Are people sticking with diesel or switching to petrol? I am currently driving a 2 litre diesel which is a great car but driving to work is only short journeys of about 15 mile round trips every day. I have a previous bad experience with petrol engines in a 1.8 TSI which had a drink problem! I can change it next year but it’s a bit of a dilemma about what to do. Diesel is now the devil itself but can you trust the petrol engines and also it comes with higher road tax I think although I may be wrong on that point! 

Active regens every hundred miles is what persuaded me to go back to petrol after a brief period (my briefest ever period of car ownership) with a 2016 2.0 TDI.

Went for a 1.4 TSI - as powerful and as fast on paper but load it up show it a hill and it's a different story.

You will presumably be looking at new cars so if you go for petrol you will have the added joy of a GPF. Lots of good arguments as to why this will be trouble free but I'll wait and see, to my mind it swings the balance back to diesel a bit.

 

Of course with regard to taxes, charges, fuel costs etc. you are trying to predict what your national government, local government, foreign powers and multi national corporations are going to do next - good luck with that.

Edited 23 July, 20187 yr by Octy0GG
minor change to wording.

Notwithstanding the anti-diesel rhetoric has become a bit over the top, if I were doing your sort of mileage i'd be seriously considering a petrol engine. 

 

Whatever fuel you choose, the government will think of a way to increase your taxes eventually. 

6 hours ago, Martskoda said:

Are people sticking with diesel or switching to petrol? I am currently driving a 2 litre diesel which is a great car but driving to work is only short journeys of about 15 mile round trips every day. I have a previous bad experience with petrol engines in a 1.8 TSI which had a drink problem! I can change it next year but it’s a bit of a dilemma about what to do. Diesel is now the devil itself but can you trust the petrol engines and also it comes with higher road tax I think although I may be wrong on that point! 

I would recommend you switch to the 1.5Tsi if you plan to stay with an Octy. We have this engine in a six month old Karoq (bought new) and it is utterly brilliant. Quiet, torquey, responsive and economical (averaging 44mpg with a best of 62mpg). It would perform even better in an Octy and of course petrol is cheaper than diesel. Regarding road tax it was £160 first year dropping to £140 per year henceforth.We used to run 2 diesels Octy and Superb but now have 2.0 litre Octy and the Karoq and we like driving both cars for different reasons but fun and refinement are excellent compared to a diesel, plus legislation seems to be only going one way when you need to drive in a city (take a bow London's Mayor).

All depends where you drive, how often and for how far and where you have to park your car. 

Loads carried and if you buy the car with the intention of keeping it or if you just rent it for 2 or 3 years.

 

Why buy a diesel for 15 mile round trips every day. Maybe buy a used Renault Zoe or Nissan Leaf for a few grand and then hire a car for longer trips or keep the ones you have for that.

^this. 

 

We have two petrols, each doing about 12k year. 

 

One is a Citigo doing a 24 mile (12 each way) commute.  The other a vRS doing the same but also covering family duties / longer trips / holidays. 

 

Love both of them. The 1.8 TSI was renowned for drinking oil. The 2.0 TSI seems better, although my vRS does use a little. 

 

Next cars will be a fully electric small car and a powerful petrol with room. 

 

I think the 1.5 TSI is probably the pick of the Octy range when taking performance and consumption into account.  

 

If I were you, I’d leave diesel behind. 

Edited 24 July, 20187 yr by dunc69

The government don’t know their ass from their elbow, let alone what they’re doing with diesel.

 

I’m in a diesel, with my PCP ending in Oct, I have considered handing it back but I’ve decided to keep it for another 4yrs or so. (Set myself the 80k mark before trading). Petrol is only about 3p cheaper where I live, factor in the mpg effect and it’s a negligible difference. 

 

I will be getting petrol next, but something fast and powerful, before the government implement the “no more fossil fuel powered cars” jargon. Until them I’m happy to pay the extra few pence fuel duty and avoid London for its congestion charge. 

With only 15 miles, a cheap EV is the way forward.

 

That's what I am doing. Nissan Leaf for 60 miles round trip commute and everything local. Then have the Octavia 2L diesel for long journeys. The cost of Leaf is 100% covered by what would have cost me in fossil fuel (£114 PCP + <£30 on electricity, free servicing, free charger install, no road tax). So essentially enjoying benefit of EV (silence, smooth, superb refinement, very easy to drive, cost saving) without any added cost.

 

In fact, the plan was to drive 8k miles on Leaf, 10k on Octy. But 9 months into my PCP agreement, we have already driven 8k on the Leaf. Not that it matters because we plan to keep the car, would cost us in total £9100 for a 3 yr old low mileage top spec Leaf. The electric car is just so much fun to drive, instant torque and never have to worry about cost of driving because a 60 miles trip is not £6 (plus engine maintenance costs), it's about £1.50 (and no maintenance costs).

 

Do I stick with diesel? No, I'll drive my Octavia into its old age (my upper limit is 140k, I calculate DPF will start to have problems beyond 160k) and switch to full EV family, preferably Tesla Model 3.

