vRS TDI to 1.0 TSI

[Greenliner1]

Parked my race blue 2014 vRS Tdi DSG estate at the airport, got to the car hire at the other end, “can you drive an auto sir as we have no manuals available”, so I agree and I get a Skoda key given to me. Intreaged I arrive at the car park to one race blue 2018 Octavia estate (not vRS!).

 

I found out it was a petrol with the 7 speed DSG which in operation was very smooth and appeared just as good as my 6 speed wet clutch DSG.

 

The driving was very good, ride quality was much smoother than the vRS and it was so much quieter than the diesel burner. Ok it wasn’t going to set the world on fire but there was plenty of get up and go for the small number of overtakes I did. I looked up the spec of the car and to my surprise it was a 1 litre! I was quite expecting a 1.4 or 1.5 - I’m impressed. The economy to me was on a par with the Tdi, but it’s difficult to make a direct comparison.

 

Smartlink interface with my iPhone 6S was great for apple maps and taking calls. The screen was a vast improvement over my old Bolero though it did become confused once, and I had to reset the Bolero (holding the power button in) and it reconnected straight away

 

What did I miss, well not as much as I thought I would, the lane assist would have been nice on a long journey but some people don’t like it, I didn’t drive in the dark so I can’t comment on the new halogens, I didn’t miss the noise of the diesel and the silly sound actuator, and I’m glad the suspension was a bit softer or I would have put my spine through the seat on some more interesting Irish rural roads.

 

A couple of days and 300 miles later I was impressed. Would I have one instead of the vRS, Yes probably but I’d like a few more  comforts.

 

Anyhow I now have to put my device to flight mode and listen to the safety brief.

[ahenners]

Modern petrols are fantastic and I think a lot of people are waking up and seeing how good modern turbocharged petrols are. Diesel sales are down, petrol sales are up.

 

Diesel still has a place, but some of the smaller petrols are able to get decent fuel consumption figures, whilst providing far better refinement. Even the Petrol VRS can be frugal on longer runs, best I've seen is nearly 50mpg.

 

Sounds like you'd get on well with an SE L 1.5TSI DSG 

 

 

[Greenliner1]

Just landed.

 

Thanks ahenners, I’ll keep that in mind when I look for a replacement though  I’m feeling drawn to a superb 280 estate or perhaps a golf R, petrol it will be!

[logiclee]

Interesting comments on the ride quality.

 

A lot is said about the torsion beam setup and no it isn't as good as a independent setup for handling when pushing on. But on normal crap roads at low speeds I find a torsion beam Octy with 16/17's to be more comfortable than a VRS on independent sports suspension with 18/19's. Any gain that the independent setup gives to ride comfort is more than eliminated by the stiffer springs and lower profile tyres. 

 

The majority of VRS owners obviously will be more than happy to trade that comfort for handling. I did have a VRS on a 24 hour test drive but my wife said noway in the first 10 minutes due to the low speed ride.

 

Lee

Edited 23 May, 2018 by logiclee

[SashaGrace]

And yet I find the low speed ride on my vRS spot on in comparison with my previous Volvo and Audi. If I have one minuscule complaint about the car it’s that it could be better soundproofed to drown out the background noise.

[Greenliner1]

Hi SachaGrace, I think the ride is great on good roads but my if you hit a pothole it makes your teeth chatter! I’m really on the alert for them now, I’m not sure if there’s more or if it’s the vRS making me more aware.

 

I had the rear shock absorbers changed under warranty as it sounded like I had logs rolling round in the boot. I believe it was a common complaint with the golf GTD.

 

Anyhow if I’d had my vRS on the rural B roads of the Emerald Isle I’d have been going slower than the tractors in some places. Not just the occasional pothole but general unevenness ( a bit roller coaster like).

 

Anyhow Id forgot about the torsion beam on the 1.0S and it didn’t do a bad job, probably helped by the thicker tyre wall.

[Greenliner1]

I’ve just loaded up the boot and it reminded me of how soft the tailgate struts have gone, it drops the last foot or so under its own weight, on the new one it has to be pushed close. I see a quick replacement job coming up.

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, Greenliner1 said:

Hi SachaGrace, I think the ride is great on good roads but my if you hit a pothole it makes your teeth chatter! I’m really on the alert for them now, I’m not sure if there’s more or if it’s the vRS making me more aware.

