Time's up VAG!

[lawnmowerman]

As I talked about in the thread "Gone over to the Dark Side" I am totally scunnered with VAG and the way they are treating their customers.

 

Many will think it irrational but I have had it with them.

My Fabia with DSG - how long will that transmission hold up? Forever? Or not. And who helps with costs out of warranty - it looks increasingly like not VAG.

 

My Yeti L&K. Will the DMF lunch itself and the transmission also? Will the Haldex succumb because VAG blindly refuse to recognise it has a filter? Will the Panoramic roof give me that much wished for indoor swimming pool? Will my style of driving exacerbate DPF problems?

 

So! Part one complete. Fabia gone - today - WBAC £1000 better than trade in value from Toyota agents.

 

This simplifies things somewhat - only the Yeti to consider as part-ex now. Looking at RAV4 Hybrid whilst values are on the floor because of the impending introduction of the MK V.

 

Irrational? Certainly. Therapeutic? Most definitely.

 

Funny thing is now that the Fabia is gone I can slow down and consider more carefully what to replace them with. And it may (or not) be a RAV 4.

 

Cheers - and thanks for all the wisdom I have gained from your erudite chatterings. It has been a pleasure.

 

Bill 

[alltorque]

Just now, lawnmowerman said:

As I talked about in the thread "Gone over to the Dark Side" I am totally scunnered with VAG and the way they are treating their customers.

 

Many will think it irrational but I have had it with them.

My Fabia with DSG - how long will that transmission hold up? Forever? Or not. And who helps with costs out of warranty - it looks increasingly like not VAG.

 

My Yeti L&K. Will the DMF lunch itself and the transmission also? Will the Haldex succumb because VAG blindly refuse to recognise it has a filter? Will the Panoramic roof give me that much wished for indoor swimming pool? Will my style of driving exacerbate DPF problems?

 

So! Part one complete. Fabia gone - today - WBAC £1000 better than trade in value from Toyota agents.

 

This simplifies things somewhat - only the Yeti to consider as part-ex now. Looking at RAV4 Hybrid whilst values are on the floor because of the impending introduction of the MK V.

 

Irrational? Certainly. Therapeutic? Most definitely.

 

Funny thing is now that the Fabia is gone I can slow down and consider more carefully what to replace them with. And it may (or not) be a RAV 4.

 

Cheers - and thanks for all the wisdom I have gained from your erudite chatterings. It has been a pleasure.

 

Bill 

Whatever you end up with, I hope your are as happy with it as I am with the Prius. I know it's early days for me, but it feels like it's actually well designed and built. 

 

Who knows, maybe see you on the Toyota forums, or Dark Side. 

 

Look out for Red 6.

 

travel safe, and happy.

Edited 6 January, 2019 by alltorque

[lawnmowerman]

Just now, alltorque said:

Whatever you end up with, I hope your are as happy with it as I am with the Prius. I know it's early days for me, but it feels like it's actually well designed and built. 

 

Who knows, maybe see you on the Tpyota forums, or Dark Side. 

 

Look out for Red 6.

 

travel safe, and happy.

 

Hadn't thought there would be a Toyota forum. If I do I'll be there!

 

Thanks for your good wishes. We roll the dice and hope for a double six - we'll see!

 

Bill 

[xman]

Well done, you finally broken the grip they had on you. Past reputation is not enough. Fear of the unknown has always held me back. Nothing to fear with Toyota except perhaps boredom. 

[edbostan]

I remember the ads of yesteryear promoting the reliability of Volkwagen. That was largely built on the robustness and reputation of the air-cooled Beetle and the simplicity of mechanics. Today engines and ancillaries are designed by engineers and costed by accountants resulting in a just-do product. Are the other makes any better when you consider that cars are only built to satisfy the first owner? The Roomster is my first VAG product and after 5 years is still making me smile.

Edited 6 January, 2019 by edbostan

[alltorque]

Just now, edbostan said:

I remember the ads of yesteryear promoting the reliability of Volkwagen. That was largely built on the robustness of the air-cooled Beetle and the simplicity of the design of mechanics. Today engines and ancillaries are designed by engineers and costed by accountants resulting in a just-do product. Are the other makes any better when you consider that cars are only built to satisfy the first owner?

