke test then it fails for that reason. The tester wouldn't need to look for another reason why it failed.

That looks like rules from 2014, not sure if any stricter from the newer rules 2018?

 

I bought a used Golf TDi 2001 130 ASZ last year. So assuming it has been decatted, my opinion from noise and smell. It should have failed before I got it.  I hope this won't catch me out in July this year. 

[JWvrs25]

2 hours ago, gav_is_con said:

That looks like rules from 2014, not sure if any stricter from the newer rules 2018?

 

I bought a used Golf TDi 2001 130 ASZ last year. So assuming it has been decatted, my opinion from noise and smell. It should have failed before I got it.  I hope this won't catch me out in July this year. 

If its still visible then it'll be ok, no different to previous years when it should have failed on that. 

[JWvrs25]

4 hours ago, Rustynuts said:

 

DPFs reduce particulates only, and have no effect on any other emissions. To say they just chuck it all out in one go is perhaps dumbing it down a little too much. What they really do is store all the particulate matter (soot) and then burn it off at high temperature cleanly and efficiently (much more so than can be done on the fly).

 

Liken it to burning all your cardboard and paper at home. You wouldn't burn every sheet as soon as you've finished whatever you're doing to produce waste paper, you'd store it all and burn it in one go. When you do so you'd burn it at a much higher temperature and it burns much more completely and cleanly.

So what a DPF chucks out isn't just all the stored soot from the previous 200 miles driving or whatever, it's essentially much more oxidised and reduced. Otherwise every couple of hundred miles you'd get large clouds of soot and a dirty exhaust pipe (which doesn't happen).

Maybe, but i've been next to a car at a dealer having a forced regen done, 20 minutes at 1500 rpm chucking out white smoke and the stink of diesel is not very pleasant, cant imagine its great for the environment either

 

[Rustynuts]

1 hour ago, JWvrs25 said:

Maybe, but i've been next to a car at a dealer having a forced regen done, 20 minutes at 1500 rpm chucking out white smoke and the stink of diesel is not very pleasant, cant imagine its great for the environment either

 

 

Forced regens are a little different to normal running. Same as running on a flat tyre and throwing all those rubber particles into the environment is somewhat different to running correct pressures and getting 30k miles out of a tyre.

 

If there's a problem with a failing DPF which needs a forced regen then the problem isn't the fault of the DPF as such. The fault is how it got into that state, not the cure or remedy.

Edited 19 May, 2018 by Rustynuts

[JWvrs25]

3 hours ago, Rustynuts said:

 

Forced regens are a little different to normal running. Same as running on a flat tyre and throwing all those rubber particles into the environment is somewhat different to running correct pressures and getting 30k miles out of a tyre.

 

If there's a problem with a failing DPF which needs a forced regen then the problem isn't the fault of the DPF as such. The fault is how it got into that state, not the cure or remedy.

Yes I understand, but its having  a forced regen because it doesn't get a long enough drive often, and the dpf has blocked up, a common issue for people who dont do enough mileage in DPF equipped cars. Problem is, sometimes there isnt an option to have a petrol version of the vehicle therefore owners have little choice but to buy a diesel. 

[Rustynuts]

That's a problem with the driver, not the car.

[sepulchrave]

Indeed, I have never understood why low-mileage drivers buys diesels, ownership and service costs are much higher on diesels because they get clogged up from doing low mileages.

[JWvrs25]

Someone who needs a pick up truck or 4x4, torque for pulling things etc isnt going to be happy with a 1.0 petrol, not to mention the difficulty in finding a second hand one to buy as most people buy diesels. 

[Ootohere]

Plenty have pick ups or 4x4's or passenger cars with diesel engines, pre Euro. 4. or Euro 4, 5 or 6 and have no issues.

 

Some that buy diesels and have issues are just that, them having issues, wrong car, bad car, not suitable for their usage.

[sepulchrave]

11 minutes ago, JWvrs25 said:

Someone who needs a pick up truck or 4x4, torque for pulling things etc isnt going to be happy with a 1.0 petrol, not to mention the difficulty in finding a second hand one to buy as most people buy diesels. 

 

Come on dude this a Fabia forum, it's not for tractor drivers, we're talking small family hatchbacks here, and they're ALWAYS available with both engine types.

My big van is a diesel but my cars have always been petrols, there is NO NEED for diesels in low mileage family cars, they cost far more to buy and run than the equivalent petrol model, only fuel is cheaper because they do more MPG.

[JWvrs25]

52 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Come on dude this a Fabia forum, it's not for tractor drivers, we're talking small family hatchbacks here, and they're ALWAYS available with both engine types.

 

[wja96]

2 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

Indeed, I have never understood why low-mileage drivers buys diesels, ownership and service costs are much higher on diesels because they get clogged up from doing low mileages.

 

It’s 99.9% to do with company car drivers and Benefit in a Kind tax rates. You pay less BiK on a diesel. Diesels generally are more fuel efficient so companies like them because the fuel bill for high mileage drivers is lower and because residuals on diesels has traditionally been better (because private buyers want the good fuel consumption too!) the lease rates on diesels is lower so pretty much every new company car in the UK is a diesel. And all the ‘perk’ company cars tend to do 2-3 miles to the train station and back and they’re the ones you see having forced regens at the dealers. And the company car drivers don’t care because someone else is paying for it. 

[oliverreed2]

I had a egr blanked after a turbo was changed, I haven't a clue what will happen come MOT time

[Ootohere]

That will depend on if it visibly smokes out the tailpipe under testing and if the tester has been to Spec savers or the DVSA manage to get monkeys into every UK test station. 

Edited 20 May, 2018 by Offski

[oliverreed2]

The car isn't that smokey afaik, heavy test might prove otherwise though.

 

I'm curious if standard cars of any ilk might fail this test?

[Titanium_Man]

59 minutes ago, oliverreed2 said:

I had a egr blanked after a turbo was changed, I haven't a clue what will happen come MOT time

 

Had my egr blanked for many-a-year and not once had an issue with an MOT. 

[Rustynuts]

 

3 minutes ago, jars said:

 

Had my egr blanked for many-a-year and not once had an issue with an MOT. 

 

Has it been tested under the new MOT regulations though?

[Titanium_Man]

Fair point. In the coming weeks actually. Have spoken to my MOT tester and been told I’ll be fine apparently.