 

I had the rear shock absorbers changed under warranty as it sounded like I had logs rolling round in the boot. I believe it was a common complaint with the golf GTD.

 

Anyhow if I’d had my vRS on the rural B roads of the Emerald Isle I’d have been going slower than the tractors in some places. Not just the occasional pothole but general unevenness ( a bit roller coaster like).

 

Anyhow Id forgot about the torsion beam on the 1.0S and it didn’t do a bad job, probably helped by the thicker tyre wall.

 

Yep tyre wall is the big difference.

 

I also have a Mk2 SE on 15's with 65 profile tyres, the suspension on the Mk2 is softer and so is the seating. It's great around town on our crap potholed roads.

In fact it's probably the set of keys that is most picked up for short journeys.

But chuck it into a corner at 60mph and it will protest severely.

 

In the past I've had Impreza's, Cosworth's and all manner of hot hatches and sports equipment but as the roads have deteriorated and got busier and average speed cameras cover most of my commute I find I'm looking towards vehicles with air suspension and armchairs.  

[Cakemonster]

15 hours ago, Greenliner1 said:

 

I looked up the spec of the car and to my surprise it was a 1 litre! I was quite expecting a 1.4 or 1.5 - I’m impressed. 

 

 

it was that engine in my wife's Q2 courtesy car that made me consider a petrol over a 2.0 diesel - 1.5 SE L now on order!

 

mind you the 1.0l triple does sound like my bike (bike has a wee bike more power though  )

[Greenliner1]

My last car before the vRS was an Outlander PHEV known as the “electric armchair” or the milk float by colleagues (white and electric)

 

Ultra quiet, very smooth but quite glacial in comparison. It wasn’t too bothered by pot holes but was a lot of weight to pull round corners. Boot was too small for a big car, but it was very comfy (seats not boot)

 

I was put off buying it at end of lease by the complex electrics and poor mpg on motorway driving, but I understand they are quite reliable and they are great for pootling round town in traffic in silence, I had many incidents of surprised pedestrians even though it has a sound generator below 20mph. This isn’t an issue with the oil burner.

[Greenliner1]

Following Cakemonsters comment I’m further surprised to find it was missing a cylinder! All the 3 pots I’ve driven before have all been rough as a badgers behind, and you were in no doubt they were 3 cylinder, this is the first time I hadn’t noticed and that says a lot.

 

I understand that they’re inherently unbalanced, so a lot of work must have gone in somewhere to make it this smooth. Well done to them.

[Cakemonster]

5 minutes ago, Greenliner1 said:

Following Cakemonsters comment I’m further surprised to find it was missing a cylinder! All the 3 pots I’ve driven before have all been rough as a badgers behind, and you were in no doubt they were 3 cylinder, this is the first time I hadn’t noticed and that says a lot.

 

I understand that they’re inherently unbalanced, so a lot of work must have gone in somewhere to make it this smooth. Well done to them.

 

'Characterful' I believe maybe the phrase, when referring to triples, especially when they're only lugging 350 kilos (me and the bike) 

 

I had to double check the specs on wifeys loaner Q2

[Swirly182]

Did you do any motorway miles with it loaded up? That's where our Qashqai 1.2 turbo struggled, we took it to France and averaged 34mpg for the trip with zero performance to enjoy. I would expect the 1L Octavia to be somewhat similar. 

 

I'm doing a France trip in the 245 soon so will be interesting to compare. My guess is the 245 will return more... 

[logiclee]

25 minutes ago, Swirly182 said:

Did you do any motorway miles with it loaded up? That's where our Qashqai 1.2 turbo struggled, we took it to France and averaged 34mpg for the trip with zero performance to enjoy. I would expect the 1L Octavia to be somewhat similar. 

 

I'm doing a France trip in the 245 soon so will be interesting to compare. My guess is the 245 will return more... 

 

My Sister in law has the 1.2 Qashqai and on paper it should be pretty much a match for the 1.2TSi Yeti which we have. But having driven it quite a few times now it doesn't feel anywhere near as lively as the Yeti and she doesn't seem to be able to match our Yeti's economy either

 

But both models suffer poor economy on the motorway due to their height.

We have a 1.2TSi Octavia also and on an 80mph motorway cruise the Octavia is a good 10mpg better than the Yeti and has more power in reserve.

 

Lee

[Greenliner1]

54 minutes ago, Swirly182 said:

 

Did you do any motorway miles with it loaded up?