At least with Toyota you get a 5 year/100k mile full factory warranty...transferable to second etc owners, which suggests a certain level of manufacturer confidence in their product. And, of course, their Hybrids have been around for 20 years/10 million units with solid evolution. Yeah, I know, nothing worse than a convert.  I'm as smitten with my Prius as I was with my Mk 1 Fabia vRS, and thst is high praise from me.

[edbostan]

I was only talking to my brother-in-law about no bad press about the Prius since its launch. A bad reputation spreads quicker than a good one and the Prius although scorned by Jeremy Clarkson has ridden the storm. My daughter learnt to drive in an Auris Hybrid automatic and would like to own one - pricey at the moment.

[lawnmowerman]

When I was After-sales manager of the largest VAG group in Europe you could cut me and it would be like a stick of Blackpool rock (only VAG). Eventually in my career I washed up in a Nissan dealership. The contrast was marked and the scales fell from my eyes. At that point Nissan were far ahead of VAG. It was revelatory.

 

However, i did still like VAG products personally owning many (rather than them just being company cars).

 

Way back then VAG were still not as good as they thought. We had persisting problems with Bosch K Jetronic injection and eventually we had engineers over from Germany. They said it was the fuel sold in the UK. Not reaching the octane it should. My simple question was that if they knew that why did they not design their systems to run on the octane they knew was being sold. The silence was deafening. Of course it was just a smoke screen and we kept firing in the warranty claims until the issue resolved itself.

 

Seems a Leopard can't change its spots.  

 

Bill 

[xman]

With a multi billion dollar/euro liability after dieselgate plus other worldwide issues, Chinese market collapsing, no end in sight, belts will be tightened and those who they know can be screwed (the UK) will be well and truly rodded and just blame it on Brexit.

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45803013

 

[FlyingSpanner]

G

Edited 9 January, 2019 by FlyingSpanner

[xman]

I think the OP was talking about VAG after sales attitude towards the customer. I don't think Toyota would fight against warranty/goodwill claims in the way Skoda seem to be doing of late. Anecdotally, they often extend generous goodwill beyond their 5 yr warranty period particularly if there is evidence of a known problem.

[lawnmowerman]

19 minutes ago, xman said:

I think the OP was talking about VAG after sales attitude towards the customer. I don't think Toyota would fight against warranty/goodwill claims in the way Skoda seem to be doing of late. Anecdotally, they often extend generous goodwill beyond their 5 yr warranty period particularly if there is evidence of a known problem.

 

Correct XMAN. Lets hope it continues - better still not required.

 

Bill 

[widdershins]

I hope you get something you like, if you do go for the Rav 4 hybrid I hope you pop back and let us know how you get on with it.

TBH I feel most manufacturers have issues. My last few cars were: Renault 5 - leaked like a sieve, ate front disks at a startling rate, NEVER started in the morning in a hard winter (-7 or lower) until a fan heater had been shoved in the engine bay for 15 mins; Vauxhall Nova - generally ok except for the rust (moved it on as it'd fail the next MOT since it needed a ton of wielding), Citreon Xantia - great until the uncoated steel hydraulic pipes rust through then the whole lot goes at once and costs a fortune in labour and parts to fix; ford focus - injectors, aircon, electric mirror, front heated windscreen, etc.; Fabia - not a lot, some minor rust on the tailgate around the numberplate lights when I sold it on at 142k

So that's partly why I've got a Yeti, Fabia stayed reliable and Yeti got a lot of good reviews. I looked at a Dacia duster, but the legroom for the driver was about 2-3 inches less than comfortable for me, Yeti had the space, but I'm not wedded to Skoda or VAG which is why I'm interested in hearing about your next choice. I'm expecting that in 5 or so years when I move the Yeti on I'll be giving consideration to an EV or hybrid so any insights/comparisons from someone moving from a Skoda will be welcome.

[rum4mo]

I'm not wedded to VW Group either, I do own VCDS though, and that helps a bit!  I am willing to be one of VW Group's best customers or their worst, depending on how things pan out.

 

What I have spotted recently, especially on the VW Polo forum, is that there are quite a lot of people who have moved across to VW from other marques and they seem to need to protect that decision and simply will not tolerate anyone who is being realistic or objective about how things have panned out after making a second or third VW Group purchase - but that is how it is, I think that most of us on these VW Group forums who are complaining are just speaking our minds over being disappointed with the way that VW Group or their agents are treating our money and trust that we have put in them.