@wyx087 is that a lease on a new Leaf at £114 pcm. How much did you put down and what are the terms?

 

I have looked and they are rather more than that!  

 

Many thanks! 

I am going to take my own advice and get something to replace my petrol daily runabout with £220 a year VED that has only done 800 miles max between MOTs in recent years and less than 60,000 miles in 15 years.   So an EV will be fine.  (I have done over 2,500 miles on my electric bike in 12 months.)

Then my diesel is great at doing over 50 mpg on runs and not even 25 miles to the gallon if used for a week of short runs to the shops.

 

Started looking to see what there is around for 'much cheapness'.

 

18 minutes ago, dunc69 said:

@wyx087 is that a lease on a new Leaf at £114 pcm. How much did you put down and what are the terms?

 

I have looked and they are rather more than that!  

 

Many thanks! 

Just under 3 year old second hand Leaf 24kWh Tekna with only 18k on the clock. 3.89% interest. Car was £11k, switch scheme had £2000 deposit contribution, I knocked £600 off. So maths comes out as:

trade-in value £1000 + £114 per month for 36 months + final payment of just under £4000 = £9100 total, spread over 3 years.

Nissan PCP finance deal gives 2 free servicing, free 1 year warranty inc first MOT warranty and free home charger install. The 24kWh battery is warranty for 5 years, 60k and certain degradation.

So essentially just need to buy tyres and 2.4p per miles for electricity. After free servicing runs out, I'll be DIY servicing, no engine oil mess, only need to check everything every year. Every 2 years change pollen filter and brake fluid, meaning £50 every 2 years in maintenance.

 

Current battery health, at 3 years 8 months old: 90%. I expect 80-85% battery health at 6 years old mark, as evidence by 2011/2012 Leaf's. Probably ~70% by 10 years old, 50 miles of usable range, 25 miles radius from home.

 

Our use-case is either my 60 miles commute, or wife's local use, with nursery run coming up within a year. So even IF the battery degrades to 50% of its capacity (30 miles) when the car is 10 years old, the car is still a good local secondary car for us. Important thing to remember is that with home charging, the range of the car only need to be able to do one return trip, considering my wife doesn't like driving far from home, the Leaf will serve us long into foreseeable future.

 

For us, it was either Leaf (Zoe battery lease was a turn off as second hand purchase) or a Toyota hybrid (for its rock solid automatic, suitable for city driving), both costing the about same to buy. EV is a no brainer due to low running costs, compared to my single 10yr old Mercedes coupe, the two much newer car ownership only costs 20% more than before. We've discovered last-gen EV's are perfect primary car in the family, with a long range fossil fuel car on the driveway for those long journeys.

@wyx087 many thanks. Excellent work that man!  

 

I will investigate further. Running 2 petrol cars on a combined 48 miles commute (4x12 miles) seems so ‘last century’ now! 

What I forgot to add is, that I am also towing a caravan! Is that an issue with petrol engines? I presume most people tow with a diesel. Thanks for the advice everyone!

4 minutes ago, Martskoda said:

What I forgot to add is, that I am also towing a caravan! Is that an issue with petrol engines? I presume most people tow with a diesel. Thanks for the advice everyone!

 

I tow a box trailer, climbing wall trailer or caravan with my petrol superb. Its an excellent towcar, miles better than the diesel Volvo I used to use (borrowed from my dad who now also has a petrol towcar).

 

With modern low pressure turbos, petrols can generate plenty of low rev torque, much like diesels. 

 

The caveat is that I do have the 280ps petrol engine but I cant believe some of the less powerful petrol engines will be worse given their decent torque figures. 

 

 

I've just made the switch after 12 years with diesel, admittedly non dpf. 

My annual mileage hasn't changed, 9k, but my driving has.

 

Previously it was 26mile motorway commute with half a mile either side which would suit a newer dpf equipped diesel. Now it's an 18 mile cross country B road only commute up and down between 30-60mph. This wouldn't suit a dpf.

So a switched to a Tsi vrs.  On a lazy commute it will still do 41mpg.

 

I was paying 139.9 for diesel I'm now paying 127.9 for super unleaded, 122.9 for the 95ron stuff. So running costs I used to do 630miles a tank at 139.9 I'm now doing 420 at 127.9. I'll let someone else do the maths but for me I feel no worse off, pounds in it if anything.

My 20 mile each way commute with the old diesel (with dpf) averaged around 53mpg. The same after a week with the 1.5tsi is around 50ish (1000 mile average from calcs on filling up is 53, most on long motorway drives). Admittedly there's been no manky traffic to deal with this week which will affect it come September, but I couldn't ask for better (though appreciate a new diesel could do 60 in the same situation)

I switched from a non dpf 2l Skoda Octavia diesel to my current 1.4l Tsi Combi because my mileage and journey pattern now is not high enough to cater for regeneration in a new diesel with a dpf.