 

Well it was only me and my hand luggage so not really, but I didn’t hang around on the motorways and larger A roads and it never seemed short of power. Seemed a bit more lively than the 1.2 TSI in my wife’s Yeti, but as logiclee says, those SUVs aren’t the most aerodynamic and the economy in the Octy was much better than I expected.

[Gerrycan]

@brettikivi in Finland reports better consumption at their higher summer legal speeds with his 1.0tsi than I would get from my 1.4tsi.

At slower speeds we seem about the same.

[MarkyG82]

Are you sure the 1.0 is a 'chopped' 1.2/4 and unbalanced? A 3 pot 120 Deg engine is mathematically the most balanced engine possible. Hence why a V6 is really smooth if designed properly.

[Greenliner1]

2 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

Are you sure the 1.0 is a 'chopped' 1.2/4 and unbalanced? A 3 pot 120 Deg engine is mathematically the most balanced engine possible. Hence why a V6 is really smooth if designed properly.

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s a cut down 1.2!

 

3 cylinder engines may be balanced but they rock end to end due to lack of symmetry and have less power strokes per RPM, a V6 will be much smoother or a V12 even better, however as I said all the 3 pots I have driven I knew straight away, but not this one till Cakemonster pointed it out.

 

I’m not an engine designer, but they did a good job getting it smooth.

[Mr Statto]

17 hours ago, Swirly182 said:

Did you do any motorway miles with it loaded up? That's where our Qashqai 1.2 turbo struggled, we took it to France and averaged 34mpg for the trip with zero performance to enjoy. I would expect the 1L Octavia to be somewhat similar. 

 

I'm doing a France trip in the 245 soon so will be interesting to compare. My guess is the 245 will return more... 

 

I've done quite a few motorway trips with four inhabitants (all but one over 10 stone) and there's plenty of performance & 55mpg. Doing a fully loaded trip (people + luggage) this weekend so it'll be interesting to see if there's any difference with a full boot too

 

And I would agree with the smoothness - I hardly hear the engine unless I go over 4,000rpm, and I very rarely need to do that

Edited 25 May, 2018 by Mr Statto

[Rodge]

4 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

A 3 pot 120 Deg engine is mathematically the most balanced engine possible. Hence why a V6 is really smooth if designed properly.

No, that's a straight 6 and V12 respectively.

[MarkyG82]

OK I'll correct my statement: A 3 pot 120 Deg engine is mathematically the most balanced engine possible for the minimum number of cylinders.

I agree a 6 or 12 will be better in either v or straight config.

 

@Greenliner1 I didn't mean to suggest that at all.  It's been quite common in the past for companies to 'chop' the end of an engine to reduce the number of cylinders and capacity.  The 1.4tdi is an example.  Tick over was very rough.

[SWBoy]

5 hours ago, Greenliner1 said:

I’m not an engine designer, but they did a good job getting it smooth.

That's what balancer shafts can do for you...

[Greenliner1]

I don’t think it has balancer shafts reading a golf write up?

[SWBoy]

6 minutes ago, Greenliner1 said:

I don’t think it has balancer shafts reading a golf write up?

That would be surprising, as the 1.0/1.2 in the Fabia 2 had balancer shafts - without them an inline 3 is normally very rough.

Edited 25 May, 2018 by SWBoy

[logiclee]

No Balancer shafts.

 

Highly advanced basic layout. The Volkswagen EA211 engine series served as the foundation for designing the new 1.0 TSI. EA211 refers to a family of advanced gasoline engines and incorporates both three-cylinder and four-cylinder engines. The EA211 engines made their debut in the small Volkswagen up! and progressively moved into car segments up to that of the Passat. Engine versions with 1.0, 1.2 or 1.4 liters of displacement—with or without turbocharging—are used, depending on the model series.

 

The engine in the new Golf TSI BlueMotion is the latest three-cylinder engine with turbocharging.

The engine’s maximum torque of 200 Nm is available from a low 2,000 rpm; this figure remains constant up to 3,000 rpm. 200 Nm is considered a top value for a three-cylinder engine. The engine provides 175 N·m (129 lb-ft) of torque to the front axle at just 1,500 rpm—one reason why this engine’s performance is so dynamic.

The turbocharged gasoline engine with its 10.5:1 compression ratio enables both cruising in high gear—thanks to the maximum torque being available at low revs—and quick upshifting from lower gears at higher rev levels. The turbocharged engine develops its maximum power of 85 kW/115 PS between 5,000 and 5,500 rpm.