 

Edit:- it is almost like VW AG has sold off all its design and manufacturing units and is hiring out its "names" to any 3rd world companies or shark financial groups to flog gullible members of the public with "almost cars" - it seems to be working, but for how long?

Edited 7 January, 2019 by rum4mo

[Yetiherts]

Latest BBC news car sales are down mostly due to Brexit (Normal BBC bias against Brexit) and manufacturers not being able to supply.  VAG group seem to be effected more than any other.  I have put on earlier posts the disappointment my Wife has had with having to wait over 7 months for a new Fabia (now cancelled good or bad she is buying a Ford) She did get a bit out of her tree and sent a letter to the UK Skoda Boss Man reply below.

 

 

[skomaz]

15 hours ago, lawnmowerman said:

 

My Fabia with DSG - how long will that transmission hold up? Forever? Or not. And who helps with costs out of warranty - it looks increasingly like not VAG.

 

My Yeti L&K. Will the DMF lunch itself and the transmission also? Will the Haldex succumb because VAG blindly refuse to recognise it has a filter? Will the Panoramic roof give me that much wished for indoor swimming pool? Will my style of driving exacerbate DPF problems?

 

So! Part one complete. Fabia gone

 

This simplifies things somewhat - only the Yeti to consider as part-ex now.

 

 

Sounds like a hell of a lot of upheaval based on a possible worst case outcome that hasn't (and may never) happen in your ownership of the two Skoda's?...

 

But if you have the financial where-with-all to change for such a reason and it lets you rest at night safe in the knowledge that you've jumped ship to another marque that may or may not also have problems then so be it...

[lawnmowerman]

Part two swings into action. Yeti will be gone next week when I collect my new RAV4. Managed to get the dealers offer increased by £950 such is the competition for deals in the Trade at the moment - and the volume of RAV4's on the market with the impending arrival of the new car.

 

Design spec. AWD, metallic paint, upgraded alloys as well as standard spec. fittings. Saving over £6K as it is run out model. Checked deals on latest 5th generation due April but they have taken a lot of kit off the Design to keep the price the same. To get heated seats for example would need to go up to Excel spec. and over £3k. Not worth an extra £3k just so I had a warm bum. 0% APR was being offered on 2 year PCP deal for the new car.

 

Now need to put retained number plate on retention until new car collected.

 

The pull of VAG products is still very strong for me and I found myself grazing round some of their offerings but definitely wanted to avoid diesel. I kept coming round to the new 1.5 litre petrol variants but given all the negative reports on that engine it was a no go. Given all my misgivings about their customer support post warranty I still like their products and am so angry that they have frozen me out (my feelings).

 

Irrational? probably. Let's hope Toyota live up to the expectations. 

 

Cheers, Bill 

 

[GeneralPurpose]

15 hours ago, FlyingSpanner said:

Doesn't matter which manufacturer you go for, they all have their issues,  Toyota has had some very well covered safety recalls with braking issues.

Do you think VW is the only manufacturer to be affected by emissions? They all use the same fuel systems from Bosch Delphi etc seems strange that BMW etc have not used it as a selling point over VW Group?  Independent emission tests have found Peugeot Citroen group to be the worst.

The Jap stuff is not as reliable as it used to be, same with all manufacturers when you start adding goodies which sell cars. Good luck!  

 

It isn't the fuel systems they use that dictates whether there is an emissions scandle. It's the software used to power it. It differs from manufacturer to manufacturer even though the injection system and ecu might be the same. They can write their own add ons to suit their engines. In fact, several manufacturers have been caught out evading the emissions standards, but owning up early has seen them get away with it. Although, I don't think any of them wandered from the straight and true like VAG did. 

[GeneralPurpose]

lawnmowerman, I completely feel for you. You explained your feelings very well. I feel the same. I'm angry with VAG. I feel like I have been shafted. Really wanted to settle down with my last Fabia Mk3 even though I had fallen out of love with it's looks. But that was not to be. 

 

I really wish you well with your RAV4. That's a good choice. 