£30  road tax was an unexpected bonus.

Edited 26 July, 20187 yr by gregoir

I do 16 miles each way commuting in the countryside b roads and it's no probs at all with the dpf in 2.0tdi. No need to go petrol. I intend to keep it until 160,000 by which time I'm guessing electric cars will have come on a bit more, and not be small/impractical for long drives. Biggest cost hit is depreciation and the difference in what you can sell your car for vs the price you pay to buy a replacement! The winner when you replace a car is the dealer.

Edited 26 July, 20187 yr by amwphotos

9 hours ago, amwphotos said:

I do 16 miles each way commuting in the countryside b roads and it's no probs at all with the dpf in 2.0tdi. No need to go petrol. I intend to keep it until 160,000 by which time I'm guessing electric cars will have come on a bit more, and not be small/impractical for long drives. Biggest cost hit is depreciation and the difference in what you can sell your car for vs the price you pay to buy a replacement! The winner when you replace a car is the dealer.

Indeed biggest cost is depreciation. For my second hand Octy diesel, doing 10k miles, according to my spreadsheet, 27% fuel, 15% servicing and tax, 58% depreciation.

 

But what I've found is that I can afford to go one class better when switching to EV, at same budget. For example if fossil fuel car depreciate at £150 per month and fuel cost me £150 per month, I can afford to buy £270 per month BMW i3 (I was tempted by a 2016 BMW 0% deal) because electricity would only cost me £30.

 

So depreciation will become the biggest cost of ownership, but other costs are so small it allows you to spend more for a better car. It's definitely something to remember when seeing EV sticker prices.

12 hours ago, AlexBlue said:

My 20 mile each way commute with the old diesel (with dpf) averaged around 53mpg. The same after a week with the 1.5tsi is around 50ish (1000 mile average from calcs on filling up is 53, most on long motorway drives). Admittedly there's been no manky traffic to deal with this week which will affect it come September, but I couldn't ask for better (though appreciate a new diesel could do 60 in the same situation)

 

I think its important to highlight this.

Whilst diesels havent really advanced much in terms of fuel economy in the last 10 years (because most of the development has gone into emissions control), small turbo-charged petrol engines have quietly come along & can give diesel like performance with much higher mpg to the point where a careful petrol driver can easily reach diesel mpg.

29 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Indeed biggest cost is depreciation. For my second hand Octy diesel, doing 10k miles, according to my spreadsheet, 27% fuel, 15% servicing and tax, 58% depreciation.

 

I read an article in the Independent paper recently showing that the Octavia is the best performing car for holding its value with an average depreciation rate of 31% from new.

 

Link to article: https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/slight-dip-in-usedcar-sales-as-the-top-five-value-holders-named-37150429.html

 

 

7 minutes ago, lway said:

 

I read an article in the Independent paper recently showing that the Octavia is the best performing car for holding its value with an average depreciation rate of 31% from new.

 

Link to article: https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/slight-dip-in-usedcar-sales-as-the-top-five-value-holders-named-37150429.html

 

 

I find that hard to believe. Is that 31% the first year? Can't be, other cars are quoted 49%, half the price wiped in first year?

 

I bought my ~3.5 year old Octavia Elegance 2.0 TDI DSG for £8800, Looking on the 2013 broche with optional extra, the sticker price would have been at least £25000. Most cars depreciate ~50% over 3 years, this car has depreciated more than 64% over 3.5 years. Lucky for me  

Also worth noting recent analysis shows that EV's have insurance costs 60% higher than that of a ice car, which needs putting in your spreadsheet ;-)

Irelands used car market,

so rather different from the UK's car market because of tax/ VED etc.    

 

 

wyx087,

Cars bought 2014/2015.  As said in the article.

 

So has DoneDeal.ie  got the figure a Dealership would buy back a 3 year old car back for in Ireland, or what they say a Financed / Leased car is going to be worth after 3 years.

 

Is it the 'Asking Prices' of cars for sale @ 3 years old?  That is not always the same as what a used car sells for

 

Depreciation is the drop from what you buy for and can sell for.  Trade in values and other kidology of Lease Vehicles and Dealer / Manufacturers Contributions 

and the predicted values are a different thing.  How much to change a car is not the same as what you can sell it for and walk away.

 

PS

amwphotos, 

Where does this 60% extra on insurance for an EV come from?, it is not what i am quoted for an EV compared to the vehicles i insure now.

Have you been quoted 60% more to insure an EV over a ICE car?

Edited 27 July, 20187 yr by Offski

2 minutes ago, amwphotos said:

Also worth noting recent analysis shows that EV's have insurance costs 60% higher than that of a ice car, which needs putting in your spreadsheet ;-)

My Leaf and Skoda cost exactly the same to insure.

 

Admittedly the Leaf is of lower quality than Octavia and would probably be comparable to Nissan Note, which should cost slightly cheaper.

 

Either way, you can save £100+ worth of fuel by going EV. The money saved can either go into insurance or a better car.