Crankshaft group has low mass and low friction. The crankshaft group—crankshaft, pistons and connecting rods—is distinguished by low moving masses and low friction. The aluminium pistons and forged connecting rods were weight-optimized such that the 1.0 TSI can do without a balancer shaft. The total weight of the crankshaft was also reduced by 6% by reducing the weight of the crankpins.

Four counterweights reduce internal forces in the crankshaft, which in turn reduces loads on the crankshaft main bearings. Very small-sized yet extremely robust crankshaft main bearings and connecting rod bearings make a significant contribution towards reducing friction in the new engine.

Exhaust manifold integrated in cylinder head. Another very high priority item during the development phase was thermal management. The exhaust manifold of the 1.0 TSI has been fully integrated into the cylinder head (four valves per cylinder) and fitted with a separate cooling jacket to make the best possible use of exhaust gas energy during the warm-up phase and to cool the exhaust gases even more effectively at high loads.

On top of that, Volkswagen engineers designed a dual-loop cooling system. By using an additional thermostat, the coolant temperature in the cylinder crankcase is regulated to a higher level than in the cylinder head. This offers benefits in terms of internal engine friction, which in turn have a positive effect on fuel economy.

Cooling and heating. The base engine is cooled by a high-temperature loop with a mechanically driven coolant pump, while a low-temperature loop, powered by an electric pump, circulates coolant to the intercooler and turbocharger housing as needed. The passenger compartment is heated by the cylinder head circulation loop, so that it warms up quickly like the engine.

Small turbocharger. The design of the exhaust manifold enabled the use of a compact and lightweight single-scroll compressor with an electric wastegate actuator. This wastegate actuator performs the crucial opening and closing of the bypass valve very quickly.

In the low rev range, the bypass valve (also known as a wastegate valve) must be closed in order to drive the turbocharger with the full exhaust gas stream of up to 1,050 ˚C to ensure a consistent build-up of torque. Its maximum charge pressure is 1.6 bar. To reduce losses in the charge changing process in part-load operation, the exhaust backpressure can be reduced by fully opening the wastegate. The engine’s responsiveness is improved, because the wastegate actuator is able to regulate the pressure in the wastegate valve very quickly.

Toothed belt for valve train. Due to its design, internal friction in the small three-cylinder engine of the Golf TSI BlueMotion is already rather low. Moreover, this engine also benefits from the overall innovative design layout of the EA211 engine series and related measures implemented to reduce internal friction.

This not only relates to the crankshaft group, as mentioned above, but also to the valve control and auxiliary drives. The 1.0 TSI is equipped with inlet and exhaust camshaft adjustment; the adjustment range is 50 degrees of crankshaft angle on the inlet side and 40 degrees on the exhaust side.

By taking this approach, the designers of the three-cylinder engine achieve a powerful torque build-up at low engine revs and high power at high revs. The two overhead camshafts are driven by the crankshaft via a toothed timing belt. Compared to a chain drive, it exhibits around 30% less friction. Due to its high-end material specification, this toothed timing belt’s service life reliably spans the entire life of the vehicle. As a result, it is no longer necessary to perform the previously obligatory replacement of the toothed belt as a maintenance item. Overall, the harmonized forces of the toothed belt drive lead to low friction, improved fuel economy and greater durability.

Efficient combustion process. The maximum injection pressure of the 1.0 TSI is relatively high for a gasoline engine at 250 bar. Advanced 5-hole solenoid injectors, which are supplied with fuel from a stainless steel fuel rail, make precise injections into each cylinder with up to three individual injections per cycle. A more efficient combustion process with faster energy conversion is achieved based on the interplay of the injection components with a further developed charge cycle (optimized thermodynamics), in which the air-fuel mixture flows into the combustion chamber extremely rapidly via a tumble channel. Here too, this results in noticeably improved responsiveness and low emission figures.

Compact and efficient. The sum of many minor improvements have made the 1.0 TSI one of the most compact and efficient gasoline engines. As examples: To ensure that the engine takes up as little mounting space as possible, ancillary components such as the water pump, air conditioning compressor and alternator are attached directly to the engine and oil sump without additional brackets, and they are driven by a toothed belt running over a permanent tension roller.

In addition, the engine has a map-controlled oil pump that only draws as much power as required at the specific operating point.