 

All manufacturers have issues, that's a given. But VAG seem to be on a downward slide in my book judging from the real life people I know that are having constant issues with their cars. That's aside from the folks on here. In around 5 years time, VAG will again be a group to trust, but until then, I'm remaining suspicious of how they are designing and building their cars. 

[lawnmowerman]

10 minutes ago, Estate Man said:

lawnmowerman, I completely feel for you. You explained your feelings very well. I feel the same. I'm angry with VAG. I feel like I have been shafted. Really wanted to settle down with my last Fabia Mk3 even though I had fallen out of love with it's looks. But that was not to be. 

 

I really wish you well with your RAV4. That's a good choice. 

 

All manufacturers have issues, that's a given. But VAG seem to be on a downward slide in my book judging from the real life people I know that are having constant issues with their cars. That's aside from the folks on here. In around 5 years time, VAG will again be a group to trust, but until then, I'm remaining suspicious of how they are designing and building their cars. 

 

Yes, having semi-retired I thought the Yeti L&K would have been a keeper. I loved it. I really have better things to do with my hard-earned readies than to start buying another car but heh-ho, it is what it is. If I go back 10 - 15 years I wouldn't have been able to change and the Yeti would have had to run its course for good or bad.

 

But, not to be. Thanks for your good wishes and I hope Citroen continue to do a job for you.

 

Cheers, Bill 

[xman]

17 minutes ago, Estate Man said:

lawnmowerman, I completely feel for you. You explained your feelings very well. I feel the same. I'm angry with VAG. I feel like I have been shafted. Really wanted to settle down with my last Fabia Mk3 even though I had fallen out of love with it's looks. But that was not to be. 

 

I really wish you well with your RAV4. That's a good choice. 

 

All manufacturers have issues, that's a given. But VAG seem to be on a downward slide in my book judging from the real life people I know that are having constant issues with their cars. That's aside from the folks on here. In around 5 years time, VAG will again be a group to trust, but until then, I'm remaining suspicious of how they are designing and building their cars. 

 

For Estateman to say this must be a real indictment on how bad things must have got for him with Skoda. He is a long standing Briskoda member of many years, I remember how fervently he used to defend Skoda when I made any criticism. I will always respect his opinion, I believe he is an ex tech with engine design experience and so is far more qualified than many to make comments.

 

 

 

 

[lawnmowerman]

As I am semi-retired there is logic & rationale to this saga.

 

Firstly, change now whilst I can afford it rather than wait for a big problem (which may not happen) and leave me compromised when I am fully retired.

 

Secondly, given a fair wind and reasonable health, I hope to get many years use of it and then when I can't at least my son-in-law will get a fairly current hybrid without any penalties using an old school diesel ( well Euro 6 diesels will be old school by then!).

 

Bill 

[alltorque]

5 hours ago, lawnmowerman said:

Part two swings into action. Yeti will be gone next week when I collect my new RAV4. Managed to get the dealers offer increased by £950 such is the competition for deals in the Trade at the moment - and the volume of RAV4's on the market with the impending arrival of the new car.

 

Design spec. AWD, metallic paint, upgraded alloys as well as standard spec. fittings. Saving over £6K as it is run out model. Checked deals on latest 5th generation due April but they have taken a lot of kit off the Design to keep the price the same. To get heated seats for example would need to go up to Excel spec. and over £3k. Not worth an extra £3k just so I had a warm bum. 0% APR was being offered on 2 year PCP deal for the new car.

 

Now need to put retained number plate on retention until new car collected.

 

The pull of VAG products is still very strong for me and I found myself grazing round some of their offerings but definitely wanted to avoid diesel. I kept coming round to the new 1.5 litre petrol variants but given all the negative reports on that engine it was a no go. Given all my misgivings about their customer support post warranty I still like their products and am so angry that they have frozen me out (my feelings).

 

Irrational? probably. Let's hope Toyota live up to the expectations. 

 

Cheers, Bill 

 

Well done, Sir. I hope you'll be as happy with your Toymota as I am with mine...and SWMBO is with hers, 18 months down the road. 

 

RAV 4 is an excellent choice.  Enjoy.

[FlyingSpanner]

G

 

 

 

Edited 9 January, 2019 by FlyingSpanner

[FlyingSpanner]

G

Edited 9 January, 2019 by FlyingSpanner